Does the play of the other QBs impact Allen’s timeline?

[Augie]

On 8/18/2018 at 4:09 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t necessarily disagree as it’s playing out that way. The point was if the Bills are comfortable with either guy (or McCarron pre-injury) who would start? They might believe that Allen is at a point where he cannot be ruined but Peterman gives them a better chance to win. It’s kind of like the Savage - Watson situation last year. I’m not saying that’s the case but it’s an interesting discussion IMO. What takes priority, winning now, or developing Allen? Those don’t necessarily have to be different but if they are which way do the Bills go?

 

Handling Allen properly is definitely the way to go. Period. Now, could he be ready week 1? Sure? If not, take your time. THIS is not the season. 

[greeneblitz]

On 8/18/2018 at 4:03 PM, NewEra said:

I’d throw Peterman to the Ravens, Chargers and Vikings so Allen doesn’t die

No coach would ever do this.

[formerlyofCtown]

On 8/18/2018 at 8:41 PM, Rochesterfan said:

 

I don’t fully disagree, but Allen also missed a pretty easy blitz that led to his sack, Peterman saw a similar blitz and found the open TE for a touchdown.

 

The TD play was the good you get with Allen, the missed Blitz/sack and the 4th down in game 1 were the bad.  

 

What we we have not seen is how he reacts if teams game plan for Allen specifically.  He has a visible weakness with quick short passes to the RB - especially to the left it seems.  He also looks uncomfortable when under pressure from blitzes.  If teams blitz from the right and force that time and again - how does he deal - we don’t know yet.  

 

That does not mean don’t start him, but Peterman for whatever you want to say has completed 85% (missed 3 for the entire preseason) of his passes in the two weeks and has 2 TDs and has taken only one sack for no loss of yards.  It is not like Peterman has looked inept.  He just is no where near as dynamic as Allen.

Peterman has played terrible if you ask some of the bias folk on this board.  He apparently has thrown 6 INTs in a game this preseason oh wait that was last year in his very first start of his rookie season.  He's looked good which has me excited that we may have two viable starters.

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s pretty naive to think that. There hasn’t been a QB EVER picked in the first 10 picks that wasn’t given the job. The Bills used a 1st and 2 seconds in him. They didn’t do that with the intention of a competition. Peterman even knows that. The Bills traded away a functioning NFL QB, didn’t sign someone like McCown or Teddy. They cleared the deck. That was because they wanted Allen to have it open.

I agree that they got Tyrod outa here because he was too popular with the players.  No one would have had a chance without dividing the locker room.

 

I don't agree with the notion that they will just hand Allen the job.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 8/18/2018 at 4:16 PM, Kelly the Dog said:

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. I just think that if McD has another momentary lapse of reason and starts Peterman, it won't last much longer than it did last year when they start seeing CBs jump his weak out passes, see him getting crushed under pressure because the OL can't pass block, and see teams put 8-9 in the box most plays and take Shady out of the game, daring Peterman to beat them consistently with downfield passes. It's going to get ugly quick. 

 

That thoroughly sums up what is likely to happen if Peterman starts.   He doesn't have the arm talent or the discretion to play within his limitations.   And the team rolled over like dogs when he started turning the ball over in LA........McD can't afford to have the team lose faith in his process.   As roster talent goes the Bills are still faking it until they make it and as we saw they aren't talented enough to take plays off and not get embarrassed.    

[BullBuchanan]

What happens if we win when he starts against Baltimore? Another fluke? What about the week after, or the week after that?

 

[dlonce]

31 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Peterman has played terrible if you ask some of the bias folk on this board.  He apparently has thrown 6 INTs in a game this preseason oh wait that was last year in his very first start of his rookie season.  He's looked good which has me excited that we may have two viable starters.

I agree that they got Tyrod outa here because he was too popular with the players.  No one would have had a chance without dividing the locker room.

 

I don't agree with the notion that they will just hand Allen the job.

Fans are fans. A group of fans thought Frank Reich was a better QB than Kelly. It’s just the way it is.

 

There is an obvious difference in the two QBs. One throws darts, can make a big play at any moment but is really green.

The other guy throws with much less velocity,has more of a grasp of how NFL defenses play and is fairly green as well.

 

Whom to start? If the Bills had a viable veteran in the midst then that is who I’d start. The rookie could learn from that guy.

We don’t have that guy,or at least one that’s been a starter at some point. 

What’s the benefit keeping JA on the bench?

 

Its a tough call. He could benefit watching real time action with various defensive strategy,dissecting plays with the other QBs and coaches,or he could learn on the job. He’s pretty talented,so maybe he starts.

 

Id start him if I’m McD.

[Kirby Jackson]

59 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Peterman has played terrible if you ask some of the bias folk on this board.  He apparently has thrown 6 INTs in a game this preseason oh wait that was last year in his very first start of his rookie season.  He's looked good which has me excited that we may have two viable starters.

I agree that they got Tyrod outa here because he was too popular with the players.  No one would have had a chance without dividing the locker room.

 

I don't agree with the notion that they will just hand Allen the job.

I’m not even sure we are disagreeing here. I’m not saying that they will hand Allen the job day 1 if they don’t think he’s ready. I also am not naive enough to think that he is here to compete for playing time. These guys invested their careers in him. That’s the reality of the NFL. Coaches and GMs will be judged on their 1st round QBs. Whenever they  think he’s ready the job is his. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, greeneblitz said:

No coach would ever do this.

Oh.  Cool.  

[formerlyofCtown]

6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not even sure we are disagreeing here. I’m not saying that they will hand Allen the job day 1 if they don’t think he’s ready. I also am not naive enough to think that he is here to compete for playing time. These guys invested their careers in him. That’s the reality of the NFL. Coaches and GMs will be judged on their 1st round QBs. Whenever they  think he’s ready the job is his. 

Coaches and GMs will be judged on wins and losses, but you know that.  They will go with the guy they think will win.  If it's a toss up they go with Allen.

[eball]

On 8/18/2018 at 3:49 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

This discussion has been had in various threads and thought that it may be wise to break it out and attach a poll. I’m of the belief that the play of McCarron and/or Peterman has little to no effect on when Allen plays. In my opinion, he is playing when he’s ready. 

 

Hypothetically, as of opening day the Bills believe that Allen is ready to play but Peterman gives them a better chance to win. Who do you think starts? 

 

I can't answer the question phrased in this way because I don't believe that hypothetical is accurate.  We need to define "better chance to win" -- what exactly does that mean and based upon what we as fans have seen/heard why would Peterman give them that better chance?  Knowledge of the playbook?  Ability to get in and out of the huddle?  Reading defenses?  Making accurate throws and correct decisions?  Not turning the ball over?  Allen appears to have checked all of those boxes, plus he can make throws Peterman only has wet dreams about making.

 

I believe McD pumping the brakes on Allen after the Cleveland game is a feeble attempt to slow down the impending runaway train that is Josh Allen becoming the starting QB for the Buffalo Bills.  He's trying to protect the kid from all of the hype and pressure with two weeks to go.

[The Dean]

This is all very interesting, but also all very nebulous. There can be some pretty wide variances in the general concepts of "Ready to play" and "better chance to win".  I mean a player can be "ready enough" or "as ready as he will ever be". A player might give a team a  very slightly better chance to win, or make a big difference and tip the scale of likelihood. So let's see if we can crack this nut.

 

First of all, of course the play of the other QBs has SOME relevance to whether Allen gets the starting nod, game one. I mean if Peterman or AJ really light it up, then I think the plan to let Allen sit for awhile goes relatively undisturbed--at least for a few games. I was going to type "no matter how good Allen looks", but even that is a poor statement. But we know (if we believe their earlier statements) the front office does not want to rush Allen into the job. 

 

The thing is, neither of the top 2 QBs on the roster is blowing the doors off the competition. AJ has been OK, but now he's injured. Peterman has looked pretty good, but we know his skill-set is limited. (I don't think bringing up the 5 INT game is that useful in this evaluation, though.) Still, the FO should be focusing on the long-term success of Allen, and the team. Not simply interested in getting and extra win, or two, early in the season.  Of course, and extra win or two early in the year, can make a big difference to the season record. 

 

The very worst thing that can happen, IMO, is for Allen to be put in a no-win/desperate situation. It greatly increases his chance at being injured and can lead to the QB-killing situations this team has specialized in for many years now. We all blame the individual players, but we have to know some of the failed Bills QBs of the past few years, could have had very different careers had they had more favorable situations when they first started to play. For the sake of the team, long term, I really hope they don't screw this one up.

 

And, yes, as has been noted, Allen is likely to make the line look a little better, given his quick release, ability to move around and arm strength. The team (and crowd) seem to really come alive when Josh is behind center. That's one of the reasons this thread is so interesting. I just hope they give Allen a shot with the ones, this week. But in the end, I'm ready to trust the HC on this one. I think McDermott's judgement has been very good, so far. The one big decision that seems to have failed (according to most) is starting Peterman against the Chargers. But even that move may have been successful. Tyrod was in a funk and playing poorly. It's possible that his sitting helped to turn things around for him, a bit. It's very possible the bills start Tyrod instead of Nate and actually don't make the playoffs. Same thinking goes for Deshaun Watson. Everyone saying it was a mistake to sit him early in the year. Really? Give his success when finally getting a start, I'd say it worked great. You shouldn't assume Deshaun would have had as good of a year, had he been forced to start Week 1, when the team was still working out their kinks. I was as big of a Watson fan as anyone, but I'm not questioning how he was handled.

 

I guess I'm just ready to "trust the process", for now anyway.

[BuffaloHokie13]

No