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Run blocking vs. pass blocking


CLTbills

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I’m asking this because I truly do not know the ins and outs, blocking schemes, etc. of offensive line play. It’s the one area of the game that I just have absolutely zero experience or knowledge about. 

 

How is can a group of guys run block so well, but pass block so poorly? The run game was going well on Sunday. But on passing downs our O-line just got rocked. It’s it scheme? And if so, what do I look for?

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15 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

I’m asking this because I truly do not know the ins and outs, blocking schemes, etc. of offensive line play. It’s the one area of the game that I just have absolutely zero experience or knowledge about. 

 

How is can a group of guys run block so well, but pass block so poorly? The run game was going well on Sunday. But on passing downs our O-line just got rocked. It’s it scheme? And if so, what do I look for?

 

I am the wrong person to respond, CLT, but I will say this (based upon nothing): the next revolutionary change in the nfl (shot gun, no huddle, "Big Nickel" now with safeties) is going to be pass blocking that isn't just going to be stepping back and going on the defensive.

 

As I've said here before, I think the olines in football should be a little more offensive when it comes to pass protection and not as reactionary.  Currently the hope is to create a bubble around the QB and not bend to the will of the DL.  It isn't working a whole, at least not for a team like ours.  Generally the olines are big and slow and not built for "reacting" to what the DL gives them.

Edited by dollars 2 donuts
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One of the problems with our poor pass blocking right now is the guys we have on the line are overweight and simply lack the athletic ability (relative to their size) to move laterally, quickly, and with good balance.

 

If you watch the pass coverage break-downs from yesterday's game, you will see that the defender beat his man often with his first move. One quick move that the Bill OL couldn't respond to, and the gap was open for the defender to go straight into the backfield and after Allen.

 

Our OL's lateral movement is atrocious, and John Miller, in particular, needs to start bending at his knees and not his hips.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

I am the wrong person to respond, CLT, but I will say this (based upon nothing): the next revolutionary change in the nfl (shot gun, no huddle, "Big Nickel" now with safeties) is going to be pass blocking that isn't just going to be stepping back and going on the defensive.

 

As I've said here before, I think the olines in football should be a little more offensive when it comes to pass protection and not as reactionary.  Currently the hope is to create a bubble around the QB and not bend to the will of the DL.  It isn't working a whole, at least not for a team like ours.  Generally the olines are big and slow and not built for "reacting" to what the DL gives them.

 

Wouldn’t that result in an ineligible receiver downfield penalty?

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Cincy was not concerned with stopping the run, they sent their 4 guys ears pinned back every play, they wanted to get after the rookie and get in his face and they accomplished that pretty well.    When you're penetrating upfield the way they were there were running lanes to pick through if a DT didn't get you in the backfield first. 

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My brief stint as an offensive lineman leads me to believe that it has to do with active vs. passive blocking. For the most part, in run blocking you are attacking the guy in front of you and trying to move him from one place to another. This requires down hill strength. In pass blocking, you're waiting for him to come to you. In fact, you don't want to initiate the contact because you need to hold the pocket and stay in your spot. So in pass blocking, guys who might be good at grinding guys out of the way are exposed to speed, or the in the case of our lovely #62, a bullrush where the momentum is going against him and he doesn't have an answer to it. I would guess that balance and upper body strength has a lot to do with it. 

I think that guys like Groy, and Miller, and Ducasse have a lot of lower body strength so that once they engage a player if they have the low position (which is easier to get in run blocking cause you know where you want to be going) they can maul him out of the way with muscle. They're hard to move back this way as well because the d-lineman are fighting from a disadvantage. In pass blocking they get exposed because the d-line directs the contact so they either can take a low position, which requires upper body strength to fight off of, or else they get by on speed. 

 

 

Just one guys thoughts. 

Edited by whatdrought
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Just now, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Wouldn’t that result in an ineligible receiver downfield penalty?

 

 

Johnny, I honestly thought of that.  Not (I believe) if it was within three yards.  The D will still want to attack so there will be contact.  I am not talking about driving guys down the field, but rather engaging them more.  Just because I am back peddling and shuffling my feet doesn't mean that I can handle you doing all your moves to get by me.

 

Maybe you just swim past me...fine, that has to be worked on.  However, if I am engaging you the hope is it is going to be more of a problem for you.  You may be either stopped or on your heels a bit.  Even for a moment.

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3 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Johnny, I honestly thought of that.  Not (I believe) if it was within three yards.  The D will still want to attack so there will be contact.  I am not talking about driving guys down the field, but rather engaging them more.  Just because I am back peddling and shuffling my feet doesn't mean that I can handle you doing all your moves to get by me.

 

Maybe you just swim past me...fine, that has to be worked on.  However, if I am engaging you the hope is it is going to be more of a problem for you.  You may be either stopped or on your heels a bit.  Even for a moment.

 

The problem with this is that speed will go past these guys. In run blocking that's okay because you only have to clear the guy a half step off the hole. In pass blocking you have to keep him off. If the linemen put all their momentum forward all the D-line would need to do is step aside and let them go past and then the QB is sitting there like a turkey on Thanksgiving. 

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8 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

The problem with this is that speed will go past these guys. In run blocking that's okay because you only have to clear the guy a half step off the hole. In pass blocking you have to keep him off. If the linemen put all their momentum forward all the D-line would need to do is step aside and let them go past and then the QB is sitting there like a turkey on Thanksgiving. 

 

 

Come on, Dubs, work with me!  At least see the process!  :lol:

 

I really don't disagree with what you are saying, Drought, but like the team in texas (I think) that never punts I wish somebody, somewhere would start to think outside the box when it comes to blocking.

 

However, my friend, just read again what I put in bold approve from your text and think about it for a moment:  what if you weren't "keeping him off", but rather pressing?  Why can't DLinemen just step aside on running plays?  With that same moment they would be able to get a hold of the RB at the line, or for a short gain.

 

You get yards running the ball because there is engagement at the point of contact and you are pushing (or trying to push) the DL back.  

 

What if by popping them momentarily, attacking momentarily, you were able to delay them for as much as a second, or at least slow up "their moves" to get to the QB?

 

I am just asking you (or anyone) to just try and think about that for a moment.

Edited by dollars 2 donuts
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Just now, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Come on, Dubs, work with me!  At least see the process!  :lol:

 

I really don't disagree with what you are saying, Drought, but like the team in texas (I think) that never punts I wish somebody, somewhere would start to think outside the box when it comes to blocking.

 

However, my friend, just read again what I put in bold approve from your text and think about it for a moment:  what if you weren't "keeping him off", but rather pressing?  Why can't DLinemen just step aside on running plays?  With that same moment they would be able to get a hold of the RB at the line, or for a short gain.

 

You get yards running the ball because there is engagement at the point of contact and you are pushing (or trying to push) the DL back.  

 

What if by popping them momentarily you were able to delay them for as much as a second, or at least slow up "their moves" to get to the QB?

 

I am just asking you (or anyone) to just try and think about that for a moment.

 

 

I know what you're saying. The reason it doesn't work is because of momentum and direction. 

 

If you're trying to get to point A and you have to be there in 1 second cause that's as long as the RB will be there, I can stop you from that by attacking you. If you have to be there in 3-5 seconds, I can't push you that long that you can't just redirect my momentum and get past me. This is essentially why people run dives up the middle. So many people first watching football don't understand that practice, but it's quite simple. I am betting that my guys will get .5 seconds of clearance for my running back to get through. If they do, he's in good shape. If not, he looses yards. 

 

The best defensive linemen in the league aren't the ones too big to be pushed off the ball. They're the ones with enough lateral quickness and strength to put the offensive linemen on skates. 

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6 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

What if by popping them momentarily, attacking momentarily, you were able to delay them for as much as a second, or at least slow up "their moves" to get to the QB?

 

I am just asking you (or anyone) to just try and think about that for a moment.

 

The point of run blocking is to create momentary holes for a RB to run through. This also, means that the defense can run through the same holes,  but because the ball carrier has gone downfield, it no longer matters how many defensive players are in the pocket.

 

Your idea will work, if all you really want to do is give the QB a couple of extra seconds, because it's pretty easy to run around a run block, it just takes extra time. In theory, a pass block can be sustained a lot longer if the Olineman is good enough.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, CLTbills said:

I’m asking this because I truly do not know the ins and outs, blocking schemes, etc. of offensive line play. It’s the one area of the game that I just have absolutely zero experience or knowledge about. 

 

How is can a group of guys run block so well, but pass block so poorly? The run game was going well on Sunday. But on passing downs our O-line just got rocked. It’s it scheme? And if so, what do I look for?

 

 

Please let me apologize to you, CLT.  I quickly high jacked your thread.  You asked a good question and I forced my way in early with a particular thought.

 

i hope someone can respond to your original question with more respect than I showed.

 

apologies, brother.

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13 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Please let me apologize to you, CLT.  I quickly high jacked your thread.  You asked a good question and I forced my way in early with a particular thought.

 

i hope someone can respond to your original question with more respect than I showed.

 

apologies, brother.

Haha, no worries. Like I said, that's one area of the game that I have very limited knowledge, and it just really stuck out to me how well we ran the ball and how terrible we are at pass blocking. I think you made some good points. 

 

Just looking for insight because it is somewhat intriguing.

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I’ve never played Offensive Line but the difference seems obvious. In run blocking you’re attacking, going forward, trying to move your man off a spot. (Like in wrestling.) When pass protecting you’re moving backwards trying to keep your man from moving you of your spot. (Like in wrestling.) They’re two completely different skills.

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