Vontae Davis' scheme with the rest of the Secondary

[IgotBILLStopay]

I saw Vontae Davis play a lot during his time at Illinois, but not since. He is a fantastic man coverage player. Curt Mallory, the DB coach and subsequent DC at Illinois never played zone to my knowledge. I have been rethinking his scheme fit with the Bills since we play zone coverage pretty exclusively. We know Tre White, Hyde and Poyer are all pretty good playing zone. Last season, EJ Gaines was especially great in zone coverage. For zone coverage, all 4 players in the secondary need to be on the same page. But even if one guy is not where he is supposed to be, there will be soft spots in the zone coverage. All an OC needs to do is find these soft spots, which is what the Bengals Offense did to make Dalton look like Aaron Rogers on roids. While Tre misplayed the one TD pass to Green, he, Poyer and Hyde were fine for the most part. But, Davis was out of position again and again. 

 

I thought the lack of fit was a primary reason (cap space was also important) the Bills did not offer GIlmore. In retrospect, I am surprised the Bills went after Davis.  The good news is that Davis is a consummate professional. So he can likely learn the zone concepts as we go along. I mean Gilmore was always a man coverage guy - but Belichik plays both man and zone - so he had to learn on the fly. After floundering for a few games, he did eventually get on the same page with Belichik. I am hoping the same thing happens with Davis - but there will definitely be growing pains.

[JoeF]

1 minute ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

I saw Vontae Davis play a lot during his time at Illinois, but not since. He is a fantastic man coverage player. Curt Mallory, the DB coach and subsequent DC at Illinois never played zone to my knowledge. I have been rethinking his scheme fit with the Bills since we play zone coverage pretty exclusively. We know Tre White, Hyde and Poyer are all pretty good playing zone. Last season, EJ Gaines was especially great in zone coverage. For zone coverage, all 4 players in the secondary need to be on the same page. But even if one guy is not where he is supposed to be, there will be soft spots in the zone coverage. All an OC needs to do is find these soft spots, which is what the Bengals Offense did to make Dalton look like Aaron Rogers on roids. While Tre misplayed the one TD pass to Green, he, Poyer and Hyde were fine for the most part. But, Davis was out of position again and again. 

 

I thought the lack of fit was a primary reason (cap space was also important) the Bills did not offer GIlmore. In retrospect, I am surprised the Bills went after Davis.  The good news is that Davis is a consummate professional. So he can likely learn the zone concepts as we go along. I mean Gilmore was always a man coverage guy - but Belichik plays both man and zone - so he had to learn on the fly. After floundering for a few games, he did eventually get on the same page with Belichik. I am hoping the same thing happens with Davis - but there will definitely be growing pains.

Good analysis.  The only thing I would add is that "recovery speed" is important in both schemes.  Even in zone coverage, within your area of responsibility, you need to break on the ball quickly and defend the ball.  "MC Hammer feet" is how coach put it. 

 

I think Vontae's speed has deteriorated and he is still adjusting to playing smarter rather than relying on his speed to cover slow reads in the zone.  The groin is probably still a little tender and the system, as you say, is not second nature yet.  I hope he closes the gap.  I don't think he is in danger of being cut, but stranger things have happened.

 

 

[RyanC883]

13 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

I saw Vontae Davis play a lot during his time at Illinois, but not since. He is a fantastic man coverage player. Curt Mallory, the DB coach and subsequent DC at Illinois never played zone to my knowledge. I have been rethinking his scheme fit with the Bills since we play zone coverage pretty exclusively. We know Tre White, Hyde and Poyer are all pretty good playing zone. Last season, EJ Gaines was especially great in zone coverage. For zone coverage, all 4 players in the secondary need to be on the same page. But even if one guy is not where he is supposed to be, there will be soft spots in the zone coverage. All an OC needs to do is find these soft spots, which is what the Bengals Offense did to make Dalton look like Aaron Rogers on roids. While Tre misplayed the one TD pass to Green, he, Poyer and Hyde were fine for the most part. But, Davis was out of position again and again. 

 

I thought the lack of fit was a primary reason (cap space was also important) the Bills did not offer GIlmore. In retrospect, I am surprised the Bills went after Davis.  The good news is that Davis is a consummate professional. So he can likely learn the zone concepts as we go along. I mean Gilmore was always a man coverage guy - but Belichik plays both man and zone - so he had to learn on the fly. After floundering for a few games, he did eventually get on the same page with Belichik. I am hoping the same thing happens with Davis - but there will definitely be growing pains.

 

wow, awesome analysis.   Hopefully he improves like Gilmore did for the Pats.  I think he will.  Perhaps he's also nursing the injury during preseason.   I wouldn't even play him in this last preseason game if he is at all sore.  Let him watch how the coverage works in a game from the sidelines--that can be helpful mentally, and allow him to physically recover.  

[IgotBILLStopay]

3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

wow, awesome analysis.   Hopefully he improves like Gilmore did for the Pats.  I think he will.  Perhaps he's also nursing the injury during preseason.   I wouldn't even play him in this last preseason game if he is at all sore.  Let him watch how the coverage works in a game from the sidelines--that can be helpful mentally, and allow him to physically recover.  

You may be onto something here about letting a player watch from the sideline. Maybe that is what did the trick for Gilmore. I remember he was awful before sitting out 3 games due to injury. When he came back he was completely different.

3 hours ago, JoeF said:

Good analysis.  The only thing I would add is that "recovery speed" is important in both schemes.  Even in zone coverage, within your area of responsibility, you need to break on the ball quickly and defend the ball.  "MC Hammer feet" is how coach put it. 

 

I think Vontae's speed has deteriorated and he is still adjusting to playing smarter rather than relying on his speed to cover slow reads in the zone.  The groin is probably still a little tender and the system, as you say, is not second nature yet.  I hope he closes the gap.  I don't think he is in danger of being cut, but stranger things have happened.

 

 

let us hope it is injury and not age and he can recover with some rest.

[BullBuchanan]

11 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

You may be onto something here about letting a player watch from the sideline. Maybe that is what did the trick for Gilmore. I remember he was awful before sitting out 3 games due to injury. When he came back he was completely different.

let us hope it is injury and not age and he can recover with some rest.

I noticed in Embedded Part 1 Tre White was making fun on him being an old man with how all of his joints creak when he walks. Probably just a young guy poking the vet, but maybe he really is just broken down.

[dpberr]

FWIW, when the Bills signed him, I thought they were going to transition him to safety to be part of a three-safety "big nickel" defense the Bills use.

 

I'm not convinced he's got CB speed anymore.  

[Buffalo716]

The Bills do not play zone exclusively... sure McDermott hangs his hat on his zone defense

 

But they played man around 40% last year... and yes Vontae excels in press man

 

but he should be able to adapt to a press cover 3. He’s been in the league for 6+ years 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Buffalo716

[RoyBatty is alive]

29 minutes ago, dpberr said:

FWIW, when the Bills signed him, I thought they were going to transition him to safety to be part of a three-safety "big nickel" defense the Bills use.

 

I'm not convinced he's got CB speed anymore.  

I think you are right, that first TD of the Bengals looked real real bad, like comedy bad, whiffed twice on one play.  That groin injury and 30 years old may have caught up to him

Edited August 30, 2018 by RoyBatty is alive

[John from Riverside]

Im not worried about it....yet

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

Good analysis and yes I am worried about that 2nd corner. We looked soft, slow and stupid on defense against both the Bengals and Browns 1st team.