Coaches vs players. Which is more responsible for poor play?

[Mickey]

I blame the equipment managers who, for far too long, have escaped all criticism from the fan base and the sports broadcasting illuminati. Their disastrous decision to go with rag wool underwear in a rain storm and the predictable widespread chafing it caused doomed the Bills in Baltimore before they even left the locker room. Their excuse, that it was a "low cost, short term solution" to their worsening uniform budget deficit is all you need to know about their goals and intentions. Profit over wins, that's the mindset in the equipment room. They simply refuse to accept the analytics on the statistical relationship between testicular comfort and on the field performance.

 

Cotton! For god's sake, cotton! It is the only fabric used in Constanza Inc.'s "Shorts for Sports" line, the standard in the industry. 

[Heitz]

This year I blame the players, it's pretty clear that we don't have the talent needed to run ANY scheme.  

 

We have some building blocks, a few serviceable players here and there, but overall.  And while the lack of talent this year goes to the GM, they're playing the long game - they don't want to be "decent" this year, the want to be "great" in the future.  Sucks for all of us that want some instant (or even delayed) gratification, it's gonna take a few years, but they're building a roster that theoretically won't play so damn poor...

[Homey D. Clown]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

We have been critical of both coaches and players after the debacle Sunday.  Rightfully so.  But which has more responsibility?

 

I think players myself.  When you boil it down football is imposing your will on the guy in front of you.  And we have linemen get blown up, WRs that get pushed off the ball, etc.  Coaches can't really change that, other than getting rid of guys (Miller?  Ducasse?  Groy?)

 

i hope this Sunday some guys show some pride and step up their game.

 

The GM.  When you have your best 3 offensive linemen leave for various reasons and you don't immediately make that a top priority, you (as a GM) simply failed.  I don't care who else you drafted at this point.

[DRA3196]

Its up to the coaches to put the players in a position to succeed. Therefore its on the coaches

[SouthNYfan]

Just now, DRA3196 said:

Its up to the coaches to put the players in a position to succeed. Therefore its on the coaches

 

When your players cannot succeed because their talent level isn't even PS quality, it's tough to blame the coaching strategy, it's more about the roster building, which in this case, McD is a big part of.

 

[ricojes]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

We have been critical of both coaches and players after the debacle Sunday.  Rightfully so.  But which has more responsibility?

 

I think players myself.  When you boil it down football is imposing your will on the guy in front of you.  And we have linemen get blown up, WRs that get pushed off the ball, etc.  Coaches can't really change that, other than getting rid of guys (Miller?  Ducasse?  Groy?)

 

i hope this Sunday some guys show some pride and step up their game.

50 mil in dead cap money is insane, so I blame whomever got them there.  If we could have half of that this year and got 5, $5 million a year players, they would be a much better team.  Get a couple guys on the O line, a LB, a WR or 2, and a corner. 

 

That being said, I have faith in the scheme and our coaching staff.  It's up to the players to execute.  Dabol's hands were tied with a QB who was a deer in headlights.  The D missed assignments and it was just ugly.  You can lead a horse to water...

Edited September 12, 2018 by ricojes

[mead107]

Has to be the bad players 

[Billsatlastin2018]

I'd rather the question was generic, rather than based on last week. Let's face it- the GM has assembled a team of largely, sub standard, NO talent Trash. That's on him! And if the game plan, is to slowly replace Sunday Beer League guy's with NFL talent, we have a looooooooong wait to go.

 

I'd rather stick to an example to demonstrate. Unless memory is failing, Peyton Manning spent virtually his entire Colts career in hurry up mode. I.e. His entire front line were disciplined and poised to get down into a set for at least 20 seconds, without flinching on every play, while he called AND changed the plays.

 

I simply cannot recall how many times, that line False Started- but it was rare. It was rare because Dungy, his coaches and Manning, whipped that into them, from before they even hit training camp. (There are other examples- of course, Billy B is one- where you better not F up- EVER... or you don't play for him!)

 

i guarantee you, that on Sunday, at Home and with the crowd quiet, this Bills line will False Start! I sometimes saw it 4 times per game this Millennium.

 

Stupid penalties, deliberate head hunting, poor positioning, incorrect reads, are ALL on coaching and the absence of discipline & repercussion.

[Nitro]

The management.  Should have been honest and said this is a rebuilding season.  It was plain to see.  Trading Taylor and Glenn for picks.  Drafting Allen.  Not bringing in a veteran FA guards to offer competition.  I am not upset. Next off season will see more talent depart (McCoy for one) and new guys brought in to address holes.  They are two O linemen and a true #1 WR away from being in the mix.  

[row_33]

Ravens had better coaches and players and were better prepped and executed better.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

We have been critical of both coaches and players after the debacle Sunday.  Rightfully so.  But which has more responsibility?

 

I think players myself.  When you boil it down football is imposing your will on the guy in front of you.  And we have linemen get blown up, WRs that get pushed off the ball, etc.  Coaches can't really change that, other than getting rid of guys (Miller?  Ducasse?  Groy?)

 

i hope this Sunday some guys show some pride and step up their game.

 

There's that truism, it's about the Jimmies and Joes not the X's and O's.

 

On the other hand, good coaching puts Jimmie and Joe in positions to succeed and plays to their strengths.   From what I've seen, I feel the OL scheme is asking our OL to do things it can't, and we're not figuring out how to exploit the opponent successfully.

 

Somehow McDermott & Co are saying for the first 4 games its alway uncertain what the opponent will give you, but the Ravens crafted a brilliant game that exploited our D scheme and the Jets stole the Lions signs through film study.

 

Huh.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

We have been critical of both coaches and players after the debacle Sunday.  Rightfully so.  But which has more responsibility?

 

I think players myself.  When you boil it down football is imposing your will on the guy in front of you.  And we have linemen get blown up, WRs that get pushed off the ball, etc.  Coaches can't really change that, other than getting rid of guys (Miller?  Ducasse?  Groy?)

 

i hope this Sunday some guys show some pride and step up their game.

 

The Ravens roster was far away better than ours everywhere but RB, which didn't even show on Sunday.

[DRA3196]

 

The players can't succeed when they haven't developed any continuity. The competitions in the offseason were maddening, and  IMO a big reason the team looked lost on Sunday. That's on the coaches not putting the players in a position to succeed. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

As mentioned in the Accountability thread 

 

IMHO  Both 

[CLTbills]

On 9/12/2018 at 9:43 AM, DRA3196 said:

Its up to the coaches to put the players in a position to succeed. Therefore its on the coaches

You're right, it is up to the coaches to put the players in a position to succeed. But at the end of the day, the players are the ones executing (or not executing) the plays. The PLAYERS are the ones that are jumping offside, false starting, etc. 

 

While I believe there's plenty of blame to place on both parties, players and coaches, at the end of the day, the players are the ones on the field.

[C.Biscuit97]

On 9/12/2018 at 7:43 AM, SouthNYfan said:

Coach/GM for stacking the roster with players who "buy into the process" and completely forgoing talent to do so 

 

McDermott is basically Chip Kelly, with less arrogance/dbag and more Bible and clapping.

Chip Kelly was a good coach in Philly. He won 10 games his first 2 years with very average talent at qb.  What killed him is becoming the GM.  It’s why I hate how much power McDermott has.  He needs to be checked and have someone just for offensive personnel.

[SouthNYfan]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Chip Kelly was a good coach in Philly. He won 10 games his first 2 years with very average talent at qb.  What killed him is becoming the GM.  It’s why I hate how much power McDermott has.  He needs to be checked and have someone just for offensive personnel.

 

Exactly.

There are very few guys who can handle that responsibility.

Look at the Steelers with Tomlin.

Pittsburghy coaches have always been GM and coach.

He can obviously handle the offensive side of the ball, but their defense always has poor depth, and all the stars were holdovers from cowher if I'm remembering correctly, and they've slowly gotten worse and worse on defense under Tomlin.

On 9/12/2018 at 11:17 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's that truism, it's about the Jimmies and Joes not the X's and O's.

 

On the other hand, good coaching puts Jimmie and Joe in positions to succeed and plays to their strengths.   From what I've seen, I feel the OL scheme is asking our OL to do things it can't, and we're not figuring out how to exploit the opponent successfully.

 

Somehow McDermott & Co are saying for the first 4 games its alway uncertain what the opponent will give you, but the Ravens crafted a brilliant game that exploited our D scheme and the Jets stole the Lions signs through film study.

 

Huh.

 

Also, it's the guys making the xs and os who are choosing what jimmies and Johns are on the field.

When the coach-gm are asking the jimmies and Johns to do things they aren't capable of, that's on the coach, just like you said.

It's like sexy rexy asking dareus and Mario to drop into pass coverage... What!?

 

If you try to tow a 40' camper that weighs 12000 lbs with a Honda fit, it's not Honda's fault you blew an axle and grenaded your transmission... It's ur fault for not having the right equipment for the job 

User/operator error.

The gm/coach is the operator/user in this case.

[DRA3196]

On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 12:18 PM, CLTbills said:

You're right, it is up to the coaches to put the players in a position to succeed. But at the end of the day, the players are the ones executing (or not executing) the plays. The PLAYERS are the ones that are jumping offside, false starting, etc. 

 

While I believe there's plenty of blame to place on both parties, players and coaches, at the end of the day, the players are the ones on the field.

If the players aren't performing, isn't it up to the coaches to play the players that do perform, on the field? For Example- Continuity on the offensive line is important to that units success. If the coach switches out the center position every other day during camp and then in preseason, how is that continuity built? It can't be. If the HC decides to put players in different positions, during a game, than they have been practicing at, and plays a rookie QB, I believe he is setting up the QB and the line to fail. 

[Boatdrinks]

On 9/12/2018 at 8:25 AM, SoCal Deek said:

After Week One it’s the coaches for not assembling an NFL quality roster. The Bills didn’t get pummeled by lack of scheme. They got beat by lack of talent. As the season wears on we’ll see if this less than talented group continues to fight. If not, some of the blame will shift to the players for giving up. Tick, tick, tick.

Coaches wouldn’t be responsible for assembling the roster. They would be responsible for scheme. 

[SoTier]

On 9/12/2018 at 7:43 AM, SouthNYfan said:

Coach/GM for stacking the roster with players who "buy into the process" and completely forgoing talent to do so 

 

McDermott is basically Chip Kelly, with less arrogance/dbag and more Bible and clapping.

 

Point.  Set.  Match.  

 

Blaming the players for a team's failures is like blaming foot soldiers for losing battles rather the generals.