EJ Manuel says benching with Bills sent him into depression

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

That’s why the QB picks are a gamble.    You hit big or you roll snake eyes.  (those are bad right?) 

 

 

 

....LOL...reminisce to the day of "Jake the Snake", right??............

[Alaska Darin]

2 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

For what they gave up to get him, yeah. Sit him a year, at least. E.J was progressing fine until he got cocky and didn't run out of bounds when an NFL safety was bearing down on him. After that, it was all over. If they sat him a year, before playing him, that might not have happened.

That is simply not true.   EJ doesn't have the fundamental foundation to build on.   He lacks the ability to consistently repeat his delivery, even to this day.   His feet look like Bambi trying to ice skate. 

 

He had zero chance of being a consistent,  productive NFL QB in Buffalo but the probability wouldn't increase much anywhere in NFL.  

[billsintaiwan]

Orton looked like Joe Montana after EJ. He eventually got gun-shy and checked everything down, but there were a few weeks when the Bills had a real qb who saw the field and went through his reads.

 

Then came Tyrod.....

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

That is simply not true.   EJ doesn't have the fundamental foundation to build on.   He lacks the ability to consistently repeat his delivery, even to this day.   His feet look like Bambi trying to ice skate. 

 

He had zero chance of being a consistent,  productive NFL QB in Buffalo but the probability wouldn't increase much anywhere in NFL.  

You may be right but Buffalo gave him absolutely the worst environment to succeed.  If you draft a guy that high, you need to make an investment to them.  Play a Sackless scrub like Orton gets you nowhere.

[Rico]

In this slow time of the off-season before training camp starts, an EJ thread is always appreciated here to pick things up. Thanks, OP!

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, billsintaiwan said:

Orton looked like Joe Montana after EJ. He eventually got gun-shy and checked everything down, but there were a few weeks when the Bills had a real qb who saw the field and went through his reads.

 

Then came Tyrod.....

Yeah, that’s Orton slide against Denver was like the Montana catch throw.  Orton threw 6 tds to 0 ints against the Jets and threw 12 tds and 10 ints against everyone else. (EJ had 5 tds to 3 ints)  And of course the smart Bills hire Rex Ryan the next year. 

[Buffalo86]

8 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

Agreed. Whenever an impatient nincompoop says they want to see Allen start right away, I shudder for this very reason. You don't reach for a project and start him immediately just to appease the fan base. It never works.

Getting injured and benched can ruin a young qb fast, from a sports psychology standpoint.

 

IMO- if your QB is going to be psychologically ruined by these things, then he's not your QB.  I think the list of QBs who would've been great, if only they hadn't been ruined by starting too soon, is a pretty short one.

[McBean]

2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Watching EJ play on Sunday sent me into depression.

 

Especially his game against the Jaguars in London...

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, McBean said:

 

Especially his game against the Jaguars in London...

Which, despite the worst 5 minutes ever, is a game EJ brings us back to take the lead and the defense let’s Bortles goes 85 yards to win the game.

 

tony Romo threw 5 ints and won a game.

[The Frankish Reich]

I really do feel bad for EJ. There were a few moments where he almost - almost - had me convinced he could be the guy. Remember that drive against the Browns where he was suddenly moving, improvising, playing with some real feel for the game? That drive when he hurt his knee running out of bounds? In retrospect, that was the last time I had any faith in him. He briefly looked like that again when he came in for the Raiders last year, until it all fell apart. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

EJ is a nice guy and a bad football player. There is nothing wrong with that. It’s not his fault that he went in the 1st round. He was a product of a terrible QB draft. A lot of QBs don’t make it. He was just one of those guys. As someone that struggles with depression though I don’t wish that on anyone. It isn’t easy.

That qb class was just awful. There was no qb in that draft who merited a first or second round grade. Buddy Nix knew he was leaving the scene in the near future. He didn't want to leave without securing a qb for the franchise. It was a big mistake that lingered and held the franchise back for some time. 

 

Both McDermott and Beane had a smart plan. Both knew that the next draft class was going to have maybe three or four highly rated qb prospects in that draft. So they accumulated picks as currency to position themselves to get one of them in the next class. They were masterful in how they positioned themselves to come out of this draft with a legitimate franchise qb prospect. 

 

In comparison to the checker playing Buddy the McBeane tandem demonstrated that they were good at chess. I'm not trying to dump on Nix who was put in a position that was beyond his capabilities. But in no way could he ever had acted in such a strategic and forward-thinking way as the McBeane duo did in this draft in which resulted in acquiring a high end qb prospect. 

[xxxxxxxx]

22 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

That is simply not true.   EJ doesn't have the fundamental foundation to build on.   He lacks the ability to consistently repeat his delivery, even to this day.   His feet look like Bambi trying to ice skate. 

 

He had zero chance of being a consistent,  productive NFL QB in Buffalo but the probability wouldn't increase much anywhere in NFL.  

I think your hindsight is 20/20, and that your ignoring alot of the conversation surrounding him in 2013. He was projected as having all the tools, and there were concerns over whether he had recieved proper coaching. There were some pretty good breakdowns of his strengths and weaknesses posted on this board and how they didn't gel with the play calling. Footwork was an issue at times, and it might still be, but I don't recall any major mechanic issues. The issue seems to be anticipation and touch, especially on short throws. He was better at longer, intermediate throws (especially on 1st down), weaker on short throws on third down, and all Hackett called was run, run, pass, having him repeatedly attempt short tight window throws on third down that he sucked at.

You got to be able to make those throws when your a starter, no doubt about that, but its not like he had excellent coaching either.

Edited July 18, 2018 by MURPHD6

[Buftex]

33 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Benching a 2nd year qb at 2-2 is almost as bad as benching your starting qb during a playoff race and a rookie throwing 5 ints in a half. Almost.

 

The only franchise worse at developing qbs than the Bills are the Browns.  We are a joke in that regards.

You know, I am with you on EJ, and I don't hate Tyrod. However, I may be in the minority here, but I was all for putting Peterman in for that Chargers game.  Now, I think it is very fair to say, Tyrod was given every chace.  He played some of his most uninspired football the previous 3 games or so...so, I thought it was a gutsy, worthy gamble to give Peterman the start.  The problem was, in my opinion is that the coach (and I completely blame McDermott) badly mis-read how ready Peterman was.  Fans had no way of knowing...I trusted to McDermott to know his QB's.  He didn't in this case. So, even though it was ultimately a bad decision, I don't think it was a terrible decision...if thata makes any kind of sense.  In  the end it was as much sending a signal to Tyrod that his play was insufficient, as it was an endorsement of Peterman, the rookie.

 

 

[Alaska Darin]

3 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

I think your hindsight is 20/20, and that your ignoring alot of the conversation surrounding him in 2013. He was projected as having all the tools, and there were concerns over whether he had recieved proper coaching. There were some pretty good breakdowns of his strengths and weaknesses posted on this board and how they didn't gel with hackets play calling. Footwork was an issue at times, and it might still be, but I don't recall any major mechanic issues. The issue seems to be anticipation and touch, especially on short throws. He was better at longer, intermediate throws (especially on 1st down), weaker on short throws on third down, and all Hackett called was run, run, pass, having him repeatedly attempt short tight window throws on third down that he sucked at.

Again, not true.  EJ couldn't repeat his throwing motion from down to down, much less over a game.  He had a pretty big hitch in his delivery and a tendency to push the football.  His foot placement led to his constant overthrows, which was a regular occurrence at FSU.

 

He also consistently struggled to hit any moving target and couldn't anticipate open windows, even in college.  

[YoloinOhio]

53 minutes ago, THE SLAMMER said:

 

Every time he took the field I was looking for an improved game. If anything he was getting worse.

He did get worse, because film. 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Buftex said:

You know, I am with you on EJ, and I don't hate Tyrod. However, I may be in the minority here, but I was all for putting Peterman in for that Chargers game.  Now, I think it is very fair to say, Tyrod was given every chace.  He played some of his most uninspired football the previous 3 games or so...so, I thought it was a gutsy, worthy gamble to give Peterman the start.  The problem was, in my opinion is that the coach (and I completely blame McDermott) badly mis-read how ready Peterman was.  Fans had no way of knowing...I trusted to McDermott to know his QB's.  He didn't in this case. So, even though it was ultimately a bad decision, I don't think it was a terrible decision...if thata makes any kind of sense.  In  the end it was as much sending a signal to Tyrod that his play was insufficient, as it was an endorsement of Peterman, the rookie.

 

 

I mean I was never the world’s biggest fan and obviously it is hindsight.  But he was a 5th round rookie and delivered possibly the worst start in nfl history.  McDermott should say a prayer of thanks to Andy Dalton every night.

[xxxxxxxx]

5 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

Again, not true.  EJ couldn't repeat his throwing motion from down to down, much less over a game.  He had a pretty big hitch in his delivery and a tendency to push the football.  His foot placement led to his constant overthrows, which was a regular occurrence at FSU.

 

He also consistently struggled to hit any moving target and couldn't anticipate open windows, even in college.  

Ok, I'm saying 20/20. That was not diagnosed, or well known until after, as far as I know. I'm not saying that isn't true, just that it wasn't viewed as a problem at the time. Just like Allen, he was believed to have fixed some problems by the Senior Bowl.

While I could be wrong, I think your bringing up an issue that the Bills discovered when they finally hired a QB coach, not an issue that was widely known at draft time.

Edited July 18, 2018 by MURPHD6

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

Ok, I'm saying 20/20. That was not diagnosed, or well known until after, as far as I know. I'm not saying that isn't true, just that it wasn't viewed as a problem at the time. Just like Allen, he was believed to have fixed some problems by the Senior Bowl.

Weren’t both Allen and EJ MVPs Of the Senior Bowl?

 

Daboll’s OC resume is less than impressive but it’s at least better than Hackett’s when EJ was drafted.  It’s why I wanted Rosen because I don’t trust the Bills to develop a rawer q.b. We will see.

[xxxxxxxx]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Weren’t both Allen and EJ MVPs Of the Senior Bowl?

 

Daboll’s OC resume is less than impressive but it’s at least better than Hackett’s when EJ was drafted.  It’s why I wanted Rosen because I don’t trust the Bills to develop a rawer q.b. We will see.

Me too. So many similarities, and no QB whisperer on the staff.

Nix was on record stating that he knew nothing about QB mechanics, as well.

Edited July 18, 2018 by MURPHD6

[C.Biscuit97]

17 minutes ago, JohnC said:

That qb class was just awful. There was no qb in that draft who merited a first or second round grade. Buddy Nix knew he was leaving the scene in the near future. He didn't want to leave without securing a qb for the franchise. It was a big mistake that lingered and held the franchise back for some time. 

 

Both McDermott and Beane had a smart plan. Both knew that the next draft class was going to have maybe three or four highly rated qb prospects in that draft. So they accumulated picks as currency to position themselves to get one of them in the next class. They were masterful in how they positioned themselves to come out of this draft with a legitimate franchise qb prospect. 

 

In comparison to the checker playing Buddy the McBeane tandem demonstrated that they were good at chess. I'm not trying to dump on Nix who was put in a position that was beyond his capabilities. But in no way could he ever had acted in such a strategic and forward-thinking way as the McBeane duo did in this draft in which resulted in acquiring a high end qb prospect. 

EJ was going in the 2nd at the latest (Chip Kelly was a big fan).  

 

Its ironic you bash Nix/ Whaley for EJ when they traded down, picked up a 2nd that turned into Kiko (runner up DROY and then traded for the very Shady McCoy).  But clearly, the guy who threw for under 2,000 and 58% in the MWC is clearly superior to the 70% passer in the ACC.

 

i think with guys like EJ and Allen (who is a mid round project who got bumped up as well) their development is going to make or break them.