Bills Offense ‘17 vs ‘18

[billsredneck1]

5 hours ago, Starr Almighty said:

I'd prefer the line to be Dawkins/Groy/Bodine/Miller/Mills

i think miller's natural spot is lg, where i think he could be a rueben brown for us and i think groy's experience might help cover for mills on the right.

 

either way, ducasse needs to be a backup.

[Rochesterfan]

7 hours ago, SCBills said:

Projected ‘18:

 

‘17 Dawkins/Incognito/Wood/Ducasse/Mills

’18 Dawkins/Ducasse/Bodine(Groy)/Miller/Mills

 

-Replace Incognito/Wood with Miller/Bodine(Groy)

 

’17 McCoy/Tolbert/Cadet

’18 McCoy/Ivory/Cadet

 

-Replace Tolbert with Ivory

 

’17 DiMarco

’18 DiMarco

 

’17 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

’18 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

 

’17 KB/Zay/Thompson/Holmes 

‘18 KB/Coleman/Kerley/Zay

 

-Replace Thompson with Coleman/Kerley

 

’17 Tyrod/Peterman 

‘18 McCarron/Allen (or vice-versa)

 

-Replace Tyrod with AJ or Allen

 

On paper, which offense do you prefer?

 

 

 

You missed the biggest change of all:

’17 OC - Dennison - Horizontal/timing passing attack

’18 OC - Daboll - Varied attack week to week - attack multiple levels 

 

To me this is what will make all of the rest of the 2018 starters better.  The attack Daboll wants to run would not work with last years QB and receivers as well.  The change at QB will allow the change at OC to make this a very different and varied offense.

[Captain Murica]

I heard a few local media types stating that Croom can make the team as a 4th team TE. As Daboll uses a lot of TEs in his formations. Joe B stated that Croom is the second best receiving TE on the team. 

 

Just food for thought. Also, they said Groy has replaced Bodine with the 1s. 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Captain Murica said:

I heard a few local media types stating that Croom can make the team as a 4th team TE. As Daboll uses a lot of TEs in his formations. Joe B stated that Croom is the second best receiving TE on the team. 

 

Just food for thought. Also, they said Groy has replaced Bodine with the 1s. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they kept Croom on the active roster.  I've heard he's had some really good practices as well.

 

Groy beating Bodine would make me feel a lot better about this Offensive Line.   I think Miller has some ability and Groy played well when given the chance.  

[BmarvB]

2018. Change in OC will make this unit better

[prissythecat]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I pretty much agree with this though I would say the trade for Coleman has me in a positive mood this morning. I feel for the first time under McDermott we have a 1,2,3 at wide receiver who are all actual NFL starter level talents. That has me somewhat encouraged. The question is can McCarron or Allen get the ball to them consistently?

 

I think you forgot Peterman ;-)   I hear he is in the mix to be starter.

[RyanC883]

I like the 2018 offense MUCH more, at least on paper.  Here is why, in descending order: 

 

1.  New OC.  Even if everything else stayed the same, the new OC will be a vast improvement.  Daboll will have these guys ready and will make more adjustments to opponents week in and out.  

2.  More aggressive scheme.  I expect our QB's to take more chances for big-plays.  This will lessen the "8 in the box" and help the running game.  How smart they are with ball placement will determine if this leads to more INT's or simply more in-completions.  

3.  Healthy Benjamin and Coleman.  This is NOT a bad WR group...on paper.  Let's see what they do on Sunday's.  Add in TE Clay and Kurley, plus depth with our rookies and some vets, and I doubt it is as bad as we believe. 

4.  Running game.  Won't need to ride Shady all day.  A great complement of backups in Cadet, Ivory, etc.  

5.  O-Line.  I'd say this is a wash: Wood was a great character, smart, and tough,  but I'm not sure he was an "all-pro" center.  Above average, without a doubt.  But I think Groy can pickup the slack like he did 2 years ago.  Incognito may have declined this year anyway given his age.  But hopefully Miller can step in and revert to form.  

[C.Biscuit97]

10 hours ago, SCBills said:

Agreed.  

 

I should also add “Replaced Dennison with Daboll”.  

As sad as it is, Dennison has been the better nfl OC.  Daboll has been pretty terrible.  

 

I was never a Tyrod fan but it does blow my mind how people just assume our qbs will definitely be better than him.  Besides a 5 game stretch for AJ on a loaded Bengals team, this guys have proven nothing.  The Bills screwed TT by putting him into a bad offense fit and trading away his best weapon a month before the season.

 

it seems hard to be worse than last year’s offense. But the one thing they did well was take care of the ball.  And for all his faults, TT was a big part of the run game.

[RyanC883]

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Reality is the offense probably will be worse this year, at least in total points scored...BUT the changes made weren’t about this year, they were for the future.

 

TT haters fail to recognize the weapon his legs were.  Our new QBs, need to be quite a bit better than TT as a passer to make up for what he did with his legs.  If they are only slightly better than TT as a passer, then our offense will drop off because our OL is a big question mark right now and they won’t be able to make the plays TT did with his legs.  Not to mention McCoy is older too.

 

I much prefer our 2018 team, but that doesn’t mean it will actually better this year, and it’s ok if it’s not.  We got young QBs, this is about the next 5 to 10 years.  I fully expect and offense heavy offseason and draft next year to give Allen the protection and weapons to succeed.

 

I see your point.  I think our QB's have the ability to mitigate the pressure and hang in the pocket more than TT.   TT was one read and run.   Your overall conclusion is spot-on: the GM is building a sustained winner that can win now and the future.  Plus these guys will likely all be back next year.   I think we go pass-rush and offense (RB--2nd or 3rd round) in next years draft. 

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

As sad as it is, Dennison has been the better nfl OC.  Daboll has been pretty terrible.  

 

I was never a Tyrod fan but it does blow my mind how people just assume our qbs will definitely be better than him.  Besides a 5 game stretch for AJ on a loaded Bengals team, this guys have proven nothing.  The Bills screwed TT by putting him into a bad offense fit and trading away his best weapon a month before the season.

  

 it seems hard to be worse than last year’s offense. But the one thing they did well was take care of the ball.  And for all his faults, TT was a big part of the run game.

 

It will be interesting to see how TT does with more weapons this year.    Oddly, one of them (Coleman) is now on the Bills! 

[Shaw66]

Thanks for the rundown of probably starting lineup vs last season, but I'm not too interested.   What matters much more is Daboll vs. Dennison.  

 

The NFL is about coaching.   Whether McCarron or Allen will be better than Taylor depends on Daboll.  

 

Dennison clearly didn't have it, and I'm hoping Daboll does.   We'll know in a couple of months. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I see your point.  I think our QB's have the ability to mitigate the pressure and hang in the pocket more than TT.   TT was one read and run.   Your overall conclusion is spot-on: the GM is building a sustained winner that can win now and the future.  Plus these guys will likely all be back next year.   I think we go pass-rush and offense (RB--2nd or 3rd round) in next years draft. 

 

It will be interesting to see how TT does with more weapons this year.    Oddly, one of them (Coleman) is now on the Bills! 

It will be interesting to see.  I think Landry is going to have a major drop off in catches but ypc should go up.  The key will be if Gordon is there because he fits TT to a tee.  The Coleman trade doesn’t seem to make sense to me because he’s another guy that fits TT pretty well.

 

i has mixed feelings on Baker but if Tyrod struggles, he is stepping into a good situation. 

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks for the rundown of probably starting lineup vs last season, but I'm not too interested.   What matters much more is Daboll vs. Dennison.  

 

The NFL is about coaching.   Whether McCarron or Allen will be better than Taylor depends on Daboll.  

 

Dennison clearly didn't have it, and I'm hoping Daboll does.   We'll know in a couple of months. 

I was far from a Dennison fan but it seems a little BS to put all of last year’s failings in him.  Hiring a WCO and putting Tyrod into that offense was stupid.  The Bills then traded away their best wr and replaced him with Jordan Matthews.

 

RD sucked but our offensive player evaluation sucked as well.  Hopefully, they are starting to make the right choices.  It all really comes down to Allen.

[eball]

I still think the biggest key to the Bills' 2018 offense is moving from Dennison to Daboll.

[Trogdor]

6 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

I like the 2018 offense MUCH more, at least on paper.  Here is why, in descending order: 

 

1.  New OC.  Even if everything else stayed the same, the new OC will be a vast improvement.  Daboll will have these guys ready and will make more adjustments to opponents week in and out.  

2.  More aggressive scheme.  I expect our QB's to take more chances for big-plays.  This will lessen the "8 in the box" and help the running game.  How smart they are with ball placement will determine if this leads to more INT's or simply more in-completions.  

3.  Healthy Benjamin and Coleman.  This is NOT a bad WR group...on paper.  Let's see what they do on Sunday's.  Add in TE Clay and Kurley, plus depth with our rookies and some vets, and I doubt it is as bad as we believe. 

4.  Running game.  Won't need to ride Shady all day.  A great complement of backups in Cadet, Ivory, etc.  

5.  O-Line.  I'd say this is a wash: Wood was a great character, smart, and tough,  but I'm not sure he was an "all-pro" center.  Above average, without a doubt.  But I think Groy can pickup the slack like he did 2 years ago.  Incognito may have declined this year anyway given his age.  But hopefully Miller can step in and revert to form.  

1. There is nothing in his past that point to him being an effective NFL OC. He was terrible at his previous stops. I hope it's better here. 

2. I'm all for more passing to give Shady some room.

3. A lot of this hinges on them finding the consistency that has eluded them up to this point. 

4. Cadet needs to stay healthy and improve some, but Ivory isn't much of if any improvement over Tolbert. That's sad, but it's the same case of an aging bruiser with declining YPC. 

5. You might be the only person to say the O-line is a wash. Bodine and Newhouse have been pretty terrible at their positions and probably won't add much. Meanwhile, we lost the strongest part of our line. 

[Captain Murica]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they kept Croom on the active roster.  I've heard he's had some really good practices as well.

 

Groy beating Bodine would make me feel a lot better about this Offensive Line.   I think Miller has some ability and Groy played well when given the chance.  

 

 

Yup, he is big and fast. He's a converted WR, so, it'll probably take time for him to adjust to blocking as a TE. 

[Ramza86]

I dont feel good about it at all.

 

I think Mccoy is the only player that can transcend its other members weaknesses. Line cant block...Shady can make a few people miss. 

 

The other groups i dont see the same. WRs cant get separation and help the QB. The QB cant help the WRs. Benjamin might, but i gotta see it and hes gotta be healthy. The line probably wont do the QB any favors in the pocket. Dont see Mccarron or Peterman bailing out the offensive line if they cant block.

 

Everyone really has to do their jobs for this offense to see any kind of success. 

[Kwai San]

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Reality is the offense probably will be worse this year, at least in total points scored...BUT the changes made weren’t about this year, they were for the future.

 

TT haters fail to recognize the weapon his legs were.  Our new QBs, need to be quite a bit better than TT as a passer to make up for what he did with his legs.  If they are only slightly better than TT as a passer, then our offense will drop off because our OL is a big question mark right now and they won’t be able to make the plays TT did with his legs.  Not to mention McCoy is older too.

 

I much prefer our 2018 team, but that doesn’t mean it will actually better this year, and it’s ok if it’s not.  We got young QBs, this is about the next 5 to 10 years.  I fully expect and offense heavy offseason and draft next year to give Allen the protection and weapons to succeed.

 

TT's legs - sheesh louise!  TT's legs didn't mean jack diddly squat in the 4th quarter when the Bills were down by less than 7 in a potentially winnable game.  TT's legs didn't garner enough points to win more games for the Bills when it counted most.  TT's legs didn't do jack diddly squat in the ONLY playoff game that we squeaked into and certainly didn't squeak in due to TT's legs.

 

Enough already about TT and whatever intangible he supposedly had - yes at times, and they were few, he was exciting.  Exciting doesn't win games.  Exciting causes heartburn and anguish when you realize exciting isn't going to get it done.  Face it - 4th qtr, 2 mins left, you KNEW in your heart of hearts TT was NOT going to get it done.  TT is gone - build a bridge and go over it and become a Browns fan and continue to worship your guy.  Browns fans will rue the day they acquired TT.  Rue.  The.  Day.

[Shaw66]

23 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It will be interesting to see.  I think Landry is going to have a major drop off in catches but ypc should go up.  The key will be if Gordon is there because he fits TT to a tee.  The Coleman trade doesn’t seem to make sense to me because he’s another guy that fits TT pretty well.

 

i has mixed feelings on Baker but if Tyrod struggles, he is stepping into a good situation. 

I was far from a Dennison fan but it seems a little BS to put all of last year’s failings in him.  Hiring a WCO and putting Tyrod into that offense was stupid.  The Bills then traded away their best wr and replaced him with Jordan Matthews.

 

RD sucked but our offensive player evaluation sucked as well.  Hopefully, they are starting to make the right choices.  It all really comes down to Allen.

Other than QB, the roster talent doesn't mean that much.   If Daboll is good, McCarron will be fine.   A well-executed, good offensive scheme with McCarron at QB throwing to the Bills' receivers can be very effective.   Allen could be a Hall of Fame QB, but if Daboll is no better than Dennison, the Bills offense is going nowhere.  

 

The Bills traded away their best wide receiver?   Yes, I guess they did, but he didn't play all that well with his new team, and now he's on his third team in less than a year.   

 

It simply isn't about talent on the field as much as most people think.   That's because all the teams have more or less the same level of talent.  

 

Other than the QB, it's about the coaches.  

[Happy]

10 hours ago, SCBills said:

Agreed.  

 

I should also add “Replaced Dennison with Daboll”.  

 

This stands to be the most significant change.  Agree with the posters that stated coaching matters, and I think more so than too many give credence to.  It will be interesting to see how Daboll uses what he has right now as that should dictate what is upgraded/replaced next off-season.

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Other than QB, the roster talent doesn't mean that much.   If Daboll is good, McCarron will be fine.   A well-executed, good offensive scheme with McCarron at QB throwing to the Bills' receivers can be very effective.   Allen could be a Hall of Fame QB, but if Daboll is no better than Dennison, the Bills offense is going nowhere.  

 

The Bills traded away their best wide receiver?   Yes, I guess they did, but he didn't play all that well with his new team, and now he's on his third team in less than a year.   

 

It simply isn't about talent on the field as much as most people think.   That's because all the teams have more or less the same level of talent.  

 

Other than the QB, it's about the coaches.  

Not to get in this whole can of worms but Sammy was huge part of what opened things up for Gurley and the other wrs.  It blows my mind that some fans can’t even realize what a big threat in your passing game Does for the rest of your offense.  He also had 8 tds, more than all Bills wrs combined, and a really good offense coach just paid him a lot of money.  He also had very good chemistry with Tyrod when healthy.  

 

And while I agree coaching does matter, especially with a young qb, Daboll’s nfl resume is actually worse than Dennison’s.  I think too often we blame the coaches for the players’ failings. Last year’s offense group sucked talent wise and on paper, this year’s group isn’t that much better/ if at all.  The obvious wildcard is if Allen is a franchise qb.

5 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

This stands to be the most significant change.  Agree with the posters that stated coaching matters, and I think more so than too many give credence to.  It will be interesting to see how Daboll uses what he has right now as that should dictate what is upgraded/replaced next off-season.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DennRi0.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DaboBr0.htm

 

[Paul Costa]

11 hours ago, RPbillsfan said:

The 2018 is much better

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