oldmanfan Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 3 hours ago, SoTier said: IMO, the emperor's strutting around buck naked, and all the Bills believers refuse to admit to what they see. The Bills have been shedding expensive players via FA and trade and replacing them with cheaper, not as good players and rookies, especially on the offense, since McDermott was hired. Contrary to the storyline from the Bills true believers, that's pretty much SOP for the Bills for the last twenty years. Lie to yourself about the Bills if you want, but I'll continue to call them as I see them, and I see Beane as just another in a line of Bills GMs more interested in increasing team revenues than in winning games. You're insane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieG Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 18 minutes ago, dlonce said: That is exactly right. Clevelands attempting to change culture, they threw the kitchen sink at the Bills. It’s a Pre Season game for Christ sake. Our OL wasn’t prepared for it, and don’t think for a minute our players who are penciled in as starters are playing full tilt. Cleveland’s desire to create excitement at home, is why Greggie Williams created a more complex defense for this game. Maybe we could ask teams to take it easy on the OL during the regular season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 3 hours ago, SoTier said: IMO, the emperor's strutting around buck naked, and all the Bills believers refuse to admit to what they see. The Bills have been shedding expensive players via FA and trade and replacing them with cheaper, not as good players and rookies, especially on the offense, since McDermott was hired. Contrary to the storyline from the Bills true believers, that's pretty much SOP for the Bills for the last twenty years. Lie to yourself about the Bills if you want, but I'll continue to call them as I see them, and I see Beane as just another in a line of Bills GMs more interested in increasing team revenues than in winning games. As far as the O line goes, I wouldn't say that other than Glenn they've been "shedding" expensive contracts. Richie shedded himself. A chronic neck injury shedded Wood. But you are absolutely correct that the current personnel is ... really bad. I know PFF's grades aren't the be all and end all, but I think the market for the guys we have pretty much shows it's a consensus opinion among GMs, namely, these 2018 scores: LT Dawkins - Above Average LG Ducasse - Below Average C Bodine - Below Average (Groy will win the job: he rated Average) RG Miller - Poor RT Mills - Below Average Newhouse came in, bringing along his own "Poor" rating, so he's only an upgrade in the sense that there's poor and then there's "rookie poor", which would have been the alternative I guess. It's a really, really bad O line, folks. I understand Beane couldn't fix everything in one offseason, and he focused on other needs. But losing Glenn-Richie-Wood (I know Glenn didn't really play last year, but the expectation is that he would this year) and replacing them with Bodine, Newhouse, the return of Miller the Starter, and rookie Teller? That's not a recipe for improvement, or even for staying the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: What was our record last year? What talented expensive players did we shed? Okay I will bite. 2 former number one draft picks. Sammy and Marcell. A pro bowl OL player Glenn. All were talented and expensive. No matter what you might personally believe. Our record was not any better than the team was under Marrone in 2014 and only one more game than the 1st year under Rex. What does this prove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Time to make some decisions. Put your best 5 out there and let them play. Biggest thing to me is to quit the battle at center - Groy is clearly better and they need to let him play and make the line calls. First quarter guys seemed confused more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlonce Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, CookieG said: Maybe we could ask teams to take it easy on the OL during the regular season? Coming from a guy named Cookie G I find the comment a bit new age. Maybe the regular season is when the line picks it up? You don’t have a line that has worked together, they need time. Teams don’t send multiple blitz packages during practice games. Cleveland did. Teams are usually teaching and attempting to keep players healthy during practice games. Practice games do not count. Williams is an !@#$. This game does not show anything about the value of our line. This is more of an indictment of coaching. If teams are going to throw blitz packages in pre season then coaches have to prepare their players for them. The argument based on one practice game is absurd. Absurdity seems to be the norm anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, dlonce said: Coming from a guy named Cookie G I find the comment a bit new age. Maybe the regular season is when the line picks it up? You don’t have a line that has worked together, they need time. Teams don’t send multiple blitz packages during practice games. Cleveland did. Teams are usually teaching and attempting to keep players healthy during practice games. Practice games do not count. Williams is an !@#$. This game does not show anything about the value of our line. This is more of an indictment of coaching. If teams are going to throw blitz packages in pre season then coaches have to prepare their players for them. The argument based on one practice game is absurd. Absurdity seems to be the norm anymore. With or with out bounties....we should have been ready for greggo to be an ass. He is a great D Corr. Though. Nice to see Allen play well regardless. Edited August 19, 2018 by JaxBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, JaxBills said: With or with out bounties....we should have been ready for greggo to be an ass. He is a great D Corr. Though. Nice to see Allen play well regardless. Yeah, Gregg is a really good defensive coordinator despite (or maybe partly due to?) being an ass. Of course, some of the early line failures involved really talented defensive players (that's what you get when you have the first draft pick every year) simply beating their opposite numbers on the Bills line, and there's nothing that'll change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieG Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 57 minutes ago, dlonce said: Coming from a guy named Cookie G I find the comment a bit new age. Maybe the regular season is when the line picks it up? You don’t have a line that has worked together, they need time. Teams don’t send multiple blitz packages during practice games. Cleveland did. Teams are usually teaching and attempting to keep players healthy during practice games. Practice games do not count. Williams is an !@#$. This game does not show anything about the value of our line. This is more of an indictment of coaching. If teams are going to throw blitz packages in pre season then coaches have to prepare their players for them. The argument based on one practice game is absurd. Absurdity seems to be the norm anymore. New...age? nah, just responding to a post that comes across as whiney. "hey, that's not fair...our guys aren't ready for that!" What you really saw was..expected. You had 3 guys starting that were considered weak links on their Olines, Not including Miller. Bodine was the weak link on the Bengals line for years. There's a reason they let him leave and draft a center pretty high. Vlad's been the weak link on the other 4 team's he's been on..when he's been given the opportunity to actually play. Mills has been our weak link since he's been here. This doesn't even include Newhouse, another weak link with the Raiders. The real absurdity isn't one practice game, its the expectation that 3 or 4 guys, all with at least 4 years of experience, are somehow going to simultaneously have career turnaround years and show some things they haven't been able to show in the past 4, 6 or 8 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 5 hours ago, simpleman said: Okay I will bite. 2 former number one draft picks. Sammy and Marcell. A pro bowl OL player Glenn. All were talented and expensive. No matter what you might personally believe. Our record was not any better than the team was under Marrone in 2014 and only one more game than the 1st year under Rex. What does this prove? Sammy wasn't on the team for one game last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said: Sammy wasn't on the team for one game last year. The post you asked for a statement on said since McD was hired. Sammy was traded after that time, and also the poster mentioned FAs and that would also include Woods and Gilmore as well. While I might have not thought Gilmore was worth what he got, he also was expensive and talented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 9 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: What was our record last year? What talented expensive players did we shed? So, you think that just because the Bills got lucky and won 9 games last last year, cutting offensive talent and replacing them with JAGs and backups or players with well-known injury problems is a formula for success and should be repeated? Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny, too? In 2017, the Bills let Pro Bowl DB Stephon Gilmore and WRs Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin walk in FA. They traded away Sammy Watkins in training camp, and then sent Ronald Darby to Philly for Jordan Matthews. They traded away former Pro Bowler Marcell Dareus during the season. So far in 2018, Eric Wood and Richie Incognito retired and Cordy Glenn was traded. DBs Leonard Johnson, EJ Gaines, and Shareece Wright as well as backup OT Seantrel Henderson left in free agency. Who have they replaced these players with? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behindenemylines Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, SoTier said: So, you think that just because the Bills got lucky and won 9 games last last year, cutting offensive talent and replacing them with JAGs and backups or players with well-known injury problems is a formula for success and should be repeated? Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny, too? In 2017, the Bills let Pro Bowl DB Stephon Gilmore and WRs Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin walk in FA. They traded away Sammy Watkins in training camp, and then sent Ronald Darby to Philly for Jordan Matthews. They traded away former Pro Bowler Marcell Dareus during the season. So far in 2018, Eric Wood and Richie Incognito retired and Cordy Glenn was traded. DBs Leonard Johnson, EJ Gaines, and Shareece Wright as well as backup OT Seantrel Henderson left in free agency. Who have they replaced these players with? You mean the tooth fairy and Easter bunny aren't real? What about Santa...I needs ta know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, SoTier said: So, you think that just because the Bills got lucky and won 9 games last last year, cutting offensive talent and replacing them with JAGs and backups or players with well-known injury problems is a formula for success and should be repeated? Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny, too? In 2017, the Bills let Pro Bowl DB Stephon Gilmore and WRs Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin walk in FA. They traded away Sammy Watkins in training camp, and then sent Ronald Darby to Philly for Jordan Matthews. They traded away former Pro Bowler Marcell Dareus during the season. So far in 2018, Eric Wood and Richie Incognito retired and Cordy Glenn was traded. DBs Leonard Johnson, EJ Gaines, and Shareece Wright as well as backup OT Seantrel Henderson left in free agency. Who have they replaced these players with? You have to be kidding. Most of those guys were gone BEFORE last year. Darby, Gilmore, Goodwin, Watkins, were not here in 2017. Glenn barely played. We were a well coached winning team with a plan. Your argument is reduced to Wood, Incognito and Shareece friggin Wright. So tell me, when we signed Wright last year were you doing cartwheels or whining? Where was the salary cap money with which we were supposed to sign Jerry Rice and Anthony Munoz? This team is headed in the right direction. Don't be too upset when that becomes obvious. 54 minutes ago, simpleman said: The post you asked for a statement on said since McD was hired. Sammy was traded after that time, and also the poster mentioned FAs and that would also include Woods and Gilmore as well. While I might have not thought Gilmore was worth what he got, he also was expensive and talented. I hated the Dammy trade. Look back if you must. Turns out I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said: You mean the tooth fairy and Easter bunny aren't real? What about Santa...I needs ta know Not sure about Santa but there is this "Peter Pan" guy who shows up every now and then! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 On 8/18/2018 at 10:35 AM, Jerome007 said: It's true they looked good in the 1st game. They were so bad last night I forgot about it! How is that possible? Sure the opponents differ but come on. And for the OP, the O Line is discussed in all the threads I've looked. Groy probably won't the starting C job before he even stepped on the field that last game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 On 8/18/2018 at 10:24 AM, NewEraBills said: With the way this OL is he's going to play sooner or later this year anyway. Peterman cannot extend plays and will be a sitting duck. He has a weak arm. It's not a good recipe at all. Bad OL, weak arm QB who cannot extend plays but will have to run for his life. Peterman doesn't need another 5 INT game. It's a major possibility if the OL plays like it did last night. Peterman excels at quick short timing routes and most of the WRs are slot guys. It might just work for a little while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 11 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: You have to be kidding. Most of those guys were gone BEFORE last year. Darby, Gilmore, Goodwin, Watkins, were not here in 2017. Glenn barely played. We were a well coached winning team with a plan. Your argument is reduced to Wood, Incognito and Shareece friggin Wright. So tell me, when we signed Wright last year were you doing cartwheels or whining? Where was the salary cap money with which we were supposed to sign Jerry Rice and Anthony Munoz? This team is headed in the right direction. Don't be too upset when that becomes obvious. I hated the Dammy trade. Look back if you must. Turns out I was wrong. We had multiple blowouts, poor clock management, and the penalty issues are still there. I'm not sure you can just jump straight to well coached. It wasn't the first time they finished 9-7, but it was the weakest year for the AFC. They grabbed two offensive linemen and they were both rated as the worst or bottom tier for their position. Dawkins was the one guy I was sure of and he got pushed around like a little boy last game. The DT they paid to stop the run has graded out poorly against the run since his rookie season and hasn't looked impressive at all. It's not a great situation for a very young basically OLB trying to learn to play MLB in the NFL. There is no depth behind what little talent we have, so it's going to be a rough year. They should hire a therapist just for Incognito and kick the tires on him again. At least Dawkins Incognito and Groy would give Shady one side to run to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Trogdor said: Peterman excels at quick short timing routes and most of the WRs are slot guys. It might just work for a little while. Everyone is until the defense is playing press coverage. Also, I'm not sure "excels" is the word I would use. If he excelled at anything it seems to me there wouldn't even be a competition at QB. Just design a short passing attack and let this guy lead it since he "excels". Edited August 20, 2018 by NewEraBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, Trogdor said: Peterman excels at quick short timing routes and most of the WRs are slot guys. It might just work for a little while. I wouldn't say he excels....DBs have jumped the routes and broken up and almost intercepted him this preseason.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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