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26CornerBlitz

Inside the Film Room with McDermott and Tasker

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On second and third looks, yeah he was off.

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1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Why would DiMarco break outside on a wheel route? 

Maybe he ran the wrong route?

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Which is not an outbreaking route.

If that is the case then Josh Allen through the wrong area......it might not have been a accuracy issue

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1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Maybe he ran the wrong route?

If that is the case then Josh Allen through the wrong area......it might not have been a accuracy issue

 

Allen misses throws. It's something he does on occasion.  This is not that hard John.

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KC ran the same wheel route to their FB against LA in week 1 and I'm betting that Daboll saw this on film which led to the play being called for the Bills.  Mahomes makes a great throw to Sherman unlike that from Allen.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

KC ran the same wheel route to their FB against LA in week 1 and I'm betting that Daboll saw this on film which led to the play being called for the Bills.  Mahomes makes a great throw to Sherman unlike that from Allen.

 

 

 

Look at Mahomes' game against the Chargers.  Loads of off-target passes his receivers need to adjust to catch.

 

 

 

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Just now, Doc said:

Look at Mahomes' game against the Chargers.  Loads of off-target passes his receivers need to adjust to catch.

 

Put the haterade down and step away slowly.   :unsure:

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2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Put the haterade down and step away slowly.   :unsure:

 

No haterade, just the facts. 

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Just now, Doc said:

 

No haterade, just the facts. 

 

You mean facts like 582 yards with 69.1 completion %, 10 TDs and 0 INTs? 

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Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

You mean facts like 582 yards with 69.1 completion %, 10 TDs and 0 INTs? 

 

LOL!  Great argument there 26.  We can wait to revisit this thread in a year's time, m'kay?

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Just now, Doc said:

 

LOL!  Great argument there 26.  We can wait to revisit this thread in a year's time, m'kay?

 

Looking forward to it and I hope the Bills give Allen the same kind of supporting cast that Mahomes has to set him up for success. 

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1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Looking forward to it and I hope the Bills give Allen the same kind of supporting cast that Mahomes has to set him up for success

 

On that we can both agree and I have no doubt they'll try.

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4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

As I relook at the throw to Demarco.....

 

Notice where Josh throws that ball?   To me it looks like he is trying to "lead" the fullback to catch the ball closer to the sideline and away from the defender that is screaming up on Demarco from the other side.......

 

Could the pass has been thrown better?   Yes it could but I understand the concept.....this may have been a poor route by Demarco....as if he is closer to the sideline he might score here.......

 

I had the same thought, that Allen was expecting DiMarco to run a bit closer to the sideline on his "wheel" before turning upfield.  It looked to me as though Dimarco was still in the "curve" of the wheel when Josh threw so Allen see and adjust for that.   Allen had time and it looked to me as though his feet and hips are correctly set and the ball is going where he intends it to go - but I acknowledge that I can't always see the technique flaw that Palmer calls out as leading to inaccuracy.

 

Great adjustment and focus by Dimarco anyway, good to see.

 

4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

No need to rationalize or make excuses for Allen. It was an inaccurate throw to a wide open DiMarco that prevented YAC.   

 

You really don't know that, CB.  What you know is that DiMarco had to adjust on the ball.  Whether that's because he didn't run the route as Allen expected, or because Allen's pass was off target, there's not too much way to tell - except that in other passes in this game, I can see whether or not the pass will go where Allen intends it to by his feet and hips, and they look pretty good on this throw.

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6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I had the same thought, that Allen was expecting DiMarco to run a bit closer to the sideline on his "wheel" before turning upfield.  It looked to me as though Dimarco was still in the "curve" of the wheel when Josh threw so Allen see and adjust for that.   Allen had time and it looked to me as though his feet and hips are correctly set and the ball is going where he intends it to go - but I acknowledge that I can't always see the technique flaw that Palmer calls out as leading to inaccuracy.

 

Great adjustment and focus by Dimarco anyway, good to see.

 

You really don't know that, CB.  What you know is that DiMarco had to adjust on the ball.  Whether that's because he didn't run the route as Allen expected, or because Allen's pass was off target, there's not too much way to tell - except that in other passes in this game, I can see whether or not the pass will go where Allen intends it to by his feet and hips, and they look pretty good on this throw.

 

Allen misses touch throws like this far too frequently with his receivers having to make adjustments.  It's not atypical for him. 

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5 hours ago, Luka said:

Kid has a long way to go. I don't really care for the coaching staff telling him to tone down some of those throws, I think that's a big part of his inaccuracy, at least in that game, he's thinking about how hard he should throw it. Fire that **** in there, these receivers need to catch it.

 

I also loved the "if we had one more block, Ivory scores" as Benjamin gives the most pathetic attempt to block I've ever seen.

 

Allen has to do something on the short throws, Luka.  They're a place where he's been consistently inaccurate in college and through the spring.  It's not just how hard he throws, it's that the ball hangs up high and the receiver has to jump for it.  That's deadly to YAC.  I thought it was positive that Allen seemed on-point in a lot of his short passes to McCoy in this game.  The pass to Murphy was probably about the worst, and typical of what I saw at the combine and his pro day, but Allen was on the run and didn't re-set.

 

Benjamin.  That wasn't the only whiff.  There was a pass to (I think) Shady where if Benjamin made an honest effort to block, Shady could have logged some big yards, but he made a whiff that approached the Ivory rush non-block in lack of effort.

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Allen misses touch throws like this far too frequently with his receivers having to make adjustments.  It's not atypical for him. 

 

Yes, Allen is inaccurate sometimes, but that's not particularly a "touch throw" there, and it doesn't seem to be sailing on him the way (for example) Allen's earlier pass to Murphy did (that was an example of a touch pass that Allen missed on, though I think a better receiver than Murphy could have got it).  Just because Allen does make inaccurate throws sometimes, doesn't mean that you can look at a pass the receiver must adjust to and definitively say it's on Allen at all times.

 

That didn't look like a clean wheel route to me.  You posted a .gif of a wheel route thrown by Mahomes.  If you look, you can see the KC fullback makes a rounder curve and winds up closer to the sideline, the way wheel routes are usually diagrammed on whiteboard.  It looks to me like DiMarco shallowed the curve and started looking back too soon which slowed him.  Just my opinion, and worth the powder to blow it to h likely.

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26 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Allen has to do something on the short throws, Luka.  They're a place where he's been consistently inaccurate in college and through the spring.  It's not just how hard he throws, it's that the ball hangs up high and the receiver has to jump for it.  That's deadly to YAC.  I thought it was positive that Allen seemed on-point in a lot of his short passes to McCoy in this game.  The pass to Murphy was probably about the worst, and typical of what I saw at the combine and his pro day, but Allen was on the run and didn't re-set.

 

Benjamin.  That wasn't the only whiff.  There was a pass to (I think) Shady where if Benjamin made an honest effort to block, Shady could have logged some big yards, but he made a whiff that approached the Ivory rush non-block in lack of effort.

 

Yes, Allen is inaccurate sometimes, but that's not particularly a "touch throw" there, and it doesn't seem to be sailing on him the way (for example) Allen's earlier pass to Murphy did (that was an example of a touch pass that Allen missed on, though I think a better receiver than Murphy could have got it).  Just because Allen does make inaccurate throws sometimes, doesn't mean that you can look at a pass the receiver must adjust to and definitively say it's on Allen at all times.

 

That didn't look like a clean wheel route to me.  You posted a .gif of a wheel route thrown by Mahomes.  If you look, you can see the KC fullback makes a rounder curve and winds up closer to the sideline, the way wheel routes are usually diagrammed on whiteboard.  It looks to me like DiMarco shallowed the curve and started looking back too soon which slowed him.  Just my opinion, and worth the powder to blow it to h likely.

 

Look at the way Zay runs the wheel route here.  Nowhere near the sidelines the same as DiMarco. 

 

 

Edited by 26CornerBlitz

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4 hours ago, Rew said:

Allen's arm was in motion when the receiver's back was still to him with no commitment inside or out.  The throw was spot on for an outside break.  There was no accuracy problem on this throw, it was a miscommunication.   It is impossible for us to know if Allen read it wrong or if DiMarco did.  It still could be Josh's mistake, but it certainly isn't due to accuracy.  Personally, I would think the outside break was correct given the coverage. 

 

To my understanding, there isn't an in-or-out break on a wheel route.  The receiver should initially run a curve (like a wheel), then run up the sideline.

I think DiMarco didn't quite run the route Allen was expecting, but it wasn't a break miscommunication, I think he cut the corner on the curve of his wheel  so he wasn't as close to the sideline as expected, then because of that started looking back for the ball too soon (so he slowed).  But that's just my opinion.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Look at the way Zay runs the wheel route here.  No where near the sidelines the same as DiMarco. 

 

 

 

That's not quite correct, CB.  If you look in the QB Film Room at 2:25, you'll see that DiMarco is on the numbers when he starts turning to look back, and turns upfield when he's about 1/3 of the way toward the sideline from the numbers.  The ball shows up more like 2/3 of the way to the sideline and Dimarco has to adjust for it.

 

If you look at the way Zay runs that wheel route, he makes a nice round curve.  He is about 2/3 of the way to the sideline when he turns to look for the ball (nice route) and has to adjust inward toward the numbers to make the grab.  Here's a shot from the all-22, compare where he is when he turns and looks with QBFR at 2:25 where DiMarco is on the numbers.

 

image.thumb.png.e21fade5e0b6356890fbc2f85b6726f1.png


The throw from Allen IS an inaccurate throw and Zay has to make a big adjustment for it, good job on Zay.  If you look at Allen's foot and hip position when he throws (it's hard to see on Cover1's gif, easier on the All-22), you can tell that the throw is going to be inaccurate because he rolled out of the pocket and re-set poorly - his foot is not aligned with the direction he's throwing - it's pointed too much downfield, his hips aren't aligned with it, and he finishes in a goofy body position.

I'm not the world's tape expert, and again, I can't always see the technique error Palmer has called out, but these differences were fairly clear to pick up, I thought.

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7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's not quite correct, CB.  If you look in the QB Film Room at 2:25, you'll see that DiMarco is on the numbers when he starts turning to look back, and turns upfield when he's about 1/3 of the way toward the sideline from the numbers.  The ball shows up more like 2/3 of the way to the sideline and Dimarco has to adjust for it.

 

If you look at the way Zay runs that wheel route, he makes a nice round curve.  He is about 2/3 of the way to the sideline when he turns to look for the ball (nice route) and has to adjust inward toward the numbers to make the grab.  Here's a shot from the all-22, compare where he is when he turns and looks with QBFR at 2:25 where DiMarco is on the numbers.

 

image.thumb.png.e21fade5e0b6356890fbc2f85b6726f1.png


The throw from Allen IS an inaccurate throw and Zay has to make a big adjustment for it, good job on Zay.  If you look at Allen's foot and hip position when he throws (it's hard to see on Cover1's gif, easier on the All-22), you can tell that the throw is going to be inaccurate because he rolled out of the pocket and re-set poorly - his foot is not aligned with the direction he's throwing - it's pointed too much downfield, his hips aren't aligned with it, and he finishes in a goofy body position.

I'm not the world's tape expert, and again, I can't always see the technique error Palmer has called out, but these differences were fairly clear to pick up, I thought.

 

 

 

I see a missed throw even more so from the 2nd view behind Allen. 

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Saw a bunch of bad passes between Darnold and Mayfield that were either incomplete or great catches by the receivers. 

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7 hours ago, Doc said:

Saw a bunch of bad passes between Darnold and Mayfield that were either incomplete or great catches by the receivers. 

 

Does this deflection make you feel better about Allen? 

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36 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Does this deflection make you feel better about Allen? 

 

Somewhat.  Darnold and Mayfield are supposed to be very accurate.

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1 hour ago, Doc said:

Somewhat.  Darnold and Mayfield are supposed to be very accurate.

 

To me the point is that sometimes we (and the national media) judge Bills QB by a different standard.

Brady has been zip-code accurate at times in his first 2 games this year.  No one is calling him out "wow, for TB, that pass was way off".  I'm sure it's partly rust, and partly a new receiving stable that's not running the routes exactly as he demands, and by week 8 they'll be crisp and precise.

 

Both Keenum and Foles are zip code accurate QB at times.  They played each other for the NFC championship last year.   Diggs and Thielen make amazing adjustments. 

 

Last year we wanted a QB who would TAKE SHOTS.  THROW THE DAMN BALL.  Now we have a qb who will stand in and sling it, roll out and sling it, and we're beating on him because his professional WR or FB/RB targets had to make adjustments on the ball - balls they caught, or could have caught.  Does Allen make inaccurate throws sometimes, yes.  Are they throws that WR and TE and RB around the league adjust to and haul in routinely?  Yes.  Does it look like route running mistakes at times?  Also yes.

11 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

I miss Billy Brooks. 

 

I miss Andre Reed.

10 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

 

I see a missed throw even more so from the 2nd view behind Allen. 

 

CB, you do realize both these guys refer to the route as a "vertical" whereas our own coach, McDermott, ack's it as a "wheel concept".

That really ought to tell you something, eh?

 

Whether a QB feet etc are right or wrong depends upon where the analyst thinks he's supposed to be throwing, so yes, they're wrong for throwing to where DiMarco was, but not to where I think DiMarco was supposed to be. 

 

But whateves.  I notice you didn't acknowledge the differences between DiMarco's and Zay's wheel routes that could be clearly seen in the .gif I posted and timestamp I called out, so I don't think actual discussion and acknowledging another's points is your thing here.

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6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

To me the point is that sometimes we (and the national media) judge Bills QB by a different standard.

Brady has been zip-code accurate at times in his first 2 games this year.  No one is calling him out "wow, for TB, that pass was way off".  I'm sure it's partly rust, and partly a new receiving stable that's not running the routes exactly as he demands, and by week 8 they'll be crisp and precise.

 

Both Keenum and Foles are zip code accurate QB at times.  They played each other for the NFC championship last year.   Diggs and Thielen make amazing adjustments. 

 

Last year we wanted a QB who would TAKE SHOTS.  THROW THE DAMN BALL.  Now we have a qb who will stand in and sling it, roll out and sling it, and we're beating on him because his professional WR or FB/RB targets had to make adjustments on the ball - balls they caught, or could have caught.  Does Allen make inaccurate throws sometimes, yes.  Are they throws that WR and TE and RB around the league adjust to and haul in routinely?  Yes.  Does it look like route running mistakes at times?  Also yes.

 

I miss Andre Reed.

 

CB, you do realize both these guys refer to the route as a "vertical" whereas our own coach, McDermott, ack's it as a "wheel concept".

That really ought to tell you something, eh?

 

To me it's semantics, because wheel routes are conceptually designed to be vertical.

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14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

To me the point is that sometimes we (and the national media) judge Bills QB by a different standard.

Brady has been zip-code accurate at times in his first 2 games this year.  No one is calling him out "wow, for TB, that pass was way off".  I'm sure it's partly rust, and partly a new receiving stable that's not running the routes exactly as he demands, and by week 8 they'll be crisp and precise.

 

Both Keenum and Foles are zip code accurate QB at times.  They played each other for the NFC championship last year.

 

Last year we wanted a QB who would TAKE SHOTS.  THROW THE DAMN BALL.  Now we have a qb who will stand in and sling it, roll out and sling it, and we're beating on him because his professional WR or FB/RB targets had to make adjustments on the ball.  Does Allen make inaccurate throws sometimes, yes.  Are they throws that WR and TE and RB around the league adjust to and haul in routinely?  Yes.  Does it look like route running mistakes at times?  Also yes.

the bolded is so freaking true. I've been harping on this for a bit now. to myself, under my breath mostly.... how many td's and yards has big ben gotten by just putting in AB's zip code? qb's all around the nfl have wr's making great plays on the ball week in and week out. last week I saw relative no names like keelan cole and john brown make BIG TIME plays for their qb's. qb's all around the league are trusting their talent outside and getting rewarded for it. meanwhile i'm watching weekly going, why the hell do we have nobody on our team that can bail our qb out?..... or even catch the well placed ones?

 

and the kicker is until the bills have some talent that can make those "area code" plays, allen is gonna get crucified for his accuracy issues.

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