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Helsinki Summit


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Just now, oldmanfan said:

I disagree about bigger fish to fry.  We are talking about the sovereignty of our country and our electoral system.  If that falls into question the whole basis for our system of government comes into question.

 

Our electoral system wasn't impacted by this.  It's certainly an egregious crime that was committed but we really don't know yet who was responsible and we don't want it to continue.  Further efforts by any nation to do something similar should result in a strong response if we have airtight evidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

So, it never happened? Trump didn't take Putin's word for it? Trump said nothing that was concerning to you?  Maybe even admit Trump made a mistake? Do you even know why Republicans are upset?

 

 

 

You made the statement, I asked you to provide a source for the words you attributed to Trump. And you couldn't. That's on you, Max. Not me. You're the one pushing hyperbole as fact and running away from any serious attempts to discuss the topic. That makes you a dishonest asshat. 

 

And now your tact is to question whether I understand a topic I've been researching and covering for over two years... that's not going to go well for you, Max. 

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Senator Bob Corker Tenn.

[Putin] gained a tremendous amount. Here he has been ostracized on the world stage. … It was almost an approval, if you will, a public approval by the greatest nation on earth towards him. … I would guess he's having caviar right now.

 

Senator Jeff Flake Ariz.

I never thought I would see the day when our American President would stand on the stage with the Russian President and place blame on the United States for Russian aggression. This is shameful.

 

Senator Susan Collins Me.

The president’s statements today in Helsinki demonstrate his continued refusal to accept the unanimous conclusions of U.S. intelligence leaders and the bipartisan findings of the Senate Intelligence Committee. This position is untenable and at odds with the forceful response this moment demands.

 

Senator Lindsey Graham S.C.

If it were me, I’d check the soccer ball for listening devices and never allow it in the White House.

 

Senator Charles E. Grassley Iowa

President Trump missed an opportunity to publicly press President Putin on whether he would agree to extradite the defendants to the United States to answer the allegations in court.

 

Senator John McCain Ariz.

No prior president has ever abased himself more abjectly before a tyrant.

 

Senator Rob Portman Ohio

The president’s comments in today’s press conference were troubling. He failed to stand up to Vladimir Putin on some of the most critical security issues facing our country and our allies.

 

Senator Tim Scott S.C.

As Americans, we stand up for our interests and values abroad; but I fear today was a step backwards.

 

Senator Ben Sasse Neb.

This is bizarre and flat-out wrong. The United States is not to blame. America wants a good relationship with the Russian people but Vladimir Putin and his thugs are responsible for Soviet-style aggression. When the president plays these moral equivalence games, he gives Putin a propaganda win he desperately needs.

 

Senator Patrick J. Toomey Pa.

.@POTUS' blindness to Putin’s hostile acts against the US and our allies—election meddling included—is very troubling.

 

Senator Jerry Moran Kan.

The president missed an opportunity to publicly condemn Russia for election interference or offer strong support for the NATO alliance. The problem with our relationship is not American actions but rather Russia’s duplicitous behavior.

 

Senator Lisa Murkowski Alaska

Sadly President Trump did not defend America to the Russian president, and for the world to see. Instead, what I saw today was not “America First,” it was simply a sad diminishment of our great nation.

 

Senator Dan Sullivan Alaska

I disagree w/ President’s remarks following Helsinki Summit. Specifically, do I believe the professional and patriotic men and women of our intelligence community, including the Director of National Intelligence, or a mafia regime leader like Putin? It’s not even a close call.

 

Rep. Paul D. Ryan Wis. 1st

Speaker of the House

The president must appreciate that Russia is not our ally.

 

Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers Wash. 5th

Republican Conference Chairwoman

Russia is not a friend to the United States or our allies. There’s no question that they meddled in our election, and all evidence points to Putin’s direct involvement. In order to put America first, the president must hold Russia accountable for their adversarial actions and their continued efforts to undermine our democratic institutions.

 

Rep. Ed Royce Calif. 39th

Chairman, Foreign Affairs Committee

I disagree with the president’s comments. There is simply no comparing the actions of the United States and Vladimir Putin.

 

Rep. Robert W. Goodlatte Va. 6th

Chairman, Judiciary Committee

U.S. intelligence agencies have confirmed Russia’s actions, and the evidence is plentiful. Today’s summit was an opportunity to forcefully address this growing threat directly with President Putin. I am dismayed that we did not see that.

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1 minute ago, keepthefaith said:

 

Our electoral system wasn't impacted by this.  It's certainly an egregious crime that was committed but we really don't know yet who was responsible and we don't want it to continue.  Further efforts by any nation to do something similar should result in a strong response if we have airtight evidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We don't know the exact impact of the Russians on the election.  And it doesn't matter.  What matters is they tried.

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Just now, oldmanfan said:

We don't know the exact impact of the Russians on the election.  And it doesn't matter.  What matters is they tried.

 

What do you suggest our response should be?

 

We've expelled dozens of diplomats in response, placed crippling sanctions on the individuals directly responsible for the funding and execution of the operation, armed the Ukrainians, annihilated 300 Russian mercenaries in Syria, broken the Russian influence hold over the DPRK and (soon) Iran, gotten NATO to up its defense spending against Russia... 

 

Should there be even more extreme measures taken?  

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10 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

And as we discussed the other day, simultaneously the NSA was discovering an illegal political spying ring operating inside the FBI and DOJ for the purposes of spying on the political opposition of the administration. 

 

That too threatens the entire basis of our republic by robbing the people of their voice in the process. 

 

Yet... we're only talking about one of those events. Why?

I don't necessarily agree with your premise.  And the reason why the Russian thing requires investigation is a foreign adversary has potentially committed an act of war against us 

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Just now, oldmanfan said:

I don't necessarily agree with your premise.  And the reason why the Russian thing requires investigation is a foreign adversary has potentially committed an act of war against us 

 

The thing is, my premise has 10x the evidence to back it than the Russian narrative has. That's a problem if we're being neutral and objective about this. 

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Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

What do you suggest our response should be?

 

We've expelled dozens of diplomats in response, placed crippling sanctions on the individuals directly responsible for the funding and execution of the operation, armed the Ukrainians, annihilated 300 Russian mercenaries in Syria, broken the Russian influence hold over the DPRK and (soon) Iran, gotten NATO to up its defense spending against Russia... 

 

Should there be even more extreme measures taken?  

None of the above necessarily affect what was done.  We need to cripple their cyber capability.  How that would be done I leave to experts.

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48 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Is our country completely clean?  No.  Should we stand with our country vs. a murdering dictator?  It's sad that question even needs to be asked of some here.

 

You have become completely unhinged.

 

Why are you blindly trusting unaccountable elements of our intel apparatus who have had such a ridiculously shoddy record of truth telling, and a long history of lying and manipulating the American public to their own ends.

 

You're talking about the same agencies who for years used the Playboy Mansion as a honey-potting chamber, protected pedophiles within our own government, and dosed private unsuspecting citizens with mind altering drugs as part of a mind control study to name only a few well documented cases.

 

You're talking about the same group who lied us into war in Iraq, and gave us the Bay of Pigs.  For Heaven's sake, the individuals who lied us into Iraq are the exact same ones who are now telling you that US intel services are pure as the driven snow.

 

Can you reconcile any of this?

 

 

 

 

Edited by TakeYouToTasker
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Just now, oldmanfan said:

None of the above necessarily affect what was done.  We need to cripple their cyber capability.  How that would be done I leave to experts.

 

The only way to do that is through direct acts of war. Which, when talking about the largest nuclear power in the world, is a dangerous gambit to run when there's no smoking gun, is it not? 

 

It's an even more dangerous precedent to set in light of our extensive history of meddling in other elections (like France and Israel just recently). Don't you see the problem with that kind of solution?

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Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The thing is, my premise has 10x the evidence to back it than the Russian narrative has. That's a problem if we're being neutral and objective about this. 

I would support investigation into some of the material you've presented.  But you also need to acknowledge when both houses of congress and our intelligence agencies all agree the Russians tried to influence our election that it also deserves complete investigation.

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7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

This simply is not true. He has said it could have been China or a 400 lb guy in his basement.   He has indeed cast doubt on the Russians being the perpetrators and did so again yesterday by saying Putin strongly denied it and he sees no reason why they would have. 

 

So in your response to a post that describes the differences in Russian involvement, you still insist on conflating the two.

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5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

None of those quotes support the statement you made (because they're not from the transcript of the presser). 

 

Dishonesty isn't a good look on you, Max. 

 

Color me shocked...SHOCKED to see the likes of McCain, Flake and Collins on that list.


SHOCKED.

 

Appalled, even.

 

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1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

You have become completely unhinged.

 

Why are you blindly trusting unaccountable elements of our intel apparatus who have had such a ridiculously shoddy record of truth telling, and a long history of lying and manipulating the American public to their own ends.

 

You're talking about the same agencies who for years used the Playboy Mansion as a honey-potting chamber, protected pedophiles within our own government, and dosed private unsuspecting citizens with mind altering drugs as part of a mind control study to name only a few well documented cases.

 

You're talking about the same group who lied us into war in Iraq, and gave us the Bay of Pigs.  For Heaven's sake, the individuals who lied us into Iraq are the exact same ones who are now telling you that US intel services are pure as the driven snow.

 

Can you reconcile any of this?

 

 

 

 

Yes I think our intelligence services are more reliable that Putin.  Yes they make mistakes at times.  But if you honestly think as the president does that Putin should be put on equal footing, at minimum, to our intelligence services then I would say your loyalties are seriously misplaced.

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1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

None of the above necessarily affect what was done.  We need to cripple their cyber capability.  How that would be done I leave to experts.

 

And you expect what?  That the Russians will simply take it?

 

You're suggesting over acts of war to which the Russians will certainly respond.

 

What you're advocating leads directly to this:

 

See the source image

 

There's no way around it.

 

Is this the world you want to live in?

 

And if it is, why should anyone listen to you?

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3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

So in your response to a post that describes the differences in Russian involvement, you still insist on conflating the two.

 

I'm pointing out the fact that Trump has indeed cast doubt on Russian hacking. There is no conflation on my part.  Sit down. 

Edited by 26CornerBlitz
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Just now, oldmanfan said:

I would support investigation into some of the material you've presented.  But you also need to acknowledge when both houses of congress and our intelligence agencies all agree the Russians tried to influence our election that it also deserves complete investigation.

 

I do acknowledge that fact, very much so. But it's not that simple, and you know it. Everyone - including me - agrees Russia meddled/tried to meddle in our election. Like they've done in every one of our elections this century. This isn't new, and it isn't all that dangerous considering the means in which they attempted to meddle (Facebook and propaganda push). The house and senate committees - let alone all 17 intel agencies - differ WILDLY with one another when it comes to whether or not Russia "hacked" the election or the DCCC/DNC. 

 

Which brings this full circle back to the discussion of the server. The fact it hasn't been examined directly leaves all this open to reasonable doubt. To suggest it's an open and closed case which everyone agrees is inaccurate. 

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