NoSaint Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 1 minute ago, JohnC said: I'm not going to enter into the fray on judging him a good guy or a bad guy. However, if the discussion revolves around whether he is a mature or immature individual that is another category that directly relates to his profession. Some players are always going to have issues swirling around themselves outside of football. Yet those activities outside of the game directly relate to football. Without engaging in the legality of his conduct his poor judgment off the field has resulted in his suspension and closer scrutiny by the league office that can imperil his career. It seems to me that both Foster and Dareus are the type of people who can't be trusted, especially off the field. I'm not saying they are bad people. I don't know much about Foster but I do know that Dareus isn't a bad guy. But what I am saying is that they are far from being mature adults who can responsibly handle the challenges and temptations outside of the game associated with being a pro athlete. The issues that made Foster drop down to the 31st pick are the same issues that resulted in him being suspended and having legal troubles. He is the type of person that McDermott doesn't want on his roster and want to deal with. In the short run you are missing out on some talent but in the long run you are building a smarter and more mature roster that will prove to be more successful. That last bit can be a bit of a question mark, John. I won’t say it’s a given. A lot of times those types of guys are what push a good team over the top during a championship window. With the cap leveling talent, hitting on a few risks on the cheap goes a long way to creating a talent differential. A few side notes: a top 3 pick getting a 100m contract with little team protection is a bit different than 31. Adding those guys to a very good team with a qb and a true championship window open is much more likely to work than tossing them on a bad and already chaotic roster. 2 minutes ago, stony said: The Calguns Foundation seems like a solid source w/o any agenda to push. It also seems to address the wording of the statement vs the current law much more directly than claiming that fosters situation is “bogus” 38 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: The charge was reduced to a misdemeanor. The gun was purchased legally in Alabama. So it was an on the fence between misdemeanor and felony situation and he got the lesser? Why’s it bogus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, NoSaint said: That last bit can be a bit of a question mark, John. I won’t say it’s a given. A lot of times those types of guys are what push a good team over the top during a championship window. With the cap leveling talent, hitting on a few risks on the cheap goes a long way to creating a talent differential. A few side notes: a top 3 pick getting a 100m contract with little team protection is a bit different than 31. Adding those guys to a very good team with a qb and a true championship window open is much more likely to work than tossing them on a bad and already chaotic roster. It also seems to address the wording of the statement vs the current law much more directly than claiming that fosters situation is “bogus” So it was an on the fence between misdemeanor and felony situation and he got the lesser? Why’s it bogus? It’s explained well here. https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/04/12/1469660/0/en/Santa-Clara-DA-s-Office-Issues-Misleading-Statements-in-News-Release-About-California-Gun-Laws-Assault-Weapons.html 14 minutes ago, JohnC said: I'm not going to enter into the fray on judging him a good guy or a bad guy. However, if the discussion revolves around whether he is a mature or immature individual that is another category that directly relates to his profession. Some players are always going to have issues swirling around themselves outside of football. Yet those activities outside of the game directly relate to football. Without engaging in the legality of his conduct his poor judgment off the field has resulted in his suspension and closer scrutiny by the league office that can imperil his career. It seems to me that both Foster and Dareus are the type of people who can't be trusted, especially off the field. I'm not saying they are bad people. I don't know much about Foster but I do know that Dareus isn't a bad guy. But what I am saying is that they are far from being mature adults who can responsibly handle the challenges and temptations outside of the game associated with being a pro athlete. The issues that made Foster drop down to the 31st pick are the same issues that resulted in him being suspended and having legal troubles. He is the type of person that McDermott doesn't want on his roster and want to deal with. In the short run you are missing out on some talent but in the long run you are building a smarter and more mature roster that will prove to be more successful. There were medical concerns about Foster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: It’s explained well here. https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/04/12/1469660/0/en/Santa-Clara-DA-s-Office-Issues-Misleading-Statements-in-News-Release-About-California-Gun-Laws-Assault-Weapons.html There were medical concerns about Foster. The issues that have gotten him suspended and have jeopardized his career have little to do with his physical problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, JohnC said: The issues that have gotten him suspended and have jeopardized his career have little to do with his physical problems. He fell in the draft largely because of concerns with his shoulder. By all the accounts I’ve seen, he’s a team guy. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfgate.com/49ers/amp/49ers-warmly-welcome-back-Reuben-Foster-12955823.php Can you please explain why there was a rush to judgement on his guilt in the domestic violence case before any of the facts regarding the matter came out? Edited July 4, 2018 by Sky Diver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: He fell in the draft largely because of concerns with his shoulder. By all the accounts I’ve seen, he’s a team guy. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfgate.com/49ers/amp/49ers-warmly-welcome-back-Reuben-Foster-12955823.php Can you please explain why there was a rush to judgement on his guilt in the domestic violence case before any of the facts regarding the matter came out? What rush to judgment? He has been embroiled with issues since he began his career. As I said in a prior post the question isn't whether he is a criminal or not as it is whether he is mature enough to play in this league without being plagued with problems that affect his career. As it stands now he will be serving a suspension and will be under closer scrutiny by the league that could jeopardize his career. 34 minutes ago, NoSaint said: That last bit can be a bit of a question mark, John. I won’t say it’s a given. A lot of times those types of guys are what push a good team over the top during a championship window. With the cap leveling talent, hitting on a few risks on the cheap goes a long way to creating a talent differential. The problem isn't the first contract. From a talent standpoint you are getting a bargain price with that first contract. But is he the type of guy that you are willing to invest in with a more lucrative second contract? I'm not arguing that you should only select angels who volunteer at orphanages. What I'm arguing is that when you acquire too many of these immature people (not saying bad people) you end up with this constant personal turmoil that in the end doesn't help you as much as you think relative to their talent level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 29 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: He fell in the draft largely because of concerns with his shoulder. By all the accounts I’ve seen, he’s a team guy. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfgate.com/49ers/amp/49ers-warmly-welcome-back-Reuben-Foster-12955823.php What rush to judgement? He was convicted by most here for domestic violence before any of the facts came out. Why do you think that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) I can’t believe someone from such a prestigious academic school as Alabama could get suspended. This isn’t the Saban way! Edited July 4, 2018 by C.Biscuit97 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) 54 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I can’t believe someone from such a prestigious academic school as Alabama could get suspended. This isn’t the Saban way! UA is an excellent school that is a bargain for elite students. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/education/edlife/survival-strategies-for-public-universities.html State of the art facilities for athletes. https://bamahammer.com/2018/06/30/alabama-football-tide-near-top-ncaa-revenues-expenses/ Edited July 4, 2018 by Sky Diver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 The mean ACT for engineering students who enrolled in 2017 was 30.1. That means that the average engineering student at The University of Alabama in the class of 2021 scored higher than 94 out of 100 students that took the exam. Their average HS GPA was 3.96. Not only does UA attract top football talent, it attracts top students. Roll Tide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Geezus.....here it is again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankoElTanko Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) On 7/4/2018 at 7:23 AM, JohnC said: I'm not going to enter into the fray on judging him a good guy or a bad guy. However, if the discussion revolves around whether he is a mature or immature individual that is another category that directly relates to his profession. Some players are always going to have issues swirling around themselves outside of football. Yet those activities outside of the game directly relate to football. Without engaging in the legality of his conduct his poor judgment off the field has resulted in his suspension and closer scrutiny by the league office that can imperil his career. It seems to me that both Foster and Dareus are the type of people who can't be trusted, especially off the field. I'm not saying they are bad people. I don't know much about Foster but I do know that Dareus isn't a bad guy. But what I am saying is that they are far from being mature adults who can responsibly handle the challenges and temptations outside of the game associated with being a pro athlete. The issues that made Foster drop down to the 31st pick are the same issues that resulted in him being suspended and having legal troubles. He is the type of person that McDermott doesn't want on his roster and want to deal with. In the short run you are missing out on some talent but in the long run you are building a smarter and more mature roster that will prove to be more successful. Thank you so much for this.... Maybe the term "character" was a bit oversold and overstated but this ^ is EXACTLY what I was trying to convey... Unfortunately, you cannot EVER have ANYTHING negative to say about Alabama alumnus... In fact, it makes me that much more grateful to have AJ McCarron come season time because I really enjoy his opinions on TBD. However, with that being said your post is exactly why I would not touch Foster... Like I stated a ton. His decision making reflects poorly on how people (myself and what I assume to be the majority of teams that saw him fall to 31) view him... On 7/4/2018 at 7:35 AM, Sky Diver said: It’s explained well here. https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/04/12/1469660/0/en/Santa-Clara-DA-s-Office-Issues-Misleading-Statements-in-News-Release-About-California-Gun-Laws-Assault-Weapons.html There were medical concerns about Foster. There is absolutely NO WAY that his shoulder is the primary reason he fell to 31... He started the season ready to play... No team passes on supposed elite talent when they have an injury that "limits" them to starting week one and playing like a ROY candidate... Just admit it man, Foster makes terrible decisions and his maturity, character or whatever you want to call it, is now costing him games! On 7/4/2018 at 8:02 AM, JohnC said: What rush to judgment? He has been embroiled with issues since he began his career. As I said in a prior post the question isn't whether he is a criminal or not as it is whether he is mature enough to play in this league without being plagued with problems that affect his career. As it stands now he will be serving a suspension and will be under closer scrutiny by the league that could jeopardize his career. The problem isn't the first contract. From a talent standpoint you are getting a bargain price with that first contract. But is he the type of guy that you are willing to invest in with a more lucrative second contract? I'm not arguing that you should only select angels who volunteer at orphanages. What I'm arguing is that when you acquire too many of these immature people (not saying bad people) you end up with this constant personal turmoil that in the end doesn't help you as much as you think relative to their talent level. ^ Another testament to his decision making and judgement. He has literally been involved in multiple off-field incidents that have either correlated to assault, possession, traffic violation and domestic violence... ALREADY... IN HIS ROOKIE YR OFF SEASON AND YEAR ONE alone... I mean what it is going to take, an OJ-esque type performance, for you to believe that he cannot be trusted and is not the quality of man you may give him credit for... which solely seems to stem from his 3yrs (2 starting) at Alabama, where he left early. Why would it be so wrong to say that relying on him would be terrible because he is unreliable and immature. Having him on the Bills would be a massive liability due to his decision making skills, the same way that it is to the 49ers, who can not count on him for 16 games due to injuries AND legal issues/league related issues? 4 hours ago, Sky Diver said: The mean ACT for engineering students who enrolled in 2017 was 30.1. That means that the average engineering student at The University of Alabama in the class of 2021 scored higher than 94 out of 100 students that took the exam. Their average HS GPA was 3.96. Not only does UA attract top football talent, it attracts top students. Roll Tide! and I am sure that Reuben Foster exemplifies all of those traits... Roll Tide! Edited July 5, 2018 by FrankoElTanko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, FrankoElTanko said: Thank you so much for this.... Maybe the term "character" was a bit oversold and overstated but this ^ is EXACTLY what I was trying to convey... Unfortunately, you cannot EVER have ANYTHING negative to say about Alabama alumnus... In fact, it makes me that much more grateful to have AJ McCarron come season time because I really enjoy his opinions on TBD. However, with that being said your post is exactly why I would not touch Foster... Like I stated a ton. His decision making reflects poorly on how people (myself and what I assume to be the majority of teams that saw him fall to 31) view him... There is absolutely NO WAY that his shoulder is the primary reason he fell to 31... He started the season ready to play... No team passes on supposed elite talent when they have an injury that "limits" them to starting week one and playing like a ROY candidate... Just admit it man, Foster makes terrible decisions and his maturity, character or whatever you want to call it, is now costing him games! ^ Another testament to his decision making and judgement. He has literally been involved in multiple off-field incidents that have either correlated to assault, possession, traffic violation and domestic violence... ALREADY... IN HIS ROOKIE YR OFF SEASON AND YEAR ONE alone... I mean what it is going to take and OJ-esque performance, for you to believe that he cannot be trusted and is not the quality of man you may give him credit for... which solely seems to stem from his 3yrs (2 starting) at Alabama, where he left early. Why would it be so wrong to say that relying on him would be terrible because he is unreliable and immature. Having him on the Bills would be a massive liability due to his decision making skills, the same way that it is to the 49ers, who can not count on him for 16 games due to injuries AND legal issues/league related issues? and I am sure that Reuben Foster exemplifies all of those traits... Roll Tide! Haha, let’s judge an academic institution with 36,000 students based on 1 individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankoElTanko Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Sky Diver said: Haha, let’s judge an academic institution with 36,000 students based on 1 individual. Trust me I am not. I am sure Alabama is fine institution, just that Reuben Foster may not be a beacon of academic excellence. Plus, didnt you bring up their academic prowess in response to someone questioning how an Athlete of Saban's at Alabama could never be suspended because of how prestigious the school was academically (sarcasm from OP)? You win dude, the 49ers should be grateful for the 10 games (they may) get from Foster this year and even more ecstatic when their defensive captain returns next off-season to (maybe) be able to enter 2019 fresh and ready for a 16 game season with no drama/suspensions. In fact, it's too bad we passed on him, I would have much rather had an athlete of his caliber and a person with such a strong head on his shoulders to lead our defense over Tre White. Us and the rest of the NFL was crazy to pass on him for that "shoulder injury" that just keeps nagging him to this day... Unfortunate situation that same "injury" (maturity and suspensions) scouts could foresee being an issue just cost him a few games. Roll Tide! Go Bills, thank God we didn't touch the dude, problem city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) Barrett Jones, BS/MS in accounting with a 4.0 GPA both undergrad and grad. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_Jones You are aware that UA enrolls about 36,000 students, right? Edited July 5, 2018 by Sky Diver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankoElTanko Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 Just now, Sky Diver said: Barrett Jones, BS/MS in accounting with a 4.0 GPA both undergrad and grad. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_Jones You are aware that UA enrolls about 36,000 students, right? What does that have to do with Reuben Foster and him being a child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 minute ago, FrankoElTanko said: What does that have to do with Reuben Foster and him being a child? Just responding to this ridiculous comment. “I can’t believe someone from such a prestigious academic school as Alabama could get suspended. This isn’t the Saban way!” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: Haha, let’s judge an academic institution with 36,000 students based on 1 individual. Alabama has made tremendous strides in upgrading the university and making it a signature state school with some national and world recognized programs in the medical and science field. The recognition that they are getting in the academic world is well deserved. I have read where some students who have garnered scholarships from Harvard and other Ivy League schools have declined offers and instead decided to pursue their studies at Bama. No question that the University academic profile is on the rise, and deservedly so. However, too often when a Bama player is criticized the reflexive response from some Crimson Tide fans is that it is an assault on the integrity of the school and the south. That isn't the case for me and others who are discussing the Foster issue. There is simply too much defensiveness and tribalism when an Alabama player is under scrutiny. Or another way of looking at it is that by stereotyping the critics as biased toward the school and region it is a way of skirting the issue that is under discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, JohnC said: Alabama has made tremendous strides in upgrading the university and making it a signature state school with some national and world recognized programs in the medical and science field. The recognition that they are getting in the academic world is well deserved. I have read where some students who have garnered scholarships from Harvard and other Ivy League schools have declined offers and instead decided to pursue their studies at Bama. No question that the University academic profile is on the rise, and deservedly so. However, too often when a Bama player is criticized the reflexive response from some Crimson Tide fans is that it is an assault on the integrity of the school and the south. That isn't the case for me and others who are discussing the Foster issue. There is simply too much defensiveness and tribalism when an Alabama player is under scrutiny. Or another way of looking at it is that by stereotyping the critics as biased toward the school and region it is a way of skirting the issue that is under discussion. Weve tried. I promise we have all tried. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankoElTanko Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, JohnC said: Alabama has made tremendous strides in upgrading the university and making it a signature state school with some national and world recognized programs in the medical and science field. The recognition that they are getting in the academic world is well deserved. I have read where some students who have garnered scholarships from Harvard and other Ivy League schools have declined offers and instead decided to pursue their studies at Bama. No question that the University academic profile is on the rise, and deservedly so. However, too often when a Bama player is criticized the reflexive response from some Crimson Tide fans is that it is an assault on the integrity of the school and the south. That isn't the case for me and others who are discussing the Foster issue. There is simply too much defensiveness and tribalism when an Alabama player is under scrutiny. Or another way of looking at it is that by stereotyping the critics as biased toward the school and region it is a way of skirting the issue that is under discussion. 4 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Weve tried. I promise we have all tried. Thank you, I thought I was crazy for a second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Weve tried. I promise we have all tried. For some people the Civil War never ended. The trench war stage may be over with but not the perpetual guerrilla war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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