Big time QBs who didn't start out of the gate vs. ones who did

[dave mcbride]

Highly drafted QBs (1st or second rounds) who didn't start right away and were eased in: Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Jared Goff, Eli Manning, Jimmy Garrapolo, Alex Smith, Brady Quinn, Paxton Lynch, Daunte Culpepper, and Donovan McNabb. 

 

On the other side, here are recent QBs who started from day 1: Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, Russell Wilson, Ben Roethlisberger, Cam Newton, David Carr, Derek Carr, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, Andrew Luck, Payton Manning, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, RG III, Brandon Weeden, Blaine Gabbert, Tim Couch, Mark Sanchez, Andy Dalton, and Ryan Tannehill. 

 

(DeShaun Watson, Blake Bortles, Christian Ponder, Mitchell Trubisky, and Marcus Mariota only sat for a small number of games before being taking the reins.)  

 

What's the best path? My own two cents: I think the Bills should sit Allen given how awful the line and the receivers are. Getting beaten to a pulp and putting up negligible numbers out of the gate on the path to a very bad season won't do him any favors. Peterman, who is a much lesser talent, plays the sort of game that mitigates these massive weaknesses. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by dave mcbride

[ko12010]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Highly drafted QBs (1st or second rounds) who didn't start right away and were eased in: Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Jared Goff, Eli Manning, Jimmy Garrapolo, Alex Smith, Brady Quinn, Paxton Lynch, Daunte Culpepper, and Donovan McNabb. 

 

On the other side, here are recent QBs who started from day 1: Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, Russell Wilson, Ben Roethlisberger, Cam Newton, David Carr, Derek Carr, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, Andrew Luck, Payton Manning, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, RG III, Brandon Weeden, Blaine Gabbert, Tim Couch, Mark Sanchez, Andy Dalton, and Ryan Tannehill. 

 

(DeShaun Watson, Blake Bortles, Christian Ponder, Mitchell Trubisky, and Marcus Mariota only sat for a small number of games before being taking the reins.)  

 

What's the best path? My own two cents: I think the Bills should sit Allen given how awful the line and the receivers are. Getting beaten to a pulp and putting up negligible numbers out of the gate on the path to a very bad season won't do him any favors. Peterman, who is a much lesser talent, plays the sort of game that mitigates these massive weaknesses. 

I still don't agree with the notion that our WRs are awful. Kelvin, Zay, Kerley, Clay (Receiving TE), Reilly, Ray Ray Mcloud, Coleman. A lot of if's there, but we could have 5 Randy Mosses and it won't matter much because of the oline

[Boatdrinks]

There’s no single “ right way” to handle a new QB. Many of those who started right away were #1 overall picks. Others didn’t have a good option in front of them. Many of those who were eased in did. Anyway, the Oline looks worse than I thought it would. That shot Allen took yesterday and the way he fell gives me great pause. A QB of lesser physical stature may have been knocked out of the game and possibly missed significant time. While I don’t feel playing behind that OL would stunt a QBs development or “ ruin” him, it sure as heck may get him injured. That would set the Allen timetable back in a big way. I’d start Peterman at this point. 

[thebandit27]

Good info and perspective Dave (as usual).

 

As a side note: I just watched yesterday's game for the first time. I have no idea how anyone could be all that upset with Allen. He looked like he wasn't up to speed yet, but in light of that I thought he handled the pressure well and threw the ball fine.

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Good info and perspective Dave (as usual).

 

As a side note: I just watched yesterday's game for the first time. I have no idea how anyone could be all that upset with Allen. He looked like he wasn't up to speed yet, but in light of that I thought he handled the pressure well and threw the ball fine.

Agreed. It was a jailbreak on nearly every passing play.

[Boatdrinks]

7 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Good info and perspective Dave (as usual).

 

As a side note: I just watched yesterday's game for the first time. I have no idea how anyone could be all that upset with Allen. He looked like he wasn't up to speed yet, but in light of that I thought he handled the pressure well and threw the ball fine.

I concur. I’d venture that most Bills fans would agree with your assessment. 

[Coach Tuesday]

I agree with Dave and Bandit.  Allen was a bit slow yesterday but didn't stand a chance.  There is no point in trotting him out there to get his confidence and body destroyed by the patchwork line Beane has assembled.

 

If I were the Pegulas I'd be concerned - and somewhat pissed.  Beane and McD finally have a Ferrari, and they're about to leave it out in the elements and drive it around on a demolition course.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Coach Tuesday

[BringBackOrton]

Paxton Lynch didn’t start out of the gate.

Edited August 27, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[prissythecat]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

Paxton Lynch didn’t start out of the gate.

 

 

Will any team let him out from behind the gate?

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

 

Will any team let him out from behind the gate?

He’s on his way to the glue factory.

[SoTier]

Allen wasn't the problem at all yesterday.  He's got a ways to go, but he certainly looks better than Manuel did at this point (Losman broke his leg in TC and didn't play until a few plays very late in the season).  He has a lot of poise under pressure but he also has a lot more of the fundamentals he needs to learn, too.  It certainly wouldn't hurt him to be the backup QB at least for a while, perhaps even the entire season, while he worked on improving his skills.

 

My main worry in starting him is that it's likely any QB who starts in the regular season is going to get steam-rolled pretty regularly.  I would hate for Allen to suffer a season ending injury in a meaningless game and be stuck on crutches so he couldn't work on his footwork, mechanics, etc which are things that need to be practiced almost incessantly until they become ingrained -- or worse, develop/redevelop bad habits while trying to escape pass rushers.

 

As others have said, it's easy to go from Peterman or McCarron to Allen.  It's not that easy to go from Allen to Peterman or McCarron.  It says that "the QB of the future" can't win football games or is the reason the team isn't winning football games. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by SoTier

[quinnearlysghost88]

Are we supposed to have some amazing offseason next year where our line is all studs and our wr Corp is loaded? Is that what we wait for to start Josh? If so, he should be taking the field in 2038. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by quinnearlysghost88

[ddaryl]

58 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Highly drafted QBs (1st or second rounds) who didn't start right away and were eased in: Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Jared Goff, Eli Manning, Jimmy Garrapolo, Alex Smith, Brady Quinn, Paxton Lynch, Daunte Culpepper, and Donovan McNabb. 

 

On the other side, here are recent QBs who started from day 1: Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, Russell Wilson, Ben Roethlisberger, Cam Newton, David Carr, Derek Carr, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, Andrew Luck, Payton Manning, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, RG III, Brandon Weeden, Blaine Gabbert, Tim Couch, Mark Sanchez, Andy Dalton, and Ryan Tannehill. 

 

(DeShaun Watson, Blake Bortles, Christian Ponder, Mitchell Trubisky, and Marcus Mariota only sat for a small number of games before being taking the reins.)  

 

What's the best path? My own two cents: I think the Bills should sit Allen given how awful the line and the receivers are. Getting beaten to a pulp and putting up negligible numbers out of the gate on the path to a very bad season won't do him any favors. Peterman, who is a much lesser talent, plays the sort of game that mitigates these massive weaknesses. 

 

 

OL situation I agree, I am not in the same camp on the WR situation and I feel a QB with some time to throw will have no issues with our WR. Could we improve at the WR position.. probably but we're not woeful by any means

 

There really isn't a wrong or right regarding starting a new QB out of the gate. It works and it doesn't 

[dave mcbride]

17 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Paxton Lynch didn’t start out of the gate.

I know - I said that, in fact.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

40 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Good info and perspective Dave (as usual).

 

As a side note: I just watched yesterday's game for the first time. I have no idea how anyone could be all that upset with Allen. He looked like he wasn't up to speed yet, but in light of that I thought he handled the pressure well and threw the ball fine.

It is incredible that posters trash Allen based on yesterday's game.  We're lucky he can still function after that beat down.

[Coach Tuesday]

23 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Are we supposed to have some amazing offseason next year where our line is all studs and our wr Corp is loaded? Is that what we wait for to start Josh? If so, he should be taking the field in 2038. 

 

We are going to have a boatload of free agent dollars to spend and we might also have a coach and GM facing considerable pressure to re-tune their strategic plan after going from 9-7 to... anyhow, yes, if they made the OL a focus over the next season and offseason they probably could get it sorted.  In the meantime, Allen is on the bench, safe from certain death, and learning the playbook.

[quinnearlysghost88]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

We are going to have a boatload of free agent dollars to spend and we might also have a coach and GM facing considerable pressure to re-tune their strategic plan after going from 9-7 to... anyhow, yes, if they made the OL a focus over the next season and offseason they probably could get it sorted.  In the meantime, Allen is on the bench, safe from certain death, and learning the playbook.

This is the type of safe approach a team takes when they are already a high performing team. The new guy learns behind the vet, while they remain competitive. Not the rookie learns behind Nathan Peterman whom he could outplay tomorrow, while we go 4-12. Just start him. If you don’t, where would this leave us next year? He knows the plays a little better, yet still has no game experience. No speed of the game perception. Behind a slightly (maybe?) better line with a group of WR talent that’s pretty close to what we have now? Why burn the year. 

[Coach Tuesday]

51 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

This is the type of safe approach a team takes when they are already a high performing team. The new guy learns behind the vet, while they remain competitive. Not the rookie learns behind Nathan Peterman whom he could outplay tomorrow, while we go 4-12. Just start him. If you don’t, where would this leave us next year? He knows the plays a little better, yet still has no game experience. No speed of the game perception. Behind a slightly (maybe?) better line with a group of WR talent that’s pretty close to what we have now? Why burn the year. 

 

He literally won't survive.  Look at the schedule, I don't care how tough the kid is - heck, he won't make it past the Houston game with this PassPro.

[Lfod]

57 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

This is the type of safe approach a team takes when they are already a high performing team. The new guy learns behind the vet, while they remain competitive. Not the rookie learns behind Nathan Peterman whom he could outplay tomorrow, while we go 4-12. Just start him. If you don’t, where would this leave us next year? He knows the plays a little better, yet still has no game experience. No speed of the game perception. Behind a slightly (maybe?) better line with a group of WR talent that’s pretty close to what we have now? Why burn the year. 

No QB on this team has outplayed Peterman. It wont be happening tomorrow. 

[Boatdrinks]

21 minutes ago, Lfod said:

No QB on this team has outplayed Peterman. It wont be happening tomorrow. 

Trouble is, Petermans best isn’t good enough to win many games . Even with a much better roster than exists here. Have to stick with the master plan, which means finding out if you drafted an elite QB. So there’s more to the decision than just who’s been the most consistent. They aren’t going to win many regardless of who starts. Why waste time with Peterman? I do see the logic behind starting him for a few games while this OL gets straightened out ( hopefully). They may not want to subject their investment to possible injury and set this thing back until next year.