[Vague Title] The Sky Is Not Falling

[The Crowing Rooster]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

The sky isn't falling because it already fell ... when Eric Wood was forced into retirement by injury and the team was just fine with Richie Incognito retiring, too.   Then, in FA, they let Seantrel Henderson leave before they traded away proven LT Cordy Glenn.  Whatever could have been done to address the OL should have been done months ago in FA and the draft, but as numerous posters have noted, McDermott and Beane chose to go with bottom feeder FAs and a single, later round prospect in the draft.

 

There are virtually never starter caliber OLers available at the end of preseason.  A team might pick up a young OL prospect who can't make another team's final 53 but teams generally don't sacrifice starting OLers because of the cap so late in the game.  Quality OLers are just too valuable because a team without a decent OL is totally stymied on offense no matter what other stars a team may have on offense.  Most teams GMs/HCs understand this but apparently it's a lesson that McDermott and Beane still have to learn.

 

[corta765]

Agreed. I end up like this:

 

Happy with:

QB's- Overall Allen has shown far more good then bad and Peterman looks serviceable enough as a starter to take the reigns week 1 which is a plus in my eyes

RB's: Murphy and Ivory seem to be balancing each other great and pushing each other for the #2 spot

Milano- He has been their best LB and seems to have taken this year in even better

Run Defense- It seems to have been fixed at least as pre season has progressed

 

No major issues until season starts to judge:

Secondary- I don't think you are seeing any real scheme or true work at this point. It's more a matter of figuring out CB's 2-4

TE- The backups look better then Clay who has been shaky but lets see what happens come week 1

Offensive scheme- Shady hasn't played much, Dawkins they kept out, and in general no O coordinator shows their hand. I like some of what Dabol has done and at other times hated it but I'll wait til week 1.

WR- They have shown not to be a problem and I think their is enough talent there to be content at this point

Edmunds- The kid will have his bumps and has, but he also has progressed showing some good vision. He will need I think the first month to find his true sea legs but once he does look out.

 

Concerned:

Offensive Line- Listen I can buy not having Dawkins in as a reason for the problems yesterday, but week 2 against CLE he was in and they still stunk. Against the run they seem fine and Peterman has managed OK with them, but overall it looks really shaky and Beane would do well to try to trade or bring in an established guard. The O lines woes make me terrified to start Allen because I don't want him having to run for his life which it looks like he may have to do early on.

Coaching- Yesterday's game angered me multiple times with coaching decisions. It's a freaking pre season game and this is a time to let your rookie make mistakes. They punt on 4th and 1 after not reviewing the play, they punt again on another 4th and five, on 2nd and 29 they run the ball, on 3rd and 29 they run the ball, multiple times they played ultra conservative. Listen I am not saying to have Allen throw deep either every play and I get trying to establish a ground game but it just felt so close to the chest that how are you suppose to elevate Allen regardless of line play when you won't let him have the ball. The 4th and 1 especially was awful because the kid made a great play to finally get something going and they neither challenged nor gave Allen a chance to do something. Guess what McD even if we fail on 4th down it doesn't matter because it's pre season. Hopefully this is just a blip on the radar, but ultra conservative will not win two years straight and he wasted a chance to give Allen some opportunities to sink or swim in a setting with no risk.

Defensive line pressure- They really are not getting much pressure on QB's all pre season. Perhaps once the season starts and everyone is in for real it doesn't matter, but you would like to have seen more by now. Teams will be better at attacking our secondary after a year on film this year if we cannot manufacture more pressure.

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

Oh, please go **** on another thread, will you?

 

 

 

WWWWHHHHAAAAAAHHHHHH!  Joeysixpackie doesn't like the truth intruding on his fantasy that his heros McDermott and Beane are going to conjure up a respectable OL out of thin air just before the season opener.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

WWWWHHHHAAAAAAHHHHHH!  Joeysixpackie doesn't like the truth intruding on his fantasy that his heros McDermott and Beane are going to conjure up a respectable OL out of thin air just before the season opener.

 

You mad?

 

You seem mad.

 

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

I like McD. Not calling him to be fired nor Beane.

 

a lot of our holes and current cap situation is created by the current FO. They shot themselevs in the foot. I don’t want to turn over the FO, but I am keeping a close eye. Wasn’t a fan of the Darby, Glenn (I do understand this helped us get Allen), or Darius trades. They also failed to bring in quality replacements on the OL.  I think we should have tried harder to keep Preston Brown. Our starting defense as a whole and offensive line could be much better. 

 

Instead we created roster holes and dead cap because Whaley I guess. They’re in a tough spot because they put themselves in a tough spot. 

 

The Dareus trade with the Starr signing, means our starting DT costs us about 25 million this year with salary and dead cap, 

 

Excellent post. 

2 hours ago, njbuff said:

I will say this.

 

2 retirements and the trading of Glenn meant the Bills had to keep Vlad on this roster, force Miller to start and an uninspiring battle to ensue at C.

 

There is precedent to a bad OL derailing an entire season. Ask the 2017 New York Giants.

 

I am no fan of overreacting to preseason, but the OL looks frighteningly bad. All this means is that the QB’s and the RB’s had better prepare to get crushed and there is very little doubt that one (or more) of them will be lost to season-ending injuries.

 

Right now, the OL is going to destroy this season.

 

A crappy OL also did in the 2017 Bengals.  They remedied that quickly by trading for Glenn and drafting a C in the first round (Billy Price I think).  Conversely, signing Andrew Whitworth helped put the LA Rams into the playoffs in 2017 with much more success for Goff and Gurley.

[Freddie's Dead]

OK Kevin Bacon.

 

 

[T master]

The sky may not be falling but a couple of O line players suck & need to be gone or at least used as depth players & let the rookies they have drafted get valuable time on the field !

 

Ducasse & Mills have been nothing less than average or below for the Bills since they have been inserted into the line & for the coach Castillo to put Ducasse in & keep him in while having other more better ? players sitting in wait behind them just shows he (Castillo) could be a problem too !

 

Castillo really has nothing on his resume but a SB ring that he got for signing late in the year to the Ravens when they won their SB beyond that the guy might be a decent position coach but thats all ! He was part of the Andy Reid bad decision to move him to a new position while in Philly & the wheels fell off of that too !

 

I don't know what McD see's in this guy but he ain't no Arron Kromer that's for sure !! I think his blocking scheme's are worth a flip with the people the Bills have !! 

 

If the O line is going to suck at least give them a reason & start some rookies ! But i agree the sky is not falling !! 

[Stanley Lombardi]

5 hours ago, ColdFront_USAF said:

 Maybe put Castillo at quarterback during practice for some motivation, I think fans would enjoy that.

 

 

Genius!

[nbbillsfan]

The only hope we have is that coaches were putting players in tough spots to see if they could handle them, that they won't be put in during the regular season. However, seems no one handled their responsibilities well, and you can't give help to everyone...

[ColoradoBills]

49 minutes ago, T master said:

The sky may not be falling but a couple of O line players suck & need to be gone or at least used as depth players & let the rookies they have drafted get valuable time on the field !

 

Ducasse & Mills have been nothing less than average or below for the Bills since they have been inserted into the line & for the coach Castillo to put Ducasse in & keep him in while having other more better ? players sitting in wait behind them just shows he (Castillo) could be a problem too !

 

Castillo really has nothing on his resume but a SB ring that he got for signing late in the year to the Ravens when they won their SB beyond that the guy might be a decent position coach but thats all ! He was part of the Andy Reid bad decision to move him to a new position while in Philly & the wheels fell off of that too !

 

I don't know what McD see's in this guy but he ain't no Arron Kromer that's for sure !! I think his blocking scheme's are worth a flip with the people the Bills have !! 

 

If the O line is going to suck at least give them a reason & start some rookies ! But i agree the sky is not falling !! 

 

A good rational post.

 

Poor OL play is probably going to happen more than the average fan will like this year.

Castillo is the OL coach and Run game coordinator.  His run blocking scheme is pretty good.

Castillo's pass protection scheme is poor.  Add this to the lower level talent on the OL and the results are not good.

 

I for one am interested in what happens later this week.  Does Beane and McDermott feel that the OL needs attention or will

they stick with what they got.

[thunderingsquid]

[corta765]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Excellent post. 

 

A crappy OL also did in the 2017 Bengals.  They remedied that quickly by trading for Glenn and drafting a C in the first round (Billy Price I think).  Conversely, signing Andrew Whitworth helped put the LA Rams into the playoffs in 2017 with much more success for Goff and Gurley.

 

Exactly. My issue right now with Beane is he has allowed a hole that has been there for a while on the O-line to exist. It is very hard to fill that in the 11th hour and odds are any incoming replacement will be more a band aid not a full on solution. I get Richie leaving wasn't Beane's fault the same with Wood, but two pro bowl caliber players left and we literally replaced them with nothing. Perhaps Wyatt Teller is the real deal and can step in, but even IF he does he will have growing pains like any rookie.

[gobills1212]

6 hours ago, ColdFront_USAF said:

I just had a chance to watch the game on game rewind, as my current time zone did not allow me to watch it live. I think being removed from the anticipation and energy felt during a highly anticipated game helped a bit with perspective. After reading the meltdown on TSW while at work, and then seeing the game for myself, I had a few thoughts.

 

POSITIVES:

 

Josh Allen did not melt down: sure he had an abysmal stat line. I am not a member of the "JA can do no wrong" crowd, and of course I hold him accountable for the errors he made. That under thrown ball (I believe to Kirkpatrick) would have been a pick probably 8 times out of 10, he got away with one there. Then there was the overthrow on the next play, not as dangerous but obviously not ideal.  But aside from those two throws, I saw a young and "raw" player making the most out of an impossible situation. Nothing went his way, but he remained composed and did what he could. He had drops from the two guys he should depend on the most, and the O Line may as well have not been there for a ton of his snaps, yet he did not make any major mistakes, and for a rookie, that's a positive in my book. He also showed good ball security considering he met the turf on pretty much every other play, something that seems to go unnoticed until its a problem.

 

Peterman looks serviceable: As long as Daboll does not commit the Cardinal Sin of calling plays for Peterman (any throw to the outside that requires arm strength), the guy looks like he can get the job done until they feel the time is right for Josh to take over. Just don't do it Brian, for the love of god, stick to the throws he can make to the guys in the blue jerseys.

 

The running game looks solid yet again: Remember, we didn't have our best RB on the field today, and they still ran the ball well without him. Ivory looked like a tank at times, and Marcus Murphy is having one of the best pre-seasons I've seen from a no-name guy, and the Bengals top defense did little to slow him down. With Shady wearing down the front 7, and Ivory bruising them, I think Murph will be an excellent piece for this offense. Also on this topic, the O Line seemed to remember they were playing football when a running play was called, so maybe they aren't entirely useless.

 

Davis bounced back a bit: Okay, that wr made him look ridiculous on that first play. Pretty embarrassing in all honesty. But when he came back in, he seemed to improve. That hit he made late in the game was nasty, and something I hope to see more of during the season.

 

WHY THE SKY IS NOT FALLING

 

We still have time to adjust the O Line: I would bet my next paycheck (it's not very much, so don't get excited) that the line we saw out there today will not be the same configuration we see against the Ravens in week 1. Dawkins wasn't even in the lineup today, and there is still time to replace one of the guards (preferably Duccasse) with Teller or possibly a dumpster dive pickup after cuts. I know they looked awful today, but there are moves that can be made to bring them a bit closer to serviceable.  Maybe put Castillo at quarterback during practice for some motivation, I think fans would enjoy that.

 

The defense was extremely vanilla: I saw a ton of people whining that there was little to no pressure from the front 7. Watching the game, I noticed damn near every snap was a 4 man rush, with Kyle Williams in gym shorts on the side line. We weren't going to build a dominant 4 man front like we saw a few years ago in one offseason, and like the vast majority of teams, we will need to manufacture our pressure with blitzes and a little deception at times. That's to be expected, and very few teams have a 4 man wrecking crew on the line. I expect to see much more variance defensively during the regular season that will help with creating pressure and stuffing the run. There was also little evidence of game planning defensively. If you're leaving AJ Green 1 on 1 with ANY cornerback in the redzone, you're wrong. It should have come to nobody's surprise that he beat Tre for the TD catch on a perfect throw from Dalton. There's a reason he is considered one of the best in the game, and I would absolutely expect more attention to be given to him in a regular season game. The same goes for the rest of the secondary. It really shouldn't be difficult for an experienced qb like Dalton to pick apart a vanilla cover 2 defense with little in the way of blitzing. Not a huge concern for me at this point.

 

Last, this team is still a work in progress: This mostly goes out to the "Fire Beane and McD now" crowd that will inevitably surface after every loss.  Yes, they neglected the O Line and the WR corps this year, and that was probably a mistake. However, for the first time in my lifetime, it would appear that we have a front office with a long term plan in place. They are well aware that we will have a ton of spending money next year, and Beane did a phenomenal job preserving our 2019 draft picks. This means, if executed properly, we may have a huge influx in talent next year, in addition to key guys like Allen and Edmunds getting a year of experience under their belts. Time will tell if it will work out, but for now, hang in there. We are far from a finished product, and the guys in the high level business meetings are well aware of this. 

Good, qlty post. 

This was a good read.  Thanks!!

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

Exactly. My issue right now with Beane is he has allowed a hole that has been there for a while on the O-line to exist. It is very hard to fill that in the 11th hour and odds are any incoming replacement will be more a band aid not a full on solution. I get Richie leaving wasn't Beane's fault the same with Wood, but two pro bowl caliber players left and we literally replaced them with nothing. Perhaps Wyatt Teller is the real deal and can step in, but even IF he does he will have growing pains like any rookie.

  Two positions coming open during the same offseason like they did is hard to overcome when a team has other needs.  I would have a harsher take on Beane if we had relatively few needs outside of OL but reality is that we had many.  I look for a rocky September followed by an improving balance of the season once our starter at center is in place with Teller working his way into the lineup.  We keep all our 2019 picks and go heavy on help for both lines.

[aristocrat]

the sky fell. it hit the ground. it;s over

[frostbitmic]

1. Nobody was lost for the season due to injury

2. I didn't have to pay to see that ass whooping our starters took yesterday

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

A good rational post.

 

Poor OL play is probably going to happen more than the average fan will like this year.

Castillo is the OL coach and Run game coordinator.  His run blocking scheme is pretty good.

Castillo's pass protection scheme is poor.  Add this to the lower level talent on the OL and the results are not good.

 

I for one am interested in what happens later this week.  Does Beane and McDermott feel that the OL needs attention or will

they stick with what they got.

 

They're going to be on the phone to the Raiders promising next year's first rounder and Dion Dawkins for Kalil Mack.

[bmur66]

[RevWarRifleman]

Cold Front, you serving in the Air Force?            Go Bills.

[ColdFront_USAF]

1 hour ago, RevWarRifleman said:

Cold Front, you serving in the Air Force?            Go Bills.

 

Yeah I am. Been stationed overseas for about a year and a half now, so games are at weird times for me.