Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 10:51 AM, THE SLAMMER said: I disagree it was a mistake. Tyrod Tylor was playing his worse football ever at the time. A week off may have been what he needed. Okay, in hindsight it was a mistake. It wasn't a mistake. It didn't work but it was the right decision. Tyrod was garbage the previous two games, McDermott had to do something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 9 hours ago, JohnC said: Sometime in this season the staff is going to get a look at Allen. It's not a question of will they make the switch but when will they make the switch. The first half of the schedule is brutal. So I don't see him getting playing time then. By the second half of the season he should be better prepared to take the snaps. Correct. Although I think it will come sooner than you. I think he will be in by Chicago at the latest. I can see him in by Green Bay though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Oh man some tyrod hate to start the day. Bills fans are mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 On July 19, 2018 at 7:51 AM, THE SLAMMER said: I disagree it was a mistake. Tyrod Tylor was playing his worse football ever at the time. A week off may have been what he needed. Okay, in hindsight it was a mistake. No. That was a winnable game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 On 7/21/2018 at 2:55 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm not sure that's it. Something said that puzzled me when I was a new hire manager was "at XXX Inc, you earn the right to fail". After a couple years, I got it. When you have a subordinate you need to trust with a major project - if they've earned that responsibility, you have to turn over the reins. You can't hold on to authority and second-guess them at every turn, that just winds up with a muddle. You have to let go and give them the leeway to make decisions and run things their way. And sometimes you do that, and things crash and burn and you have to step in and right the ship and maybe let THEM go, because it's obvious they're not the right person for the job. And maybe that's really what McDermott learned from the Peterman SD debacle. Maybe it wasn't about Peterman. Maybe it was about Dennison. I considered this for a long time as soon as peterman was announced. Trying to sort the reasoning. For as bad as Tyrod was playing there was not anything that said to me start Nathan. Being a close observer at the Time of what Dennison was asking of Tyrod was very frustrating so my conclusion was Dennison wanted a pocket passer to run his offense after trying to force Taylor into a box he could not fit into. How McD handled the tragedy was quite respectable, but there certainly was damage done. The Team and players i might became confused as the the goals. Perhaps that is whey we saw a bit of half hearted play from the O line ? thats brutal for the HC to deal with. I now respect Coach for how he recovered the team. Then moved on post season from Dennison. And i think that as the point here. Young Head Coach learning from his decisions, both right and wrong and ambiguous all. Good perspective Hap Go Bills On 7/21/2018 at 3:36 PM, JohnC said: In the case with Dennison and his desire to make a qb change that dramatic change doesn't come out of the blue. What the OC was seeing in the games and in the film room were the same things that McDermott was seeing. McDermott who had the ultimate authority to make that change was willing to go along with the recommendation because there was a substantive basis to the recommendation. In the example of of your own experience as a manager in a wide ranging organization it is impossible as a boss/manager to know how everything should be run. You have to delegate and trust your subordinates. (As you noted.) However, if a manager at a lower branch wants to make a dramatic change in policy then I'm sure you would ask some probing questions and consult with others if need be. My point is that even if Dennison wanted to make a change McDermott as the HC would certainly not casually go along with the OC's desire unless there was merit to Dennison's position on this critical issue. I believe that there was a legitimate basis for Dennison to want to make a change. The decision didn't work out. It was quickly changed by the HC in the game. In retrospect, although it is not unfair to say that the outcome of the decision was disastrous the end result from how it impacted the season was inconsequential. In my opinion the record the Bills had turned out to be the same whether the decision was made or not. I do not know if feel the same about the season. Sure Tyrod felt the writing was now on the wall about his future. And perhaps Dennison as wel ?This dynamic is fairly weighty. and sure the Team was questioning what the future would bring. Luckily, and i mean luckily the team rallied and recovered. Not sure how that happened honestly. But i feel strongly the dynamics shifted at One Bills Drive that weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) Peterman was accurate in throwing the ball to opposing teams corners. McD attempted a Hail Mary and it blew up in his face. Glad he owned up to it. Proving he’s humble & capable of putting the blame not on his players but himself. Where this gets interesting is if Josh Allen lights up training camp & the preseason and pushes McCarron & Peterman for the starting job. Will McD be willing to roll with the rookie & weather through the learning curve? Edited July 22, 2018 by Dr.Sack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 23 hours ago, joesixpack said: Because his play indicated he was a dumpster fire? Saying he "wasn't playing the best football" is like asking Mrs. Lincoln how the play was, despite the assassination. Edit: when the stats are THAT BAD, it is about the stats. Something had to change that was for sure. 23 hours ago, Wily Dog said: McD also learned who not to trust on his team and that will come out in the wash, in the next year, when we have salary cap nirvana. excellent point. seriously 23 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I predicted it in the pre-season too. As bad as I thought Nate looked they were never going through the whole season without getting a look at Peterman. 13 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Correct. Although I think it will come sooner than you. I think he will be in by Chicago at the latest. I can see him in by Green Bay though. I am going on record here. if the Bills are playing reasonably well at QB and AJM or Peterman are making decent decisions ? I do not see the need to switch up for the sake of seeing what Allen has. he was drafted as the Franchise QB and they sure better have faith he will be just that. Not the same circumstance. unless you are predicting poor QB play already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said: Peterman was accurate in throwing the ball to opposing teams corners. McD attempted a Hail Mary and it blew up in his face. Glad he owned up to it. Proving he’s humble & capable of putting the blame not on his players but himself. Where this gets interesting is if Josh Allen lights up training camp & the preseason and pushes McCarron & Peterman for the starting job. Will McD be willing to roll with the rookie & weather through the learning curve? I might hope so. but he should be head and shoulders above the other two.. ( see what i did there ) Allen is 6 5 right ?? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 10:24 AM, Sweats said: I almost forgot the 3 game slide where we were out scored nearly 110-40.......and yet even with that miserable showing, we still made the post season. Yeah, I’m as shocked as anyone over that. That’s not near as shocking as missing the playoffs so many times. Mediocre teams get in regularly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, NoSaint said: That’s not near as shocking as missing the playoffs so many times. Mediocre teams get in regularly Not the Bills though. History tells us so. : ) fairly amazing all considered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 27 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: unless you are predicting poor QB play already I have some, but limited, confidence in AJ and we start against 3 legitimate defenses the first 3 weeks. Entirely possible that if he starts he looks worse than he really is through that run. I have no confidence in Peterman. If he starts and makes it past the guantlet of the Ravens and Chargers (who will be ready to jump every out route he throws) then the Vikings will eat him alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I have some, but limited, confidence in AJ and we start against 3 legitimate defenses the first 3 weeks. Entirely possible that if he starts he looks worse than he really is through that run. I have no confidence in Peterman. If he starts and makes it past the guantlet of the Ravens and Chargers (who will be ready to jump every out route he throws) then the Vikings will eat him alive. I have no qualms whatsoever with your assessment Bill. Do wonder what Brian Daboll thinks about his QBs as it is still early for solid evaluation from him. I am all for Allen being the successor because he earns it. But as some have mentioned he has more than once been described as a project who might need some patience from FO and Fans as well ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said: I have no qualms whatsoever with your assessment Bill. Do wonder what Brian Daboll thinks about his QBs as it is still early for solid evaluation from him. I am all for Allen being the successor because he earns it. But as some have mentioned he has more than once been described as a project who might need some patience from FO and Fans as well ! I am all for patience with Allen but this is the NFL. If he is the most visually impressive in pre-season and doesn't start and the Bills go 0-3 to start the season (certainly possible) losing low scoring games where the offense can't move the ball then the pressure to put the 7th overall pick in the draft in will be extreme. We saw last year what the mounting pressure of defeats can do to even the most process driven of Head Coach. I hope I am wrong but I suspect in that scenario Josh Allen makes his NFL debut at Lambeau Field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I am all for patience with Allen but this is the NFL. If he is the most visually impressive in pre-season and doesn't start and the Bills go 0-3 to start the season (certainly possible) losing low scoring games where the offense can't move the ball then the pressure to put the 7th overall pick in the draft in will be extreme. We saw last year what the mounting pressure of defeats can do to even the most process driven of Head Coach. I hope I am wrong but I suspect in that scenario Josh Allen makes his NFL debut at Lambeau Field. My concern , as might well be for others who wish him success long term? Is, if the O line is not protecting either Peterman , or more likely AJM do you want to send in Allen for trial by fire. Fans will be screaming at 0-3 of course. But HC and Beanes need to protect the investment as well ? so i have mixed feelings my friend. and it is still rather early to call Edited July 22, 2018 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said: I considered this for a long time as soon as peterman was announced. Trying to sort the reasoning. For as bad as Tyrod was playing there was not anything that said to me start Nathan. Being a close observer at the Time of what Dennison was asking of Tyrod was very frustrating so my conclusion was Dennison wanted a pocket passer to run his offense after trying to force Taylor into a box he could not fit into. How McD handled the tragedy was quite respectable, but there certainly was damage done. The Team and players i might became confused as the the goals. Perhaps that is whey we saw a bit of half hearted play from the O line ? thats brutal for the HC to deal with. I now respect Coach for how he recovered the team. Then moved on post season from Dennison. And i think that as the point here. Young Head Coach learning from his decisions, both right and wrong and ambiguous all. Good perspective Hap Go Bills I do not know if feel the same about the season. Sure Tyrod felt the writing was now on the wall about his future. And perhaps Dennison as wel ?This dynamic is fairly weighty. and sure the Team was questioning what the future would bring. Luckily, and i mean luckily the team rallied and recovered. Not sure how that happened honestly. But i feel strongly the dynamics shifted at One Bills Drive that weekend If you recall the Charger game in San Diego the opposition was demonstrably a better team. Their defense overwhelmed our OL and throttled the offense even when TT was in. Rivers is a probable HOF qb who played exceptionally well in that game. I'm steadfast in my belief that the visiting team was not going to win that game. As you noted the team recovered from that controversial substitution and went on its way to remain competitive for the rest of the season up to the point of making the playoffs. That's exactly my point! Although that substitution received a lot of attention it had no bearing on how the team performed for the rest of the season. Maybe that change rallied the team to get behind the veteran qb? If that is the case then the substitution had the unintended consequence of making the team more determined to play better behind Taylor? This coaching staff made a decision to make a change at qb in the hope that it would spark the offense. It didn't work out. The HC rather quickly went back to Taylor. So I don't see why this episode is given so much attention.? When all is said and done the Bills traded Taylor and kept Peterman. It's obvious that this staff was not committed to Taylor. And that to me is a very understandable and reasonable position to take. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 11 hours ago, JohnC said: If you recall the Charger game in San Diego the opposition was demonstrably a better team. Their defense overwhelmed our OL and throttled the offense even when TT was in. Rivers is a probable HOF qb who played exceptionally well in that game. I'm steadfast in my belief that the visiting team was not going to win that game. As you noted the team recovered from that controversial substitution and went on its way to remain competitive for the rest of the season up to the point of making the playoffs. That's exactly my point! Although that substitution received a lot of attention it had no bearing on how the team performed for the rest of the season. Maybe that change rallied the team to get behind the veteran qb? If that is the case then the substitution had the unintended consequence of making the team more determined to play better behind Taylor? This coaching staff made a decision to make a change at qb in the hope that it would spark the offense. It didn't work out. The HC rather quickly went back to Taylor. So I don't see why this episode is given so much attention.? When all is said and done the Bills traded Taylor and kept Peterman. It's obvious that this staff was not committed to Taylor. And that to me is a very understandable and reasonable position to take. yes Sir. it was rather dramatic at the time. As the season went on and then ended, it was just another page in McDermotts HC history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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