Lacanfora: Bills have reached out to Raiders about Khalil Mack trade

[billsfan89]

5 minutes ago, napmaster said:

 

We got a 2nd rounder and a starting CB (Gaines) for Watkins.  Unless players are included, the Raiders would get a 1st at a minimum.

 

Also Sammy was on the last year of his rookie contract plus 3 years younger (although with a much bigger injury history) not holding out for a new deal. So even though Sammy wasn't nearly half the player Mack is Sammy came with a lot more favorable terms. That definitely added value to Sammy in terms of a trade. Mack's value as a player is much higher than Sammy's but Mack asking for a contract brings down his value a bit. The Raiders will get a 1st plus a mid round pick or two and possibly a player for Mack. But they aren't getting 2 firsts or a 1st and a 2nd or anything super crazy. The central piece to a package with Mack will be a 1st plus some other value added picks and players. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by billsfan89

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The Raiders are right up against the cap in 2018. But their 2019 situation is pretty good. They have 45 million in space but they also have about 5-6 contracts they could cut to free up 35-45 million more in cap space while not taking much dead money (Jordy Nelson and Bruce Irvin alone would free up 16 million in space while not having any dead cap.) So in terms of 2019 that shouldn't be an issue. But I do not know if their lack of cap space in 2018 is presenting any problems. 

 

I honestly doubt it is the cap since if teams want to they can always find a way around the cap. I think it is more Gruden's old school mindset of wanting to set their standard of not tolerating holdouts. I think this will end with a trade to the Packers. They will give the Raiders the Saints 1st plus their own 4th in 2019 along with a conditional 4th that could be a 3rd. That's not a bad return as the Raiders set up a nice 2019 draft and have a ton of cap space. But they really should have realized how special Mack is and given him a contract. 

 

...I think you're DEAD ON...nice assessment.....BUT...who is in charge of this ship, Gruden or McKenzie?......

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

You make some good points, but Sammy is a full three years younger than Mack.  That makes a difference.  Sure Mack could be highly productive into his 30s, but he’s on the small side for an edge rusher and might not be nearly as effective if he loses a step. Mack might turn out to be dominant for years to come, but these are things a team will think about before committing $60 million guaranteed to a player, not mention giving up premium draft picks.  I say Mack can be had in exchange for one first round pick.

 

I think one first will be the central component for a trade but I speculate that 2 additional mid round picks will likely be what is traded for Mack, Something in the range of 2019 1st and a 2019 3rd (Swapped with the Raiders 5th) and a 2020 3rd (Once again Swapped with the Raiders 5th) along with maybe a throw in player that isn't of high value (think EJ Gaines during the Sammy trade.) That's not crazy since the amounts to a 1st and two 4th rounders plus a player of modest to no consequence. 

 

Overall it will be a decent return for the Raiders but not a crazy one. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by billsfan89

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...I think you're DEAD ON...nice assessment.....BUT...who is in charge of this ship, Gruden or McKenzie?......

 

I’d bet on the man with his own Brinks truck. I’ll say it again, even a decade ago Gruden wore people out, especially players. Too many players thought he was a weasel and had bad things to say from his Bucs days. I’m sure some liked him, but....I don’t see this as a big win for Raiders fans. 

[FearLess Price]

10 hours ago, LikeIGiveADarn said:

 

Pretty much. Not enough fluid cash to put into escrow for his signing bonus

 

Yeah so you cant blame Gruden. Blame whoever made his contract witout accounting for maks salary. A good head coach is worth more than 1 player in most cases tho

[BuffaloBillyG]

17 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...I think you're DEAD ON...nice assessment.....BUT...who is in charge of this ship, Gruden or McKenzie?......

Follow the money. There is no way even an idiot like Davis hands Gruden that large and that long of a contract without handing him the reigns. And I don't believe Gruden leaves his cushy TV job without being in control.

[billsfan89]

10 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’d bet on the man with his own Brinks truck. I’ll say it again, even a decade ago Gruden wore people out, especially players. Too many players thought he was a weasel and had bad things to say from his Bucs days. I’m sure some liked him, but....I don’t see this as a big win for Raiders fans. 

 

I think longer term they might end up making the right decision on Mack despite doing it for piss poor reasons. If they a respectable haul of picks for Mack (which I suspect they might, let just say a 1st and two 3rd round picks spread out across 2 drafts) they will set themselves up nicely to address their needs in 2019 having a good amount of cap space (so much more if Mack isn't on the books) and draft picks along with a good young QB in place. But they could also lose one of the best pass rushers in the game who might have 4-5 great seasons left in him for a late 1st round pick and some upper mid round selections that might not pan out. 

 

Pass rushers like Mack aren't easy to find, I think the Raiders will quickly see that.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Follow the money. There is no way even an idiot like Davis hands Gruden that large and that long of a contract without handing him the reigns. And I don't believe Gruden leaves his cushy TV job without being in control.

 

This had to be about his ENORMOUS ego. Could he not get by on his $5mil or so per year from TV and cruised to the finish line? 

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I think longer term they might end up making the right decision on Mack despite doing it for piss poor reasons. If they a respectable haul of picks for Mack (which I suspect they might, let just say a 1st and two 3rd round picks spread out across 2 drafts) they will set themselves up nicely to address their needs in 2019 having a good amount of cap space (so much more if Mack isn't on the books) and draft picks along with a good young QB in place. But they could also lose one of the best pass rushers in the game who might have 4-5 great seasons left in him for a late 1st round pick and some upper mid round selections that might not pan out. 

 

Pass rushers like Mack aren't easy to find, I think the Raiders will quickly see that.

 

I don’t see people knocking down the doors for him. The longer it takes, the lower the price I suspect. The contract demands makes him less attractive, so the Raiders get less. Just my guess. Mack will be lucky if he gets out. 

[JaCrispy]

Before this whole situation with Mack started, I sort of envisioned potentially having to draft DE #1 in 2019- just looking at how our roster was shaking out...if Beane is serious about Mack, it’s a good bet he may have been predicting the same as well- in which case, spending a first rounder may not be that big of s deal to him.

[billsfan89]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

This had to be about his ENORMOUS ego. Could he not get by on his $5mil or so per year from TV and cruised to the finish line? 

 

It could also be boredom. Gruden has been in the booth for a decade. He knows what that is and got comfortable doing it. I think at his age (Gruden is 55) he has to know that it is pretty much now or never to get back into coaching. He is still young enough by the standards of coaches and I think the insane offer of money and control from the Raiders was just too good to pass up. All these coaches are egotistical control freaks. Gruden just had too good of a position in the booth to leave for a less than immaculate offer but one team finally gave him what he wanted for some reason. 

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I don’t see people knocking down the doors for him. The longer it takes, the lower the price I suspect. The contract demands makes him less attractive, so the Raiders get less. Just my guess. Mack will be lucky if he gets out. 

 

There is supposedly a lot of interest in Mack from various teams, we just don't know if the Raiders asking price is too high or if the offers are coming in low. Some team will give up a least a first round pick for him in my estimation. I think this is a case of the Raiders holding out for more than what his value to another team is. I think the Packers would package the Saints first rounder with a couple of their mid round picks but I suspect the Raiders want at the very least a first, a second in 2020 and a mid round pick in 2019 plus a player. 

 

Mack is an elite player and even factoring in his contract demands which make him less valuable (You have to essentially give up draft capital and cap space for him) I still think a 1st rounder will be included in the trade package to get him. It won't be 2 first rounders or anything insane but give past trades of this nature Mack is the kind of player that some win now team would be willing to take a risk on. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

13 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Follow the money. There is no way even an idiot like Davis hands Gruden that large and that long of a contract without handing him the reigns. And I don't believe Gruden leaves his cushy TV job without being in control.

 

 

....LMAO bro......

1. Mark is Wacky Al's Kid; the wackier the merrier.

2. That bowl top trim is "Moe in red"; same mentality;

3. 10 year stale Chuckie gets $100 mil; where else but duh Raiders?

4. Silent Reggie is lining up his UBER ride.

 

...."The Real Housegirls of Oakland"......

 

[beerme1]

7 hours ago, nucci said:

Ok, but he's holding out for a new contract while he is still under contract......is that the culture  you're talking about?

 

 

Would you not have wanted Bruce Smith? Seems to me this was a regular occurrence with him if I recall.  Always felt he was worth more than he was getting and would hold out a little while from camp or preseason. 

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Mack is also coming off a disappointing season. I'm worried he may have already played his best ball, and may be a very good, but not top tier elite player on his second contact.

 

What statistic gives you that fact?

Mack just came off 10.5 sacks with 61 solo tackles and a combined 78 tackles.  That's All Pro for a DE.

 

 

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Not really. Bosa, Chandler Jones, Campbell, Miller, Lawrence are all top tier with a lot more just behind them. You don't need the best, you need one of the best.

 

Don't bring up Lawrence.  Him and Mack came into the league at the same time.  Lawrence's numbers are no where close to Mack's and he signed a

one year contract (because he can't stay healthy) for over 17 million.

 

Von Miller, yeah he's great that's why he is the highest paid.  Mack is in the same category.

 

Chandler Jones was a disappointment in NE, that's why he was traded.  He is much better in Arizona but still not the all around player Mack is.

 

Bosa could be exceptional.  If so he will command close to 25 million a year when his rookie contract is up.

If the Chargers wait to pay him the way the Raiders are doing with Mack, he will leave too.

 

So if your conclusion is Mack may not be the best because of Von Miller or maybe Bosa....................

 

 

[Augie]

15 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

It could also be boredom. Gruden has been in the booth for a decade. He knows what that is and got comfortable doing it. I think at his age (Gruden is 55) he has to know that it is pretty much now or never to get back into coaching. He is still young enough by the standards of coaches and I think the insane offer of money and control from the Raiders was just too good to pass up. All these coaches are egotistical control freaks. Gruden just had too good of a position in the booth to leave for a less than immaculate offer but one team finally gave him what he wanted for some reason. 

 

There is supposedly a lot of interest in Mack from various teams, we just don't know if the Raiders asking price is too high or if the offers are coming in low. Some team will give up a least a first round pick for him in my estimation. I think this is a case of the Raiders holding out for more than what his value to another team is. I think the Packers would package the Saints first rounder with a couple of their mid round picks but I suspect the Raiders want at the very least a first, a second in 2020 and a mid round pick in 2019 plus a player. 

 

Mack is an elite player and even factoring in his contract demands which make him less valuable (You have to essentially give up draft capital and cap space for him) I still think a 1st rounder will be included in the trade package to get him. It won't be 2 first rounders or anything insane but give past trades of this nature Mack is the kind of player that some win now team would be willing to take a risk on. 

 

I’d go with a first and a player (Yeah, YOU, Jerry). I don’t see a lot more just because Mack will not be a cheap deal, like the 1st rounder would. But you DO know what you’re getting. Sending Hugh’s saves some $$$. 

[ndirish1978]

I think the real question is "would you draft Khalil Mack with next year's first rounder?" Cause we gave up TWO first round picks for Watkins and he turned out to be meh. I don't get the people balking at getting a DPOY for an early draft pick.

[JGMcD2]

3 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

I think the real question is "would you draft Khalil Mack with next year's first rounder?" Cause we gave up TWO first round picks for Watkins and he turned out to be meh. I don't get the people balking at getting a DPOY for an early draft pick.

We didn’t give up two first round picks for Watkins. We swapped our first round pick with Cleveland’s first round pick. Then we traded them a future future first round pick. 

 

2014 Bills 1st Round Pick + 2015 Bills 1st Round Pick - 2014 Browns 1st Round Pick = 1 First Round Pick given up for Sammy Watkins. 

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said:

We didn’t give up two first round picks for Watkins. We swapped our first round pick with Cleveland’s first round pick. Then we traded them a future future first round pick. 

 

2014 Bills 1st Round Pick + 2015 Bills 1st Round Pick - 2014 Browns 1st Round Pick = 1 First Round Pick given up for Sammy Watkins. 

Please not this again...

 

 

[ndirish1978]

5 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

We didn’t give up two first round picks for Watkins. We swapped our first round pick with Cleveland’s first round pick. Then we traded them a future future first round pick. 

 

2014 Bills 1st Round Pick + 2015 Bills 1st Round Pick - 2014 Browns 1st Round Pick = 1 First Round Pick given up for Sammy Watkins. 

 

We spent 2 first round picks for the right to draft him, stop the semantics. Did we draft in the first round of 2015?

[ColoradoBills]

10 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

We didn’t give up two first round picks for Watkins. We swapped our first round pick with Cleveland’s first round pick. Then we traded them a future future first round pick. 

 

2014 Bills 1st Round Pick + 2015 Bills 1st Round Pick - 2014 Browns 1st Round Pick = 1 First Round Pick given up for Sammy Watkins. 

 

Don't forget the 2015 4th round pick!

[Nihilarian]

4 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

We spent 2 first round picks for the right to draft him, stop the semantics. Did we draft in the first round of 2015?

If you say it like this...

 

The Bills traded their 9th overall pick in the 2014 NFL draft along with a 2015, 1st round pick, and a 2015 4th round pick to move up to 2014, #4 overall spot to select Sammy Watkins. 

 

The Buffalo Bills SPENT two firsts and a fourth on Watkins.