Not sure what they see in Ducasse

[Davejr511]

51 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

Dawkins’ got bulldozed resulting in McCarron’s injury.

 

 

#88 Lee did a horrible job chipping Garrett. Didn't slow him down one bit. So Garrett pretty much had a running start on Dawkins.

[SoTier]

11 minutes ago, buffaloaggie said:

LOL, starter in a preseason game. Holds the ball too long, panics badly in the face of pressure. Allen, with basically the same cast, did pretty well last night. AJ is 3rd string in Buffalo.

 

Agree, Dawkins let Garrett have a run by setting up WAY too deep. Very correctable, and wasn't a whiff, just bad technique. Ducasse has a habit of using bad technique. There was another play where Ducasse and Bodine double teamed Ogunjobi, and then they both let him go, leading to a sack. There's a lot of correction that needs to happen from this game film.

 

 

We're back to the "blame the QB" scenario.  Sorry, dude, but McCarron was out there when the Browns were playing their #1 D against the Bills #1 O.  The Bills #1 O played the entire first half while the Browns #1 D was done at the end of the first quarter ... which happened to coincide with Allen coming in and the Bills offense, especially the OL, playing better.   The first quarter OL performance is likely what we'll see in the regular season regardless of who's the QB, although I have no doubt whoever is under center will be scapegoated just like Taylor was last season.

[ddaryl]

Out of curiosity, was it Clevelands 2nd string D when Allen came in....? 

 

Wasnt to happy with the 1st string on both sides of the ball last night.... 

[Matt_In_NH]

He threw that punk to the ground.  It was kind of awesome in a way

[ddaryl]

10 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

We're back to the "blame the QB" scenario.  Sorry, dude, but McCarron was out there when the Browns were playing their #1 D against the Bills #1 O.  The Bills #1 O played the entire first half while the Browns #1 D was done at the end of the first quarter ... which happened to coincide with Allen coming in and the Bills offense, especially the OL, playing better.   The first quarter OL performance is likely what we'll see in the regular season regardless of who's the QB, although I have no doubt whoever is under center will be scapegoated just like Taylor was last season.

 

 

Lets get one thing clear Taylor was a problem and he showed those problems last night for Cleveland. Last year we had woods and incognito so I dont think people wil be blaming QB play if the OL is a seive this year. Our OL is a concern 

Edited August 18, 2018 by ddaryl

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 hour ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Dawkins set way to deep. Easy money for someone like Garrett. Easily corrected.

Unfortunate. Dawkins is the least of our worries.

 

Truth, I am not going to go back to my football days because that would be cartoonish.

 

still, though, why does it seem like that the problems with offensive lineman seem so fixable and just plain never get fixed? 

 

Your feet CAN get quicker.  It's not like a 40 time.

 

You CAN impose your will against a fast defensive end on first contact, especially when you are the bigger man.

 

You CAN reek havoc against players on their way to your qb, even if you are just simply messing up their plan.

 

ironically, protecting a QB for an offensive line should be more "offensive" instead of the generations of defensive fall back and just TRY to hold your ground a bit mentality.

 

It's frustrating. 

[SoTier]

7 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

Out of curiosity, was it Clevelands 2nd string D when Allen came in....? 

 

Wasnt to happy with the 1st string on both sides of the ball last night.... 

 

Yes.  One of the announcers mentioned that.  I think the original plan for the Bills was to only play the 1s for the first quarter or maybe 1 series with Allen, but I think that they were so bad in the first quarter that they stayed in the entire first half.  I think that the first D also played into the second quarter, maybe all of the first half, too, with some substitutions, but I'm not sure.

 

The 1s on both sides of the ball sure stunk it up against the Browns' 1s, which is very worrisome.

[SoTier]

6 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

Lets get one thing clear Taylor was a problem and he showed those problems last night for Cleveland. Last year we had woods and incognito so I dont think people wil be blaming QB play if the OL is a seive this year. Our OL is a concern 

 

I'm not holding Taylor blameless, but Bills fans have been using their QBs as scapegoats for poor OL play since 2003 when they blamed Drew Bledsoe for "holding the ball too long".  Sometimes they've been correct but most times it's been the failure of the Bills FO/GM/HC/whomever has been in charge of personnel to improve the talent on the OL.  Whatever bricks and bats one wants to throw at Doug Whaley, he understood that you can't build a good OL without some investment in talent.  I don't believe that McDermott and Beane, who are supposedly "joined at the hip", do because they seem to be going back to the bad old days of trying to create an NFL caliber OL with non-NFL talent.

[H2o]

Ducasse got blown up on a number of occasions last night. We don't need him starting at LG. God knows I hope they make the right decision. 

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I'm not holding Taylor blameless, but Bills fans have been using their QBs as scapegoats for poor OL play since 2003 when they blamed Drew Bledsoe for "holding the ball too long".  Sometimes they've been correct but most times it's been the failure of the Bills FO/GM/HC/whomever has been in charge of personnel to improve the talent on the OL.  Whatever bricks and bats one wants to throw at Doug Whaley, he understood that you can't build a good OL without some investment in talent.  I don't believe that McDermott and Beane, who are supposedly "joined at the hip", do because they seem to be going back to the bad old days of trying to create an NFL caliber OL with non-NFL talent.

 

Thats because QBs and OCs are almost as influential in how an OL looks as the actual OL is. 

[Solomon Grundy]

Not to defend Vlad in anyway, but that sack looked like it was Clay's fault.

[MAJBobby]

2 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Dawkins - Teller - Groy - Miller - Mills deserves to be the starting OL from what I see. Anyone disagree? Ducasse is the most unathletic lineman on the team. Horrible technique.

 

He is Juans boy. 

[ddaryl]

11 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I'm not holding Taylor blameless, but Bills fans have been using their QBs as scapegoats for poor OL play since 2003 when they blamed Drew Bledsoe for "holding the ball too long".  Sometimes they've been correct but most times it's been the failure of the Bills FO/GM/HC/whomever has been in charge of personnel to improve the talent on the OL.  Whatever bricks and bats one wants to throw at Doug Whaley, he understood that you can't build a good OL without some investment in talent.  I don't believe that McDermott and Beane, who are supposedly "joined at the hip", do because they seem to be going back to the bad old days of trying to create an NFL caliber OL with non-NFL talent.

 

Bledsoe was a bit of a statue..  Our OL has been up and down a buch over the years, but a lot of it has been bad qb play just the same. We all know this to be true... Unfortunately this year we were not going to fix every position in one offseason... And hopefully a bad game is just that... All we can do now is see what happens week 3

[TFBillsfan]

Hope they can improve the OL personnel when rosters are reduced! In its current state it is certainly a major area of concern.

[RochesterRob]

  So, we are about where we thought we would be with a need to address the O line after this season.  Camp tends to distort some things and some players are camp All Pro's but when the pressure is on playing against non-familiar faces some guys can't keep it up.  Anyways, glad that we may have found some answers at RB and perhaps WR but we knew that a full rebuild was going to take longer than the past off season.

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

 

Thats because QBs and OCs are almost as influential in how an OL looks as the actual OL is. 

 

Bull manure.  Coaching, work ethic, and QB play cannot replace talent, and for most of the last 20 years, the Bills have tried to get by with low draft picks, UDFA, and other teams' second teamers manning their OLs.  Yes, you can find talented individuals on Day 3 of the draft and among the ranks of the UDFA, but you need some players with genuine talent, too.

 

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

 

Bledsoe was a bit of a statue..  Our OL has been up and down a buch over the years, but a lot of it has been bad qb play just the same. We all know this to be true... Unfortunately this year we were not going to fix every position in one offseason... And hopefully a bad game is just that... All we can do now is see what happens week 3

 

The Bills knew the kind of QB Bledsoe was when they traded for him.  If you're going to spend resources on a QB, why would you not spend some extra resources to provide him with protection and targets?  This is what I'm afraid that the Bills are doing with Allen, too: depriving him of a real opportunity to succeed by stinting on providing him the support he needs. 

 

If Wood and Incognito were still on the team, the entire OL situation would not be nearly so dire.  The Bills could afford to draft some Day 3 guys like Teller and give them time to develop.  If Glenn were still on the team, Dawkins' poor game wouldn't be so worrisome.  Losing Wood and Incognito should have changed the Bills priorities in acquiring players this past off season, but I don't think it did; McDermott and Beane remained focused on the defense.  

 

[SCBills]

If you’re that into having high draft picks as an indicator of investment into the OL then let me remind you that Dawkins and Ducasse are former 2nd rounders and Miller is a former 3rd round pick. 

 

Our greatest OL of the last two decades was an UDFA in Jason Peters. 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by SCBills

[SoTier]

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

If you’re that into having high draft picks as an indicator of investment into the OL then let me remind you that Dawkins and Ducasse are former 2nd rounders and Miller is a former 3rd round pick. 

 

Our greatest OL of the last two decades was an UDFA in Jason Peters. 

 

 

 

Vlad Ducasse is a bust.  He has never been a starter anywhere except when the guy ahead of him was hurt ... and the Bills didn't draft him.  They signed him relatively cheaply because he was, at best, a backup.

 

I also said that you occasionally found talented players hidden among the Day 3 and UDFA kids but you're not going to find them often enough to build a competent OL.  Look at the teams like Dallas and Philly and NE that are noted for having excellent OLs: most of their OLers come from the first three rounds in the draft because that's pretty much were most of the best players in the NFL comes from.

 

Just because Richard Sherman was a 6th or 7th rounder doesn't mean that a team should ignore drafting DBs on the first two days of the draft, and expect to find their next starting DB from the picks they make on Day 3.

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Bull manure.  Coaching, work ethic, and QB play cannot replace talent, and for most of the last 20 years, the Bills have tried to get by with low draft picks, UDFA, and other teams' second teamers manning their OLs.  Yes, you can find talented individuals on Day 3 of the draft and among the ranks of the UDFA, but you need some players with genuine talent, too.

 

 

The Bills knew the kind of QB Bledsoe was when they traded for him.  If you're going to spend resources on a QB, why would you not spend some extra resources to provide him with protection and targets?  This is what I'm afraid that the Bills are doing with Allen, too: depriving him of a real opportunity to succeed by stinting on providing him the support he needs. 

 

If Wood and Incognito were still on the team, the entire OL situation would not be nearly so dire.  The Bills could afford to draft some Day 3 guys like Teller and give them time to develop.  If Glenn were still on the team, Dawkins' poor game wouldn't be so worrisome.  Losing Wood and Incognito should have changed the Bills priorities in acquiring players this past off season, but I don't think it did; McDermott and Beane remained focused on the defense.  

 

 

Your digging on the Bledsoe thing. That was an entirely differnt era with its own circumstnaces. IMO the OL was good enough then 8 games into that season and all of sudden he stunk. Opposing teams figured it out and adjusted. 

 

It was one poor preseaon games will just have to see what happens week 3... 

Edited August 18, 2018 by ddaryl

[ColoradoBills]

4 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

Truth, I am not going to go back to my football days because that would be cartoonish.

 

still, though, why does it seem like that the problems with offensive lineman seem so fixable and just plain never get fixed? 

 

Your feet CAN get quicker.  It's not like a 40 time.

 

You CAN impose your will against a fast defensive end on first contact, especially when you are the bigger man.

 

You CAN reek havoc against players on their way to your qb, even if you are just simply messing up their plan.

 

ironically, protecting a QB for an offensive line should be more "offensive" instead of the generations of defensive fall back and just TRY to hold your ground a bit mentality.

 

It's frustrating. 

 

The Bills OL is not very talented. 

It also is the "cheapest" line in the league.

 

Groy, who is a backup interior lineman is the highest paid Bills OL man at 2.5 million a year.

Seantrel Henderson walked in FA to Houston for a 1 year 4 million contract.

I know money isn't the only thing but............you get what you pay for.

 

My hope is that the Bills can patch something together and get thru the year along with Josh Allen staying healthy.

Dawkins better stay healthy because if anyone thinks Newhouse can come in and play LT they're crazy.