Philadelphia Inquirer staff writer says Shady struggles with resolving conflicts civilly

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, mrags said:

What’s the difference between your thought process and mine? There is none whatsoever. From the seats that we sit in, there is absolutely zero difference. 

 

And just curious, like the OJ verdict, if he is proven guilty, but YOUR evidence proves that he’s innocent, does that make it so? 

Trust me, my thought process is dramatically different from yours. 

 

With respect to the OJ verdict: How is that relevant  to the McCoy situation? My position on McCoy's innocence or guilt is at this time I simply I don't know.  I'm willing to wait for more evidence in this case before making a judgment. If you want to make assumptions and a quick judgment that is your business. 

[mrags]

20 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Trust me, my thought process is dramatically different from yours. 

 

With respect to the OJ verdict: How is that relevant  to the McCoy situation? My position on McCoy's innocence or guilt is at this time I simply I don't know.  I'm willing to wait for more evidence in this case before making a judgment. If you want to make assumptions and a quick judgment that is your business. 

Yeah. I’ll assume he did it and he’s a scumbag because I don’t know him personally nor do I care to. If he’s innocent and not responsible for anything that he’s being accused of, that’s great. He’s still on the team and still contributing to wins. Other than that, it does not effect me in the slightest. 

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, mrags said:

Yeah. I’ll assume he did it and he’s a scumbag because I don’t know him personally nor do I care to. If he’s innocent and not responsible for anything that he’s being accused of, that’s great. He’s still on the team and still contributing to wins. Other than that, it does not effect me in the slightest. 

Your line of reasoning is very circuitous and  odd. That's okay. We drive in different lanes. I'm fine with that. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, mrags said:

So someone accusing someone of beating them or having them beaten. Along with beating a child. Abusing a dog. And using multiple drugs isn’t good enough for you to believe that someone could be a real POS that did everything she said he did. Got ya

 

Sure, someone (Shady) *could* be a real POS that did everything she said he did.  But absent any evidence....let's put it this way. 

 

Suppose you have a crazy ex whose friend gets on the social media bullhorn tomorrow and says you poisoned her cat, molested her child, and paid thugs to smash up her car.  How do you want to be treated?  Do you want everyone to say "that accusation is good enough for me to believe that Mrags is a real POS who did everything she said he did"? and "I'm going to assume Mrags did it and he's a scumbag because I don't know him personally"?

 

Or do you want everyone to say "let's wait for some facts and evidence here before we rush to judgement"?

 

I'd really be surprised if you'd be fine with being "assumed guilty" by all and sundry.

 

Me, I think Shady is a hot-head and a bit of a gangsta in his mentality, but there are plenty hot-head gangsta mentalities who don't beat their dogs kids and girlfriends.  So I'll wait and see.

[mrags]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Sure, someone (Shady) *could* be a real POS that did everything she said he did.  But absent any evidence....let's put it this way. 

 

Suppose you have a crazy ex whose friend gets on the social media bullhorn tomorrow and says you poisoned her cat, molested her child, and paid thugs to smash up her car.  How do you want to be treated?  Do you want everyone to say "that accusation is good enough for me to believe that Mrags is a real POS who did everything she said he did"? and "I'm going to assume Mrags did it and he's a scumbag because I don't know him personally"?

 

Or do you want everyone to say "let's wait for some facts and evidence here before we rush to judgement"?

 

I'd really be surprised if you'd be fine with being "assumed guilty" by all and sundry.

 

Me, I think Shady is a hot-head and a bit of a gangsta in his mentality, but there are plenty hot-head gangsta mentalities who don't beat their dogs kids and girlfriends.  So I'll wait and see.

My point is, everyone will have their own opinions of the story anyway. So it’s not going to matter. Just like I am proving, thy even though he hasn’t been guilty of anything yet, I still think he did it and he and his defense team can convince me otherwise. You are on the opposite side and choose to believe he’s innocent until proven guilty. 

 

Whats funny tho, is I asked JohnC’s opinion if he thought OJ murderered his ex wife and Ron Goldman and he believed he did kill them. Even though, the courts acquitted OJ of the murders. 

[DC Tom]

17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Sure, someone (Shady) *could* be a real POS that did everything she said he did.  But absent any evidence....let's put it this way. 

 

Suppose you have a crazy ex whose friend gets on the social media bullhorn tomorrow and says you poisoned her cat, molested her child, and paid thugs to smash up her car.  How do you want to be treated?  Do you want everyone to say "that accusation is good enough for me to believe that Mrags is a real POS who did everything she said he did"? and "I'm going to assume Mrags did it and he's a scumbag because I don't know him personally"?

 

 

I'd just kill myself and be done with it.  I've seen enough that I'd have no expectation of being cleared of such an accusation.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, mrags said:

My point is, everyone will have their own opinions of the story anyway. So it’s not going to matter. Just like I am proving, thy even though he hasn’t been guilty of anything yet, I still think he did it and he and his defense team can convince me otherwise. You are on the opposite side and choose to believe he’s innocent until proven guilty. 

 

Didn't answer my question tho.  Suppose you have a crazy ex whose friend gets on the social media bullhorn tomorrow and says you poisoned her cat, molested her child, and paid thugs to smash up her car.  How do you want to be treated? 

 

Do you want everyone to say "that accusation is good enough for me to believe that Mrags is a real POS who did everything she said he did"? and "I'm going to assume Mrags did it and he's a scumbag because I don't know him personally"?

 

Or do you want everyone to say "let's wait for some facts and evidence here before we rush to judgement"?

 

Where Shady is concerned, I'll wait and see.  "Innocent until proven guilty" is supposed to be the law here - for all of us, regardless of social media.

 

17 minutes ago, mrags said:

Whats funny tho, is I asked JohnC’s opinion if he thought OJ murderered his ex wife and Ron Goldman and he believed he did kill them. Even though, the courts acquitted OJ of the murders. 

 

In principle, in the OJ case, there is extensive evidence available from the police investigation and the trial.  Hell, my mom videotaped the whole thing - she had 2 boxes of the tapes she thought were valuable to someone LOL!  So there was a lot of evidence someone could examine and make up their mind.  Whether JohnC did that or not, can't tell ya.  I didn't, so as far as I'm concerned I'd go with the legal verdict.

 

For McCoy, unless you know something we don't, all we got is his ex-girlfriend's friend's Instagram.  Even just in my mind, I wouldn't convict you on that, so I won't do Shady.

[JohnC]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

 

In principle, in the OJ case, there is extensive evidence available from the police investigation and the trial.  Hell, my mom videotaped the whole thing - she had 2 boxes of the tapes she thought were valuable to someone LOL!  So there was a lot of evidence someone could examine and make up their mind.  Whether JohnC did that or not, can't tell ya.  I didn't, so as far as I'm concerned I'd go with the legal verdict.

 

 

I followed the case fairly closely. Probably not to the extent as your mother did. In my view I'm confident that OJ did the dastardly act.  My strongly held belief is that the legal verdict was wrong. However, from  a police procedural malfeasance standpoint a case can be made that it wasn't handled properly and the verdict was rendered on that basis  My belief is that case was an example of jury nullification with race being the underpinning. . 

[mrags]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Didn't answer my question tho.  Suppose you have a crazy ex whose friend gets on the social media bullhorn tomorrow and says you poisoned her cat, molested her child, and paid thugs to smash up her car.  How do you want to be treated? 

 

Do you want everyone to say "that accusation is good enough for me to believe that Mrags is a real POS who did everything she said he did"? and "I'm going to assume Mrags did it and he's a scumbag because I don't know him personally"?

 

Or do you want everyone to say "let's wait for some facts and evidence here before we rush to judgement"?

 

Where Shady is concerned, I'll wait and see.  "Innocent until proven guilty" is supposed to be the law here - for all of us, regardless of social media.

 

 

In principle, in the OJ case, there is extensive evidence available from the police investigation and the trial.  Hell, my mom videotaped the whole thing - she had 2 boxes of the tapes she thought were valuable to someone LOL!  So there was a lot of evidence someone could examine and make up their mind.  Whether JohnC did that or not, can't tell ya.  I didn't, so as far as I'm concerned I'd go with the legal verdict.

 

For McCoy, unless you know something we don't, all we got is his ex-girlfriend's friend's Instagram.  Even just in my mind, I wouldn't convict you on that, so I won't do Shady.

My answer to your question is and will always be.... there is nothing I can do about peoples opinion of me. Personally. Professionally. However you want to swing it. 

 

Others opinions of me, mean nothing to me. That’s my answer. Walk a mile in my shoes and experience for yourself. 

 

I am not interested in proving anything to anybody except myself. My family. And my friends. And I have no doubt they would support me to the end no matter what. 

[Heavy Kevi]

8 hours ago, mrags said:

Actually. That’s for the courts to decide. On a personal level, From someone that has nothing to do with the situation; he was accused by someone of committing an act. It should actually be he is guilty until he can prove he had nothing to do with it. 

 

And for the record, I’m just curious if you believe OJ killed 2 people? Because the courts decided he was innocent, however the majority of the public believe a murderer got away. 

 

I see your point, but the prospect of guilty until proven innocent is one of the scariest things I can imagine. From my perspective, it would undermine everything I believe in about what a justice system should be.

 

First off, nobody is saying McCoy attacked her personally, it was reportedly by a third party. The link (or lack thereof) to Shady is not yet publicly known. Really hard to jump on someone because of what amounts to speculation since we aren't close to the situation.

 

Now of course I think OJ did it. But the main difference is that has played out. I watched the trial. Right now in the McCoy case, we have some cryptic wording from her lawyer and a social media post by someone close to her that was quickly deleted.

 

There has to be more to guilty than that. We can't assume people are guilty. Let me also say that I believe McCoy is the most likely suspect in this case, and I would not be surprised if he did it. Cordon seems as credible as anyone I suppose since I don't know anything about her other than she's beat up. I just don't allow myself to prejudge situations in a social media lynch mob. Accused does not equal guilty.

 

My $.04

[mrags]

59 minutes ago, Shotgunner said:

 

I see your point, but the prospect of guilty until proven innocent is one of the scariest things I can imagine. From my perspective, it would undermine everything I believe in about what a justice system should be.

 

First off, nobody is saying McCoy attacked her personally, it was reportedly by a third party. The link (or lack thereof) to Shady is not yet publicly known. Really hard to jump on someone because of what amounts to speculation since we aren't close to the situation.

 

Now of course I think OJ did it. But the main difference is that has played out. I watched the trial. Right now in the McCoy case, we have some cryptic wording from her lawyer and a social media post by someone close to her that was quickly deleted.

 

There has to be more to guilty than that. We can't assume people are guilty. Let me also say that I believe McCoy is the most likely suspect in this case, and I would not be surprised if he did it. Cordon seems as credible as anyone I suppose since I don't know anything about her other than she's beat up. I just don't allow myself to prejudge situations in a social media lynch mob. Accused does not equal guilty.

 

My $.04

For the record, I have said that it is my opinion that Shady had something to do with it. And my opinion means absolutely nothing. I chose to believe what I believe because he is the most likely suspect at this point. He had motive. He has acted like a thug in the past. He recently commented that she should really return the jewelry because someone could rob her. It just seems very Shady (pun intended) to me.

 

What do I know, I’m not around career criminals every day at work or anything. 

 

And of course I’m not saying the justice system should work this way. But I’m not the courts here. I’m only a guy that has no connection to either party. And my opinion is that he’s done what she said he did based off the info that I have. And nothing my opinion, or anyone else’s on this planet (with the exception of the jurors if this goes to trial) has any bearing on what happened and what is going to happen with the people involved. 

 

All I’m saying is... people need to stop caring what others think about them and worry about themselves. This situation has absolutely zero bearing on anyone here’s lives. Unless you really let this football team control your life I guess. But then again, most people are a bunch of stupid fans that would let this situation effect them. 

[Heavy Kevi]

22 minutes ago, mrags said:

For the record, I have said that it is my opinion that Shady had something to do with it. And my opinion means absolutely nothing. I chose to believe what I believe because he is the most likely suspect at this point. He had motive. He has acted like a thug in the past. He recently commented that she should really return the jewelry because someone could rob her. It just seems very Shady (pun intended) to me.

 

What do I know, I’m not around career criminals every day at work or anything. 

 

And of course I’m not saying the justice system should work this way. But I’m not the courts here. I’m only a guy that has no connection to either party. And my opinion is that he’s done what she said he did based off the info that I have. And nothing my opinion, or anyone else’s on this planet (with the exception of the jurors if this goes to trial) has any bearing on what happened and what is going to happen with the people involved. 

 

All I’m saying is... people need to stop caring what others think about them and worry about themselves. This situation has absolutely zero bearing on anyone here’s lives. Unless you really let this football team control your life I guess. But then again, most people are a bunch of stupid fans that would let this situation effect them. 

 

That's a fair assessment.

 

I also see your point about "caring what others think" just on this forum, but thanks to unsubstansiated accusations (perhaps true, perhaps not) on social media, people have lost careers, credibility, etc in the real world. These people have been harassed, threatened harm upon, and more. It's all fun and games and just bluster on the internet until it's not.

 

People put all their info online these days. If you want to ruin someone you can just start a tweeting campaign at their employer or smear them publicly with just a few key strokes. We are sliding into a world where public opinion is formed by internet mobs... and like it or not they have the power to take people down.

 

I honestly believe being falsly accused and living that hell can be just as bad as some of the crimes they are accused of. 

 

If I had to pick a side or place a bet, I would bet on Shady being involved. There is a decent amount of circumstansial evidence, but contrary to the common coloquialism- where there is smoke, there isn't neccesarily fire. At the very leasy we have to be leery of a frame job, which you are much more likely to be targeted for if famous, rich, or a d-bag: and Shady checks all those boxes. And lets not forget that she is also a possible disgruntled ex.

[KingRex]

Actually, in his criminal trial OJ was NOT found innocent.  The jury found him NOT GUILTY.  This NOT a declaration of innocence by a unanimous verdict of 12 of his fellow citizens but instead a unanimous finding of 12 of his fellow citizens that the state did not reach the substantial burden of proving his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

However, a jury of fellow citizens found him responsible for and financially liable for the death of two people based on a preponderance of the evidence..

 

These verdicts can both be true due to the different charges and the differing standards of guilt.

 

Was he convicted

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, KingRex said:

Actually, in his criminal trial OJ was NOT found innocent.  The jury found him NOT GUILTY.  This NOT a declaration of innocence by a unanimous verdict of 12 of his fellow citizens but instead a unanimous finding of 12 of his fellow citizens that the state did not reach the substantial burden of proving his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

However, a jury of fellow citizens found him responsible for and financially liable for the death of two people based on a preponderance of the evidence..

 

These verdicts can both be true due to the different charges and the differing standards of guilt.

 

Was he convicted

Oh, I’m sorry. I must have missed the part where he served prison time for murder. 

[Heavy Kevi]

To further stir the pot...

 

https://articles-newyorkupstate-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/articles.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2018/07/attorney_delicia_cordon_no_longer_certain_lesean_mccoy_was_involved_in_the_attac.amp?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#amp_tf=From %1%24s

 

From Cordon's attourney, she is "no longer cettain" McCoy is responsible, but she "suspects he had something to do with it".

 

It stands to reason that if she's not even sure, perhaps outsiders shouldn't be either.

 

Somebody has to be the devil's advocate.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

44 minutes ago, mrags said:

For the record, I have said that it is my opinion that Shady had something to do with it. And my opinion means absolutely nothing. I chose to believe what I believe because he is the most likely suspect at this point. He had motive. He has acted like a thug in the past. He recently commented that she should really return the jewelry because someone could rob her. It just seems very Shady (pun intended) to me.

 

What do I know, I’m not around career criminals every day at work or anything. 

 

And of course I’m not saying the justice system should work this way. But I’m not the courts here. I’m only a guy that has no connection to either party. And my opinion is that he’s done what she said he did based off the info that I have. And nothing my opinion, or anyone else’s on this planet (with the exception of the jurors if this goes to trial) has any bearing on what happened and what is going to happen with the people involved. 

 

All I’m saying is... people need to stop caring what others think about them and worry about themselves. This situation has absolutely zero bearing on anyone here’s lives. Unless you really let this football team control your life I guess. But then again, most people are a bunch of stupid fans that would let this situation effect them. 

 

Haha you sound like my SIL the retired corrections LPN.  Sad thing is, she would call it right in real life more often than not. 

 

My personal opinion is it's more likely than not Shady had something to do with the robbery/assault.  But I also think there's a significant likelihood that something else went down, and she and her friend "seized the day" to try to get back at Shady or as leverage to get him to give her some "walking funds".   Specifically, it looks as though she leads a high price lifestyle with no visible means of support.   She's paying the utilities and for travel to London somehow.  Just maybe she had a dissatisfied client who got rough and she seized the opportunity to send the jewelry out of the house with her son, claim it was stolen so she'd have $$ to fund her new digs, and implicate Shady?

 

I have no opinion of the "friend of victim's" Instagram accusing McCoy not only of assaulting her friend, but child and animal and PED abuse.   I think friend was throwing out every accusation ever made against an NFL player there.  Again, my personal opinion. 

I don't believe the courts, or the NFL, should operate on an "guilty until proven innocent" basis and it sounds as though you agree there, which wasn't clear to me up-thread. 

 

As far as "caring what others think of them", where it doesn't impact them personally I don't think a lot of people do, nor are "affected" by it.  The problem that I have is where what others think, in a rush to judgement without facts, has real impact upon people's lives and livelihood.  I have my opinion, but I don't think my opinion (or the joint social media opinion of multitudes) should affect Shady's profession - I think he should be unaffected until there is hard evidence that he had something to do with it, not just some Instagram B.S.

To me it's a "golden rule" thing, if I were in a situation with accusations that could cost me my job, maybe impact child custody, etc etc I would 100% want to be treated as

'innocent until proven guilty', so that is how I think it is right to treat others.  It's not some "bunch of stupid fans letting the situation affect them", it doesn't matter to my personal life what Shady did and whether or not he is part of the team.

[mrags]

35 minutes ago, Shotgunner said:

 

That's a fair assessment.

 

I also see your point about "caring what others think" just on this forum, but thanks to unsubstansiated accusations (perhaps true, perhaps not) on social media, people have lost careers, credibility, etc in the real world. These people have been harassed, threatened harm upon, and more. It's all fun and games and just bluster on the internet until it's not.

 

People put all their info online these days. If you want to ruin someone you can just start a tweeting campaign at their employer or smear them publicly with just a few key strokes. We are sliding into a world where public opinion is formed by internet mobs... and like it or not they have the power to take people down.

 

I honestly believe being falsly accused and living that hell can be just as bad as some of the crimes they are accused of. 

 

If I had to pick a side or place a bet, I would bet on Shady being involved. There is a decent amount of circumstansial evidence, but contrary to the common coloquialism- where there is smoke, there isn't neccesarily fire. At the very leasy we have to be leery of a frame job, which you are much more likely to be targeted for if famous, rich, or a d-bag: and Shady checks all those boxes. And lets not forget that she is also a possible disgruntled ex.

Ding ding ding!!!

 

and this is an addition to my point. Social media will be the downfall of society. Too often are people too worried about what others think of them. That people feel the need to explain every single thing they’ve eaten that day and taken pictures of it for all to see. Too many reporters that don’t care what the facts are before they come out, they just want to be the first to break the story. And the list goes on and on and on. 

 

Everything ties into, worry about yourself and stop caring what others think about you. Wait for facts to come out before proclaiming someone innocent or guilty. But at the same time form your own opinion. Above all else, don’t ever believe that your opinion is better than someone else’s. Or believe that because you feel strongly about something, that others must do the same. You don’t need to attempt to change someone’s mind all the time. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, mrags said:

Oh, I’m sorry. I must have missed the part where he served prison time for murder. 

 

C'mon man, you know the difference between being found "not guilty" and being found "innocent"

[mrags]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

C'mon man, you know the difference between being found "not guilty" and being found "innocent"

I know that OJ was not found guilty in the murder trial and did not serve prison time for murder at any time. 

 

 

I just find it funny that there’s people that claim to not base an opinion on something until facts are presented. And the courts had enough facts that acquitted OJ of the murders, yet they can’t  come to grips of the facts. 

Edited July 14, 2018 by mrags

[Heavy Kevi]

5 minutes ago, mrags said:

Ding ding ding!!!

 

and this is an addition to my point. Social media will be the downfall of society. Too often are people too worried about what others think of them. That people feel the need to explain every single thing they’ve eaten that day and taken pictures of it for all to see. Too many reporters that don’t care what the facts are before they come out, they just want to be the first to break the story. And the list goes on and on and on. 

 

Everything ties into, worry about yourself and stop caring what others think about you. Wait for facts to come out before proclaiming someone innocent or guilty. But at the same time form your own opinion. Above all else, don’t ever believe that your opinion is better than someone else’s. Or believe that because you feel strongly about something, that others must do the same. You don’t need to attempt to change someone’s mind all the time. 

 

Yeah I agree with every word of this post. Two Bills Drive, BBMB, and Bladeforums.com are the only "social media" I have been involved in (if that counts?)

 

I've never had a Myspace, Facebook, Twitter, Instantgram, or any of that. Honestly I don't have a computer or even internet at the house, just this dang smartphone.

 

Social media is the scourge of our time, and quite frankly I live an incredibly happy life and wholeheartedly believe it's because I am only worried about pleasing myself. Like my Grandma always said "those who care don't matter, and those who matter don't care".

 

Cheers, Rags