Bob in STL Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Bennett is worthy of HOF discussion. Had the Bills won a few SB’s and he made a few big plays in those games his stats would be good enough. They didn’t and he didn’t. Bennett had HOF talent but will end up in the Hall of Very Good. Should make Bill’s Wall someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 9 hours ago, mrags said: 17 stitches in yo @ss!!! Never heard that stitch count. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Lurker said: Never heard that stitch count. Link? Well, that would be me saying that I know a guy that knows a guy that shared a jail cell with CB. But nobody would believe me so I’m not going to bother wasting my time on the story. But in all all seriousness, I can’t recall for sure that the actual number was 17. Only that I did know at one point and thought that was the number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Very good player. For every HOF inductee, there are about 5 players like Bennett: One of the better players of his time, but the HOF is for elite players. Bennett was not elite. He has elite flashes. Elite flashes do not make one a HOF player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 33 minutes ago, mrags said: Well, that would be me saying that I know a guy that knows a guy that shared a jail cell with CB. But nobody would believe me so I’m not going to bother wasting my time on the story. But in all all seriousness, I can’t recall for sure that the actual number was 17. Only that I did know at one point and thought that was the number. So, in other words, you're talking out of your ass....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenyellowred Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 10 hours ago, folz said: Yeah, I'm kind of surprised at how many people think Cornelius shouldn't even be in the conversation for HOF (as far as his playing career goes). I'm not saying he should be a shoo in or anything, but when you think of great players, you think about them making those clutch plays at just the right moment to turn a game around. And honestly, though Kelly, Hull, Thurman, and Reed were the engine that drove that team, when I think of clutch plays that turned games around in a heartbeat, I think of three players: Bruce, Tasker, and Bennett. Biscuit had a knack for making big plays at just the right time in a game. Guys can rack up a lot of stats without being great...but the great ones always come through in the clutch and Cornelius did that on a consistent basis throughout his career. And for comparison sake: Yrs Gm Starts Total Tackles Avg. Tkls/yr Total sacks Avg. sk/yr Total FF Avg. FF/yr Total FR Avg. FR/yr Total INT Avg. INT/yr Bennett 14 206 204 1,050 75 71.5 5.12 31 2.2 27 1.93 7 .5 Urlacher 13 182 180 1,040 80 41.5 3.19 11 .85 15 1.15 22 2 Awards/Honors Urlacher Bennett 8 Pro Bowls 5 Pro Bowls Defensive Rookie of year All Rookie Team 1 Defensive player of year 2 AFC Defensive player of the year HOF All-decade team 2000s HOF All-decade team 1990s 4 First Team All-Pro 3 First Team All-Pro 7-time Defensive player of the week 7-time Defensive player of the week 1 Super Bowl appearance 5 Super Bowl appearances played 13 years for one team played 9 years for one team Urlacher is a first-ballot Hall of Famer and most think Cornelius shouldn't even be in the discussion? Apples and oranges. Urlacher was a middle linebacker. 13 hours ago, Gugny said: It's already watered down - oh, and includes a murderer. Sorry, OJ was never convicted of murder. Murder is a legal term. It is possible he may have killed someone without justification, but he did not murder anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 29 minutes ago, Lurker said: So, in other words, you're talking out of your ass....? Nope. It’s inside info that I know of. I may have the stitch count incorrect. But from what I remember, way back in 1999ish, was that it was 17 stitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 13 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: Bennett was a key player on those 90’s Bills teams. He absolutely possessed HOF talent. Unfortunately, he never was able to consistently show it. Unlike say, a Bruce Smith who early on decided he would dedicate himself to the game and delivered consistent excellence. There were plays Bennett would make that would leave you astounded. Then he might disappear for a long stretch of time. I recall a play in an AFC title game vs KC where Montana dropped back to pass and Bennett rushed him. It was a well executed screen to Marcus Allen in the flat, but Bennett wasn’t fooled. He stopped in his tracks and headed toward the waiting Allen with tremendous speed , tackling him in the backfield for a loss. The announcing team were just about at a loss for words at the display of sheer athleticism. Unfortunately for the Biscuit, his career was just a very good one, with valleys to go with the peaks. Wall of fame, yes. Not HOF worthy , though he could have been. His athleticism was freaky to say the least. If he possessed the same maniacal dedication to his preparation like Bruce did, he would have been a first ballot HOFer. I also think he could have been one of the greatest MLBs of all time had he given that a chance when asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 18 hours ago, BillsPride12 said: Doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame but definitely should be on the Bills Wall of Fame 100% agree. Biscuit was a Bills great, but not an all time great. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Very Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folz Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) Ok, let me take another stab at this: There are currently 33 Linebackers in the Hall of Fame Gil Brandt/NFL.com lists him as the 22nd best linebacker of all-time (although the list mistakenly says that Bennett is already in the Hall) http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000816217 This list has him as #26 of modern era LBs https://bleacherreport.com/articles/409994-top-50-linebackers-of-the-modern-era With 94,600 votes in, Ranker lists CB as #33 best LB of all time https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/top-25-greatest-linebackers-of-all-time I know these lists aren't authoritative in any way, and if you think he shouldn't get in because of the incident in 1999, I totally understand that perspective, but I'm still surprised how many Bills fans don't think he should even be in the conversation based on his playing career alone. This is not meant as snark in anyway, but are those who say he's not HOF worthy old enough to have actually watched his career? Again I'm not saying he should definitely be in, just surprised how many think he definitely should not get in. I just wonder because it is hard to find highlights from his career and he has kind of been invisible in and around Buffalo since his career ended (unlike many of the other guys), so maybe people just forget about how good he actually was, and so don't put him in the same level as the other greats from that team. But, when Cornelius came, he helped take that defense to another level. Just as Thurman did to the offense the following season. Those two and Lofton in '89 were the last three big pieces of the puzzle to the Super Bowl teams. His pass rushing presence forced teams to pick their poison between Bruce and Biscuit. At times, he was flat out dominant. I know some say that he wasn't consistently great. And yes, he had like 3 or 4 monster seasons that stand out above the others. But no player has a career year every year. You can't compare him to himself. If you expected Cornelius to have one of those monster seasons every year of his career or even just the 9 he was in in Buffalo, he would probably be in the conversation for the greatest linebacker of all time now. That's how good his stats were those years. And the dropoff between those seasons wasn't like he disappeared, we are talking about sacks dipping from 9.5 to 5.0 and tackles dipping from like 103-107 to 81-96, while still causing just as many turnovers. [His tackles did dip significantly in 2 of his 9 seasons with the Bills, in 1989 (54) when he was dealing with a shoulder injury, played only 12 games (he still had 5.5 sacks and caused 5 turnovers that year) and in 1994 (58)---not sure if anything was going on that year (still notched 5 sacks and 4 turnovers that season).] Edited July 14, 2018 by folz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 3 hours ago, greenyellowred said: Apples and oranges. Urlacher was a middle linebacker. Sorry, OJ was never convicted of murder. Murder is a legal term. It is possible he may have killed someone without justification, but he did not murder anyone. Murder is a word in the English language. It has a common use definition. By that definition, OJ is a (admitted) murderer. He was not convicted of the crime of murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 I never thought he was a serious HOF contender, but his credentials are actually very strong. How many guys have all this on their resume and don't make it: First Team All-Pro, 3 times Pro Bowl, 5 times AFC Defensive Player of the Year, 2 times NFL 1990's All-Decade Team Maybe the thing keeping him out was that all of this was over a fairly short period, but that's still a lot of big-time honors for a guy not to get enshrined someday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenyellowred Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Murder is a word in the English language. It has a common use definition. By that definition, OJ is a (admitted) murderer. Semantics aside, we don't know for a fact that he killed anyone. So it is not right to call him a murderer. He was not convicted of the crime of murder. Besides, he was and is a Buffalo Bill. Fans didn't stop supporting Kobe or Big Ben after they were charged with rape, so it should be no different with OJ. Edited July 14, 2018 by greenyellowred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 15 hours ago, folz said: Yeah, I'm kind of surprised at how many people think Cornelius shouldn't even be in the conversation for HOF (as far as his playing career goes). I'm not saying he should be a shoo in or anything, but when you think of great players, you think about them making those clutch plays at just the right moment to turn a game around. And honestly, though Kelly, Hull, Thurman, and Reed were the engine that drove that team, when I think of clutch plays that turned games around in a heartbeat, I think of three players: Bruce, Tasker, and Bennett. Biscuit had a knack for making big plays at just the right time in a game. Guys can rack up a lot of stats without being great...but the great ones always come through in the clutch and Cornelius did that on a consistent basis throughout his career. And for comparison sake: Yrs Gm Starts Total Tackles Avg. Tkls/yr Total sacks Avg. sk/yr Total FF Avg. FF/yr Total FR Avg. FR/yr Total INT Avg. INT/yr Bennett 14 206 204 1,050 75 71.5 5.12 31 2.2 27 1.93 7 .5 Urlacher 13 182 180 1,040 80 41.5 3.19 11 .85 15 1.15 22 2 Awards/Honors Urlacher Bennett 8 Pro Bowls 5 Pro Bowls Defensive Rookie of year All Rookie Team 1 Defensive player of year 2 AFC Defensive player of the year HOF All-decade team 2000s HOF All-decade team 1990s 4 First Team All-Pro 3 First Team All-Pro 7-time Defensive player of the week 7-time Defensive player of the week 1 Super Bowl appearance 5 Super Bowl appearances played 13 years for one team played 9 years for one team Urlacher is a first-ballot Hall of Famer and most think Cornelius shouldn't even be in the discussion? You make a compelling argument, but he would have made it in by now if the voters want him in there. My point was not I don’t want to see Bennett getting into the HOF, just I think it would have happened by now. For being relatively new, you did a lot of hw for this one and on behalf of the crew, thanks for such a thoughtful post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, greenyellowred said: Semantics aside, we don't know for a fact that he killed anyone. So it is not right to call him a murderer. He was not convicted of the crime of murder. Besides, he was and is a Buffalo Bill. Fans didn't stop supporting Kobe or Big Ben after they were charged with rape, so it should be no different with OJ. You confuse “murderer” with “convicted murderer”. That’s not a difference in semantics. Also, in a book and recently televised interview after the book was written, he admitted his crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Reed was the furthest stretch the Hall was admitting for that era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenyellowred Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: You confuse “murderer” with “convicted murderer”. That’s not a difference in semantics. Also, in a book and recently televised interview after the book was written, he admitted his crime. You can't be a murderer without a conviction. And OJ did not confess to anything. It was all hypothetical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stenbar Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 3 hours ago, skibum said: I never thought he was a serious HOF contender, but his credentials are actually very strong. How many guys have all this on their resume and don't make it: First Team All-Pro, 3 times Pro Bowl, 5 times AFC Defensive Player of the Year, 2 times NFL 1990's All-Decade Team Maybe the thing keeping him out was that all of this was over a fairly short period, but that's still a lot of big-time honors for a guy not to get enshrined someday. I agree. On a side note, if Andre Tippett is in Cornholio should be in also not taking into consideration of his off season actions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 On 7/13/2018 at 7:32 PM, BillsPride12 said: Doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame but definitely should be on the Bills Wall of Fame I'd vote for both. But not being on the Bills Wall of Fame is a glaring omission, IMO. 20 hours ago, folz said: Yeah, I'm kind of surprised at how many people think Cornelius shouldn't even be in the conversation for HOF (as far as his playing career goes). I'm not saying he should be a shoo in or anything, but when you think of great players, you think about them making those clutch plays at just the right moment to turn a game around. And honestly, though Kelly, Hull, Thurman, and Reed were the engine that drove that team, when I think of clutch plays that turned games around in a heartbeat, I think of three players: Bruce, Tasker, and Bennett. Biscuit had a knack for making big plays at just the right time in a game. Guys can rack up a lot of stats without being great...but the great ones always come through in the clutch and Cornelius did that on a consistent basis throughout his career. And for comparison sake: Yrs Gm Starts Total Tackles Avg. Tkls/yr Total sacks Avg. sk/yr Total FF Avg. FF/yr Total FR Avg. FR/yr Total INT Avg. INT/yr Bennett 14 206 204 1,050 75 71.5 5.12 31 2.2 27 1.93 7 .5 Urlacher 13 182 180 1,040 80 41.5 3.19 11 .85 15 1.15 22 2 Awards/Honors Urlacher Bennett 8 Pro Bowls 5 Pro Bowls Defensive Rookie of year All Rookie Team 1 Defensive player of year 2 AFC Defensive player of the year HOF All-decade team 2000s HOF All-decade team 1990s 4 First Team All-Pro 3 First Team All-Pro 7-time Defensive player of the week 7-time Defensive player of the week 1 Super Bowl appearance 5 Super Bowl appearances played 13 years for one team played 9 years for one team Urlacher is a first-ballot Hall of Famer and most think Cornelius shouldn't even be in the discussion? Agree 100% with your post. He passed the eye test as a big game/situational player, and as you pointed out, and thanks for that work, passes the statistical test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 His best yr was his rookie yr where he looked like the 2nd coming of Lawrence Taylor. Unfortunately he got lazy and a potential HoF career became just a very good career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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