Roundybout Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I think that this whole offset thing is moot, because even the Jets won't cut a third overall pick on a rookie deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Paulus said: So, what is the big hold up for the Jets, then? I see so many post saying it is pointless for Darnold to hold out, and nothing about how pointless it is for the Jets to be holding out... The sword cuts both ways, dudes. Because they dont want to start a trend for the other 31 teams like the Chargers did last year...give the NFLPA/Agents an inch and they want to try to take a mile...pretty soon it starts going from top 3 to top 5 to top 10 to top 15 to all first round picks... Edited July 28, 2018 by matter2003 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Called Precident. Jets have a long standing policy of including offsets in all Rookie Deals. Not to mention No QB in this draft avoided offset language. So to pull the language sets a very dangerous precedent for Jets in future drafts. They have two QBs to go forward with right now. Only one being hurt is Darnold missing time over language that will never be used or affect him. However the Precendent will affect the Jets for years to come. ...why change now?...is he here to play ball with $30+ mil GUARANTEED or is he Sam the Sham?......seriously?.....20 year old has leverage?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 minute ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said: While I agree with your thoughts on Allen's personality traits, and his willingness to sign with offsets, it should be noted that he waited until after Mayfield also signed with offsets before he signed. Perhaps he wanted to see what mayfield did, perhaps mayfield's signing gave cover to Jimmy Sexton. In any event-good for Bills, bad for Jets. While I hate the expression, that's a win-win It's telling that they both have same agent. That means the agent gave his advice, then the player made his decision. Maybe what Mayfield got affected Allen's choice. I prefer to think that Allen just sees it differently. NOTHING is more important to him than (1) his family and (2) his team, or at least that's the way McBeane want him to see it. Offsets or no offsets, his family will be well cared for with the contract he's signing. So the only thing he should care about is his team. The fact that Darnold cares about the offsets is a red flag. A minor red flag, to be sure, for most teams. A bigger red flag for McBeane. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 To be honest, I'm not sure why offset language is even allowed. Seems completely backwards to me. If you give a guy gaurenteed money, why should it matter what he signs with another team? He should get ALL the gaurenteed money he was promised by the team. 3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: It's telling that they both have same agent. That means the agent gave his advice, then the player made his decision. Maybe what Mayfield got affected Allen's choice. I prefer to think that Allen just sees it differently. NOTHING is more important to him than (1) his family and (2) his team, or at least that's the way McBeane want him to see it. Offsets or no offsets, his family will be well cared for with the contract he's signing. So the only thing he should care about is his team. The fact that Darnold cares about the offsets is a red flag. A minor red flag, to be sure, for most teams. A bigger red flag for McBeane. They don't actually have the same agent. Their agents work for the same company, though. Allen mentioned that on One Bills Live yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Called Precident. Jets have a long standing policy of including offsets in all Rookie Deals. Not to mention No QB in this draft avoided offset language. So to pull the language sets a very dangerous precedent for Jets in future drafts. They have two QBs to go forward with right now. Only one being hurt is Darnold missing time over language that will never be used or affect him. However the Precendent will affect the Jets for years to come. You guys actually believe the crap you peddle... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...why change now?...is he here to play ball with $30+ mil GUARANTEED or is he Sam the Sham?......seriously?.....20 year old has leverage?..... Correct. He obviously isn't thinking about football. And that's a bad thing. Look at Shady. He has his press conference, and over and over the press asks him about his personal issue. He said, over and over, "I'm only talking about football." Why? Because he knows he has to be 100% about football right now, and he has to manage his personal distractions the best he can without letting it interfere with football. Talking about his problem with the press distracts him from football and doesn't solve his problem, so he consciously decided not to talk to the press. McBeane want their players to be all about football. They support, I'm sure, exactly what Shady is doing with the press. They would be VERY disappointed if Allen were doing what Darnold is doing. 3 minutes ago, MJS said: To be honest, I'm not sure why offset language is even allowed. Seems completely backwards to me. If you give a guy gaurenteed money, why should it matter what he signs with another team? He should get ALL the gaurenteed money he was promised by the team. They don't actually have the same agent. Their agents work for the same company, though. Allen mentioned that on One Bills Live yesterday. Thanks. So they might actually be getting different advice. So maybe it isn't Darnold; maybe he's just getting bad advice from his agent and following it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Just now, Paulus said: You guys actually believe the crap you peddle... If the Jets roll back their long standing offset policy now. You DONT think every player is going to demand no offsets. Never have been in to many negotiations have you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Culture. The Jets are saying "this is the way we do things." Darnold is saying "I don't want to do it your way. I want to do it my way." That's what I was saying about McBeane. They're immediately turned off when the player's behavior says "I don't want to do it your way." Just like Belichick is turned off. McBeane's view, and Belichick's, and apparently the Jets', is that the players must do it their way on things that are of fundamental importance. The difference between the cultures is, I'm guessing, that the Bills knew what they were getting with Allen and the Jets, apparently, didn't know what they were getting with Darnold. McBeane don't want a guy who puts himself ahead of the team. Contracts and playing are not the same thing. It is not like Darnold wasn't McBeane's 2d highest ranked QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, MJS said: To be honest, I'm not sure why offset language is even allowed. Seems completely backwards to me. If you give a guy gaurenteed money, why should it matter what he signs with another team? He should get ALL the gaurenteed money he was promised by the team. ...Asinine 101" clause CBA style......if that's the best Demaurice can do to flex his "muscle", the 2020 strike looms large...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: If the Jets roll back their long standing offset policy now. You DONT think every player is going to demand no offsets. Never have been in to many negotiations have you. Pushing for advantageous language, even if it is untraditional, is perfectly fine, especially when Darnold has the leverage. Edited July 28, 2018 by Paulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Paulus said: It is what I do for a living. Pushing for advantageous language, even if it is untraditional, is perfectly fine, especially when Darnold has the leverage. Exactly. Then you should know better than anyone that once you give in once that now becomes the new baseline for all future negotiations. And the baseline keeps getting pushed further and further as time moves on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Paulus said: Pushing for advantageous language, even if it is untraditional, is perfectly fine, especially when Darnold has the leverage. He has No leverage. He is on a slotted deal and the QBs in the class accepted the language. Jets know he will sign. Its not like he is sitting out all season and going to reenter the draft. Edited July 28, 2018 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Correct. He obviously isn't thinking about football. And that's a bad thing. Look at Shady. He has his press conference, and over and over the press asks him about his personal issue. He said, over and over, "I'm only talking about football." Why? Because he knows he has to be 100% about football right now, and he has to manage his personal distractions the best he can without letting it interfere with football. Talking about his problem with the press distracts him from football and doesn't solve his problem, so he consciously decided not to talk to the press. McBeane want their players to be all about football. They support, I'm sure, exactly what Shady is doing with the press. They would be VERY disappointed if Allen were doing what Darnold is doing. Thanks. So they might actually be getting different advice. So maybe it isn't Darnold; maybe he's just getting bad advice from his agent and following it. ...it just woefully stinks as to how this game or the love for it has taken a back seat years ago....sure I understand that ALL Owners are BILLIONAIRES and the players want and deserve their fair share.....but go back to the day of your avitar BILLY SHAW, who took time off from his cement mixing job to come and play ball for the Bills at a whopping 18 grand a year......post game locker room was a beer and a cigarette.....and then the guy returned to his REAL job, eventually retiring at age 66 (FULL Social Security) because his NFL pension was loose change in the damn ash tray......seriously?.....and Darnold is worried about double dipping offset?.......... Edited July 28, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Just now, matter2003 said: Exactly. Then you should know better than anyone that once you give in once that now becomes the new baseline for all future negotiations. And the baseline keeps getting pushed further and further as time moves on. The sword cuts both ways. By your own logic, and Bosa'so performance in SD, that envelope has been pushed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Paulus said: Contracts and playing are not the same thing. It is not like Darnold wasn't McBeane's 2d highest ranked QB. They ARE two different things, but how a player handles each is very important to McBeane. I am absolutely sure that McBeane look at a guy like Kahlil Mack and think less of him because he's holding out. McBeane have been very clear that they don't want distractions. Beane said it talking about Kaepernick. If a guy is a distraction, his value to the team is less. So if, before the draft, you asked Beane to rank the four QBs in order of likelihood of being a signing problem, Beane probably would have said Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield and Allen, in that order. And if you asked McBeane whether they cared about that, they would have said "absolutely." Not because they were worried that the guy never would sign, but simply because it says something about their priorities. Family first, football second, everything else way down the list. If those aren't your priorities, McBeane value you less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Just now, MAJBobby said: He has No leverage. He is on a slotted deal and the QBs in the class accepted the language. Jets know he will sign. Its not like he is sitting out all season and going to reenter the draft. Bosa. He certainly has more leverage than Bosa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Just now, Paulus said: The sword cuts both ways. By your own logic, and Bosa'so performance in SD, that envelope has been pushed... DE vs QB. And also different holdout ie Bosa was about Bonus payout schedule. Just now, Paulus said: Bosa. He certainly has more leverage than Bosa. That is funny. Must be you missed the news that Darnold is already telling his agent to get him to camp. NO LEVERAGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ennjay Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Maybe what Mayfield got affected Allen's choice. I prefer to think that Allen just sees it differently. You may be right but I have a feeling it's as simple as both signed when they reported to camp and the Browns reported a day before the Bills. I think Allen was going to sign when he checked in and the language had already been worked out. (I also believe agents talk and Allen's and Mayfield's respective people had a good idea what was in the other one's contract before either signed.) But on Darnold, living here in NJ I've been reading more in the local stuff about Darnold isn't ready yet, Darnold doesn't process all that quickly, Darnold doesn't protect the ball, Darnold needs a lot of grooming, etc., etc., etc. It may all be smokescreen since he hasn't signed but it makes me wonder about all that Draft Day crap about the guy fairly glows in the dark with a football in his hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...why change now?...is he here to play ball with $30+ mil GUARANTEED or is he Sam the Sham?......seriously?.....20 year old has leverage?..... He’s making a stink over THIS? He has a better chance of winning the lottery than being cut, or at least he should think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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