Peter King / PFF on "ball placement" (Josh Allen related)

[Chandler#81]

15 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

I mean he already killed a play, so I assume he has other options. Is it so hard to believe that he just hasn't figured out how to read that yet? It's not like he is used to playing against pro quality defenses or anything. 

Thanks for asking. Perhaps -though I’m skeptical, you can learn something..

Watch the 2 plays again. Both times the CB snuck up to blitz 1 second prior to the snap. Absolutely no time to audible. More importantly, Grasshopper, the reason he did is because his responsibility pre set changed, allowing the opportunity to blitz. The true problem here is the Offensive alignment, which is on Daboll -especially since Cleveland took advantage of it TWICE in the same Quarter. 

You’re welcome.

[Trogdor]

21 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Thanks for asking. Perhaps -though I’m skeptical, you can learn something..

Watch the 2 plays again. Both times the CB snuck up to blitz 1 second prior to the snap. Absolutely no time to audible. More importantly, Grasshopper, the reason he did is because his responsibility pre set changed, allowing the opportunity to blitz. The true problem here is the Offensive alignment, which is on Daboll -especially since Cleveland took advantage of it TWICE in the same Quarter. 

You’re welcome.

Did he or did he not miss the blitz both times? When you emphasized untouched you were basically saying not his fault. He used a hard count earlier to try and figure the defense out, which impressed me a lot. It's ok to admit that he isn't perfect. I'm sure he still dreams about you like you do him.

[TigerJ]

The question was raised about Nate Peterman's ball placement.  I couldn't find any numbers, but ran across this comment in a pre draft scouting report from 2017:  "The biggest weakness in Peterman's game is his ball placement. He has a tendency at times to sail deep throws and will throw short on passes in the middle of the field."

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/chicago-bears/Bolt/Chicago-Bears-2017-NFL-Draft-prospect-profile-Pitt-QB-Nathan-Peterman-52407627/

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

Did he or did he not miss the blitz both times? When you emphasized untouched you were basically saying not his fault. He used a hard count earlier to try and figure the defense out, which impressed me a lot. It's ok to admit that he isn't perfect. I'm sure he still dreams about you like you do him.

 

I didn't know it was the QBs job to block people.

If somebody is untouched then it's not the QBs fault.

 

[Trogdor]

16 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I didn't know it was the QBs job to block people.

If somebody is untouched then it's not the QBs fault.

 

It is when it's his responsibility to account for him. It wasn't anyone's job to block him because it wasn't recognized pre-snap. That's what makes it his fault as the guy who has to account for outside rushers like that. I feel like this is going off the rails lol, it's two mistakes in an otherwise great game from him. My problem is that we will just overlook things for the sake of the Kool Aid. 

[SouthNYfan]

18 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

It is when it's his responsibility to account for him. It wasn't anyone's job to block him because it wasn't recognized pre-snap. That's what makes it his fault as the guy who has to account for outside rushers like that. I feel like this is going off the rails lol, it's two mistakes in an otherwise great game from him. My problem is that we will just overlook things for the sake of the Kool Aid. 

 

Are you kidding me?

You literally think that the only person responsible for an untouched blocker is the QB?

You need to open your eyes and stop the bs.

Telling me I'm drinking the koolaid!?

Allen is a rookie.

With barely 4 quarters of preseason game time.

You're seriously going to jump down his throat for untouched blitzers?

Go home man.

Your Allen hate is obvious.

[Trogdor]

41 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Are you kidding me?

You literally think that the only person responsible for an untouched blocker is the QB?

You need to open your eyes and stop the bs.

Telling me I'm drinking the koolaid!?

Allen is a rookie.

With barely 4 quarters of preseason game time.

You're seriously going to jump down his throat for untouched blitzers?

Go home man.

Your Allen hate is obvious.

He missed it just two times and I said outside of that he was great and yet I'm jumping down his throat? Untwist your panties. In this case on that type of blitz that man is his responsibility. I already stated he is new and that's why I figured he missed it. It's not a big deal on his part. My issue was that there seems to be people placing blame on other players for his screw up instead of just saying he is learning. Maybe reread the whole thread first. 

[ricojes]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Allen has had a few off target throws............but off target where they weren't going to result in a tipped interception.   Like the pass Allen put on Murphy's right hip in Cleveland.

 

I know he's taken a bit of criticism for the velocity on some short throws but I don't think that's really justified.........the placement has been good making them easily catchable and giving them a chance to make a move after they get the ball as well as avoid a collision.......those who want tenderly delivered short passes that beg to be jumped by the defense need more Peterman.

And a couple of those off target throws were miscommunications. 

 

As for the short throw velocity, I think it's a great weapon.  I am not talking about screen passes, but a 4 yard curl in which he fires the ball is very difficult to defend and is as good as a run.  I think we'll see a lot of those this Sunday.

[SouthNYfan]

37 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

He missed it just two times and I said outside of that he was great and yet I'm jumping down his throat? Untwist your panties. In this case on that type of blitz that man is his responsibility. I already stated he is new and that's why I figured he missed it. It's not a big deal on his part. My issue was that there seems to be people placing blame on other players for his screw up instead of just saying he is learning. Maybe reread the whole thread first. 

 

I reread the whole thread.

Please explain to me how it's his responsibility to block a guy.

[peterpan]

14 hours ago, Buffalo86 said:

From Peter King's column this morning (apologies if it's already been posted):

 

"I asked Pro Football Focus, which gives me a smart chunk of this column each week, to judge the first-round rookie quarterbacks by a metric you might not know: ball location on throws by the quarterback.

 

The theory: Completion percentage is a good number, but it doesn’t take into account when a quarterback has two receivers with great hands, or whether his three key guys have, say, 30 drops in a season. Adjusted completion percentage is better because it accounts for drops. But ball-location (hitting the receiver in stride with an easily catchable ball) is interesting because in today’s NFL, so many throws are short passes, and how many yards a receiver makes after the catch often depends on the throw. Did the quarterback lead him properly? For the last two years, PFF has charted the ball location of every NFL throw, and also the throws of the current rookie QB crop, made.

 

The top three passers last year in ball-location:

1. Drew Brees 70.4 percent,
2. Tom Brady 65.8 percent,
3. Jimmy Garoppolo 61.9 percent.

 

Baker Mayfield led the draft prospects in 2017 with a ball-location accuracy of 64.9 percent. Through the fist half of the preseason, the best man of the five first-rounders in ball location is Sam Darnold of the Jets. The numbers:

1. Sam Darnold, Jets, 84.6 percent.
2. Josh Allen, Bills, 70.0 percent.
3. Baker Mayfield, Browns, 69.0 percent.
4. Josh Rosen, Cards, 58.3 percent.
5. Lamar Jackson, 36.0 percent.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/20/jon-gruden-raiders-training-camp-fmia-peter-king/

 

It's early & a very small sampe size, but encouraging nonetheless.

Very cool stat, but I have to wonder who is charting the rookies? Go to YouTube and watch rosens videos, no way his % is 58%.  

 

Allen has been very good, and 70% seems about right I guess, but Rosens has been as good maybe even better....? Yet it's 58%??

Edited August 21, 2018 by peterpan

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

watching that play again, the same DB who smashed him to the ground earlier, came flying through untouched (AGAIN!!) and was right on top of him as he was beginning to set his feet. He knew it was big trouble (AGAIN!!) and just zinged it as accurately as he could to the flat. Not perfect placement? Youbetcha. A chance to make something out of a bad play? Youbetcha!(Again!)

 

Yeah it was thrown with the right amount of caution.........Murphy was going to have to break a tackle to get more than a couple yards out of it.     When I was listening on the radio Murph made it sound like a bad throw but it was catchable and not thrown where the defense could possibly get it and didn't lead Murphy into a big hit.     Maybe Allen decided where to put that ball or maybe it was just errant........but I wish Nate Peterman would be safely errant a lot more.     And don't cue up the Peterman deep sideline pass versus the Chargers that went 5 yards out bounds with no pressure.   That's not what I mean by safely errant.?  

[Green Lightning]

4 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Did he or did he not miss the blitz both times? When you emphasized untouched you were basically saying not his fault. He used a hard count earlier to try and figure the defense out, which impressed me a lot. It's ok to admit that he isn't perfect. I'm sure he still dreams about you like you do him.

My friend, you are dealing with the Josh can do no wrong crowd. As you experienced, they will continue to argue long and loud or be condescending and rude. They may be right, but won't suffer any notion that the kid needs some work. I do look forward to Sunday and hope for his further progress. And I too am happy he won't face the starting DL of the Browns.

[Captain Murica]

That stat line is racist.

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I reread the whole thread.

Please explain to me how it's his responsibility to block a guy.

Jesus Christ, when a DB drops down to blitz it's the QBs job to pick that up. Not to do the actual blocking. He didn't read the blitz either time, that's all I'm saying. A lot of pro-QBs don't see it either, but it's still their fault. 

[SouthNYfan]

14 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Jesus Christ, when a DB drops down to blitz it's the QBs job to pick that up. Not to do the actual blocking. He didn't read the blitz either time, that's all I'm saying. A lot of pro-QBs don't see it either, but it's still their fault. 

 

Still not sure how it's the QBs fault that on two different plays the DB blitzed UNTOUCHED.

 

27 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

My friend, you are dealing with the Josh can do no wrong crowd. As you experienced, they will continue to argue long and loud or be condescending and rude. They may be right, but won't suffer any notion that the kid needs some work. I do look forward to Sunday and hope for his further progress. And I too am happy he won't face the starting DL of the Browns.

 

He does need work.

I'm still falling to see how it's completely 100% his fault that on two separate occasions the DB blitzed completely UNTOUCHED.

[Fadingpain]

As the OP notes, the sample size is so small as to be statistically meaningless.

 

But it's still nice to see that Allen's accuracy has been refreshingly good.

 

[Mikey152]

19 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Jesus Christ, when a DB drops down to blitz it's the QBs job to pick that up. Not to do the actual blocking. He didn't read the blitz either time, that's all I'm saying. A lot of pro-QBs don't see it either, but it's still their fault. 

 

I feel like you are saying this because that is what Tim Couch said...

 

It is his job to read the safeties, because that is what tells him what kind of coverage they are in...It is NOT necessarily his job to set protections and since this was week two of preseason, I highly doubt they had safety blitz audibles assigned. 

 

He missed it the first time.  He did what he could with the play that was called the second time.  Thats all we know.  Anything beyond that is you putting your narrative one something you just don't know.

[Trogdor]

5 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Still not sure how it's the QBs fault that on two different plays the DB blitzed UNTOUCHED.

 

 

He does need work.

I'm still falling to see how it's completely 100% his fault that on two separate occasions the DB blitzed completely UNTOUCHED.

I mean what don't you understand about his responsibility? The untouched comment was because the other poster made it seem as though that was someone else's fault. It's not that he was untouched, it was that he had trouble picking it up in the first place. You're really fighting the good fight here huh? 

[SouthNYfan]

Just now, Trogdor said:

I mean what don't you understand about his responsibility? The untouched comment was because the other poster made it seem as though that was someone else's fault. It's not that he was untouched, it was that he had trouble picking it up in the first place. You're really fighting the good fight here huh? 

 

Once again.

The DB came up basically as the ball was snapped.

When was he supposed to audible or call for a new blocking assignment?

The onus doesn't fall completely on his shoulders.

UNTOUCHED Blitzer TWICE.

Why didn't anybody else pick it up?

What aren't you getting here?

[SoCoBills]

6 hours ago, Mikey152 said:

 

You assume that he is calling the blocking scheme and that they have audibles installed in a preseason game...my guess is they do not.  He threw it to his hot read...that is likely all he had regarding options.

 

Of course he has the ability to set protections. EVERY quarterback and I mean EVERY single one is expected to do this. I’ve heard of a rare situation or 2 where an inexperienced qb had an experienced center make all the line calls from time to time but that’s not the norm. 

 

SouthNYFan - the good ones account for that. In the end no matter what it is up to the quarterback to account for protections and make adjustments presnap. Brady isn’t rarely sacked just because he has some sort of super human OL. He gets the ball out fast for one and he’s also rarely fooled by defensive looks and sets his protections properly. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by SoCoBills