Bills Offense ‘17 vs ‘18

[SCBills]

Projected ‘18:

 

‘17 Dawkins/Incognito/Wood/Ducasse/Mills

’18 Dawkins/Ducasse/Bodine(Groy)/Miller/Mills

 

-Replace Incognito/Wood with Miller/Bodine(Groy)

 

’17 McCoy/Tolbert/Cadet

’18 McCoy/Ivory/Cadet

 

-Replace Tolbert with Ivory

 

’17 DiMarco

’18 DiMarco

 

’17 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

’18 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

 

’17 KB/Zay/Thompson/Holmes 

‘18 KB/Coleman/Kerley/Zay

 

-Replace Thompson with Coleman/Kerley

 

’17 Tyrod/Peterman 

‘18 McCarron/Allen (or vice-versa)

 

-Replace Tyrod with AJ or Allen

 

On paper, which offense do you prefer?

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by SCBills

[RPbillsfan]

The 2018 is much better

[Ol Dirty B]

This list makes me feel A) worse about this year, and B) generally depressed because somehow this receiving corps on paper looks better than last year's. However, I will say you left Matthews out. Granted he got hurt, but the name makes the 2017 WRs look better on paper. 

1 minute ago, RPbillsfan said:

The 2018 is much better

Much? Da !@#$?

[JoPar_v2]

Doesn’t look too bad...’course it will all come down to the QB play (as it always does.)

[wppete]

2018. 

[Troll Toll]

If Allen is good enough to start, ‘18... otherwise ‘17. Allen should be so much better than Tyrod as a passer that this offense will take steps forward despite weaknesses at OL and receiver. If Zay Jones can take a big leap forward we may even have a “good” offense when paired with Allen. Plus, I’m expecting another step forward for the defense.

 

If McCarron starts I think we’ll be looking at a 7-9 or 6-10 type of season. He is a downgrade from Tyrod. Not a good look for Allen if McCarron starts more than a few games.

 

I don’t even want to entertain the thought of Peterman starting.

[OCinBuffalo]

I'd prefer to see some film. We don't even have a clue of what the basics of this offense are, what it emphasizes, who is keyed on, etc. 

 

Sorry, but when one adds a unknowable Daboll offense to the "paper" we are supposed to consider, it's just not doable. 

 

Put another way: the OC that created the '17 offense was flat our fired, which surprised no one. Given that, it's hard to say that the next offense won't be better. It could be just as bad, but, hey, I doubt it. How many stupid play concepts, never mind calls, does Daboll's mere existence delete from last year's offense?

 

We used Shady stupidly for far too many games(hence Ivory now), and, missed opportunities to use him as well, last year. How do I make an on-paper player comparison, when it's ostensibly the same exact player, in a completely different offense, run by a supposedly much better coach? 

[Ol Dirty B]

13 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

If Allen is good enough to start, ‘18... otherwise ‘17. Allen should be so much better than Tyrod as a passer that this offense will take steps forward despite weaknesses at OL and receiver. If Zay Jones can take a big leap forward we may even have a “good” offense when paired with Allen. Plus, I’m expecting another step forward for the defense.

 

If McCarron starts I think we’ll be looking at a 7-9 or 6-10 type of season. He is a downgrade from Tyrod. Not a good look for Allen if McCarron starts more than a few games.

 

I don’t even want to entertain the thought of Peterman starting.

 

You gotta pay the troll toll if you wanna get in the boys soul.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[JerseyBills]

19 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Projected ‘18:

 

‘17 Dawkins/Incognito/Wood/Ducasse/Mills

’18 Dawkins/Ducasse/Bodine(Groy)/Miller/Mills

 

-Replace Incognito/Wood with Miller/Bodine(Groy)

 

’17 McCoy/Tolbert/Cadet

’18 McCoy/Ivory/Cadet

 

-Replace Tolbert with Ivory

 

’17 DiMarco

’18 DiMarco

 

’17 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

’18 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

 

’17 KB/Zay/Thompson/Holmes 

‘18 KB/Coleman/Kerley/Zay

 

-Replace Thompson with Coleman/Kerley

 

’17 Tyrod/Peterman 

‘18 McCarron/Allen (or vice-versa)

 

-Replace Tyrod with AJ or Allen

 

On paper, which offense do you prefer?

 

KB and Cadet wasn't here until halfway point , him being healthy alone makes this a much better wr group . Coleman/Zay have big untapped potential..  Tyrod is a terrific athlete but horrendous QB. 

 

Biggest difference is Dennison and Daboll. I love that McD and co moved on after one year. Dennison's scheme was also horrendous. 

 

I like 18 by a big margin. I really think we struck gold with McBeane 

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, OCinBuffalo said:

I'd prefer to see some film. We don't even have a clue of what the basics of this offense are, what it emphasizes, who is keyed on, etc. 

 

Sorry, but when one adds a unknowable Daboll offense to the "paper" we are supposed to consider, it's just not doable. 

 

Put another way: the OC that created the '17 offense was flat our fired, which surprised no one. Given that, it's hard to say that the next offense won't be better. It could be just as bad, but, hey, I doubt it. How many stupid play concepts, never mind calls, does Daboll's mere existence delete from last year's offense?

 

We used Shady stupidly for far too many games(hence Ivory now), and, missed opportunities to use him as well, last year. How do I make an on-paper player comparison, when it's ostensibly the same exact player, in a completely different offense, run by a supposedly much better coach? 

Agreed.  

 

I should also add “Replaced Dennison with Daboll”.  

[LeGOATski]

I feel better about '17 because of the o-line and we knew what we had at QB. I was certain that the offense would be good enough.

 

This year, the o-line looks terrible and they're probably gonna start the rookie QB. Shady's another year older.

 

I'm not being negative, this is just reality. There is definitely a possibility the QB play will be better and the offense better overall. Keeping the expectations low, though.

[Ol Dirty B]

RB is an upgrade, WR is an upgrade, but the line I think could he so much worse.

 

I think QB is probably down also. However like some of the last few posts mentioned, Daboll. I continually neglect the change at OC when I post negatively about the offense. I do think he could be a major upgrade and make 18 way better than 17.

8 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

KB and Cadet wasn't here until halfway point , him being healthy alone makes this a much better wr group . Coleman/Zay have big untapped potential..  Tyrod is a terrific athlete but horrendous QB. 

 

Biggest difference is Dennison and Daboll. I love that McD and co moved on after one year. Dennison's scheme was also horrendous. 

 

I like 18 by a big margin. I really think we struck gold with McBeane 

 

He's not a horrendous QB man. Stop it.

 

Your post is so homerific. You have cadet, Coleman, and zay all doing things they've never show they're capable of.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Starr Almighty]

I'd prefer the line to be Dawkins/Groy/Bodine/Miller/Mills

[OCinBuffalo]

52 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Agreed.  

 

I should also add “Replaced Dennison with Daboll”.  

Perhaps, but do you agree that this change has 10X the effect of changing out 1 player? 

 

Consider: The year before Dennison we were the premier power blocking run team in the NFL, and probably of the last 10 years. If you can do power, you can own people. We did. We were the #1 rushing team in the league by design, not by default. Then, Dennison comes in last year and changes the entire run concept, for ALL of our run plays(the first 4 games), to zone blocking...because "system".  When Dennison realized his idiocy was gonna cost him his job? Presto, we start running more power plays(last 6 games).

The players we had, both individually and as a group, were not the best fit  for zone. Zone is about getting to a spot first, then using that spot + body position to create holes, thus it emphasizes quickness and flexibility(like wrestling). Power is about being assigned a target, or two, lining up on them, and then: destroy, which emphasizes size and strength(like heavyweight boxing). ALL O lineman need minimums in all 4 characteristics I mentioned to make an NFL squad. It's the emphasis the scheme places on each characteristic, that makes one guy "better" than the next. Thus, a bunch of guys who are above average in all 4, but, are really big and strong(like we had 2 years ago), means you do power: every play you seek and destroy. "Coaching" that ignores their strengths and focuses on what they are only average at, for the sake of a scheme? Folly.

 

Which kind of run concept do the Bills favor today, right now? No one has any idea. Therefore, we can't know if our players today are a better fit than the players last year. The only thing we do know: Dennison is gone and so are his silly notions about forcing players into his system, rather than forcing his system to fit the players(or making a new system entirely).

 

For all we know, the players we have today, right now, fit a zone scheme better than power. See the problem? 

[SoTier]

20 minutes ago, OCinBuffalo said:

Perhaps, but do you agree that this change has 10X the effect of changing out 1 player? 

 

Consider: The year before Dennison we were the premier power blocking run team in the NFL, and probably of the last 10 years. If you can do power, you can own people. We did. We were the #1 rushing team in the league by design, not by default. Then, Dennison comes in last year and changes the entire run concept, for ALL of our run plays(the first 4 games), to zone blocking...because "system".  When Dennison realized his idiocy was gonna cost him his job? Presto, we start running more power plays(last 6 games).

The players we had, both individually and as a group, were not the best fit  for zone. Zone is about getting to a spot first, then using that spot + body position to create holes, thus it emphasizes quickness and flexibility(like wrestling). Power is about being assigned a target, or two, lining up on them, and then: destroy, which emphasizes size and strength(like heavyweight boxing). ALL O lineman need minimums in all 4 characteristics I mentioned to make an NFL squad. It's the emphasis the scheme places on each characteristic, that makes one guy "better" than the next. Thus, a bunch of guys who are above average in all 4, but, are really big and strong(like we had 2 years ago), means you do power: every play you seek and destroy. "Coaching" that ignores their strengths and focuses on what they are only average at, for the sake of a scheme? Folly.

 

Which kind of run concept do the Bills favor today, right now? No one has any idea. Therefore, we can't know if our players today are a better fit than the players last year. The only thing we do know: Dennison is gone and so are his silly notions about forcing players into his system, rather than forcing his system to fit the players(or making a new system entirely).

 

For all we know, the players we have today, right now, fit a zone scheme better than power. See the problem? 

 

 

In theory, your conclusion is right on ... but except for Bodine and the rookie Teller, who have the Bills added who wasn't on the team last season?   Ducasse, who simply hasn't been starter quality at any time in his 8 or 9 year career, appears to be the only guy who fit Dennison's zone scheme.   The question is only partly whether Daboll is smarter than Dennison, but assuming that he is, is there any realistic hope that the 2018 OL can be even as good as the 2017 version given the drop in talent level since the Bills have essentially replaced three above average OLers with below average starters/backup players?

[Alphadawg7]

Reality is the offense probably will be worse this year, at least in total points scored...BUT the changes made weren’t about this year, they were for the future.

 

TT haters fail to recognize the weapon his legs were.  Our new QBs, need to be quite a bit better than TT as a passer to make up for what he did with his legs.  If they are only slightly better than TT as a passer, then our offense will drop off because our OL is a big question mark right now and they won’t be able to make the plays TT did with his legs.  Not to mention McCoy is older too.

 

I much prefer our 2018 team, but that doesn’t mean it will actually better this year, and it’s ok if it’s not.  We got young QBs, this is about the next 5 to 10 years.  I fully expect and offense heavy offseason and draft next year to give Allen the protection and weapons to succeed.

[BillsfaninSB]

2018.  Bills were 31st in passing. 29th overall.  Can’t get much worse. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Reality is the offense probably will be worse this year, at least in total points scored...BUT the changes made weren’t about this year, they were for the future.

 

TT haters fail to recognize the weapon his legs were.  Our new QBs, need to be quite a bit better than TT as a passer to make up for what he did with his legs.  If they are only slightly better than TT as a passer, then our offense will drop off because our OL is a big question mark right now and they won’t be able to make the plays TT did with his legs.  Not to mention McCoy is older too.

 

I much prefer our 2018 team, but that doesn’t mean it will actually better this year, and it’s ok if it’s not.  We got young QBs, this is about the next 5 to 10 years.  I fully expect and offense heavy offseason and draft next year to give Allen the protection and weapons to succeed.

 

I pretty much agree with this though I would say the trade for Coleman has me in a positive mood this morning. I feel for the first time under McDermott we have a 1,2,3 at wide receiver who are all actual NFL starter level talents. That has me somewhat encouraged. The question is can McCarron or Allen get the ball to them consistently?

[fansince88]

6 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

If Allen is good enough to start, ‘18... otherwise ‘17. Allen should be so much better than Tyrod as a passer that this offense will take steps forward despite weaknesses at OL and receiver. If Zay Jones can take a big leap forward we may even have a “good” offense when paired with Allen. Plus, I’m expecting another step forward for the defense.

 

If McCarron starts I think we’ll be looking at a 7-9 or 6-10 type of season. He is a downgrade from Tyrod. Not a good look for Allen if McCarron starts more than a few games.

 

I don’t even want to entertain the thought of Peterman starting.

NO! Not on Stats. Not in the eye test. Not in passer rating....NO! Tyrod was horrible and left WR standing alone in space. See the reply below. It is hard to not upgrade from 31st out of 32 teams.

3 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

2018.  Bills were 31st in passing. 29th overall.  Can’t get much worse. 

This^^.

Edited August 6, 2018 by fansince88

[CSBill]

6 hours ago, SCBills said:

Projected ‘18:

 

‘17 Dawkins/Incognito/Wood/Ducasse/Mills

’18 Dawkins/Ducasse/Bodine(Groy)/Miller/Mills

 

-Replace Incognito/Wood with Miller/Bodine(Groy)

 

’17 McCoy/Tolbert/Cadet

’18 McCoy/Ivory/Cadet

 

-Replace Tolbert with Ivory

 

’17 DiMarco

’18 DiMarco

 

’17 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

’18 Clay/O’Leary/Thomas

 

’17 KB/Zay/Thompson/Holmes 

‘18 KB/Coleman/Kerley/Zay

 

-Replace Thompson with Coleman/Kerley

 

’17 Tyrod/Peterman 

‘18 McCarron/Allen (or vice-versa)

 

-Replace Tyrod with AJ or Allen

 

On paper, which offense do you prefer?

 

 

And you forgot what is the most important change from 17 to 18:

 

'17 OC = Dennison

'18 OC = Daboll

 

Moving from the 1980's to a 2018 Generation Z offense will make a huge difference!