Beane's Counterbalance to Missing on Josh Allen: Great Trades, Drafting, and Free Agent Pickups.

[SoTier]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

.....we could always go back to the "good 'ol days" of letting misfits, unqualifieds and "over the hill gang members" run the show and keep churning the turnstile.....probably could duplicate the "17 year run"......McBeane, McD & Company are the best we've had at OBD since Polian.......

 

How do we know this?  Because the Bills got lucky last year and made the playoffs?    They've been 9-7 numerous times before.  They failed to be competive against the Patriots, losing the first game 23-3 and the second one 37-16.  In case you don't remember, that's 1 TD in 8 quarters.  They also got stomped by the offensive powerhouse Saints and the defensive powerhouse Chargers.  They caught Atlanta napping early in the season and Indy shocked by a damned blizzard late.  They smacked QB-less Miami twice.  Then they got an absolute gift from the Bengals in the closing seconds of the final game.   I'll be impressed when I see fewer games that remind me of 2006-2009.

[ProcessAccepted]

14 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Just to play devils advocate

 

you say Rosen is injury prone and Allen is big strong and durable 

 

but

 

Allen also had a very bad shoulder injury which required a medical red shirt year so it’s not like he’s indestructable 

 

Agreed but like several posters have pointed out concussions are not good. Once you have one the likelihood of subsequent concussions increases dramatically. I'm happy that we're gambling on a guy with a shoulder injury in his past rather than the guy with multiple concussions.

 

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

How do we know this?  Because the Bills got lucky last year and made the playoffs?    They've been 9-7 numerous times before.  They failed to be competive against the Patriots, losing the first game 23-3 and the second one 37-16.  In case you don't remember, that's 1 TD in 8 quarters.  They also got stomped by the offensive powerhouse Saints and the defensive powerhouse Chargers.  They caught Atlanta napping early in the season and Indy shocked by a damned blizzard late.  They smacked QB-less Miami twice.  Then they got an absolute gift from the Bengals in the closing seconds of the final game.   I'll be impressed when I see fewer games that remind me of 2006-2009.

 

Just to make sure that I understand your premise -  whenever anything good happened we just got lucky - Does that sum up your point correctly? 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

How do we know this?  Because the Bills got lucky last year and made the playoffs?    They've been 9-7 numerous times before.  They failed to be competive against the Patriots, losing the first game 23-3 and the second one 37-16.  In case you don't remember, that's 1 TD in 8 quarters.  They also got stomped by the offensive powerhouse Saints and the defensive powerhouse Chargers.  They caught Atlanta napping early in the season and Indy shocked by a damned blizzard late.  They smacked QB-less Miami twice.  Then they got an absolute gift from the Bengals in the closing seconds of the final game.   I'll be impressed when I see fewer games that remind me of 2006-2009.

 

Only twice during the drought actually. 

 

I think it is fine to keep an open mind on how good McDermott and Beane are... but not liking the style of their wins is not a good argument for lumping them in with Jauron who never won more than 7 games in a season. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

14 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

24 days!

 

 

CB, we are sooooo close to half way through the deadzone.  Tick tock to the 3 week mark and the down hill slope of the pre-training camp blues.

[The Wiz]

25 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Well, then, let's extend McDermott and his side-kick Beane right now despite what they may do in the future just because they got the Bills into the playoffs last season ... just like the Bills extended Dick Jauron after the 2008 season because the Bills started that season 5-2 ...

 

Exactly what I said.  Or how about we not base a person performance drafting players based on missing on a QB his first time trying to land one.  

[Augie]

On 7/2/2018 at 9:40 PM, The_Dude said:

 

Would you argue the cause. Justified. Wouldn’t trust him to take another swing. 

 

So, instead of just taking another swing at a QB (which is known to be hit or miss for all teams), you want the owners to take another swing at a new GM, who will want a new coach, who will have a new scheme, which will need a bunch of new players to fit the scheme, which will eat up every draft pick for the next 2-3 years.....to see how THAT turns out?  OH! And they will still need to take a swing at a new QB! 

 

Not much of a plan in my mind. How do I know? Because THAT’S WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING! 

 

 

.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Augie

[The Wiz]

13 hours ago, The_Dude said:

 

Would you argue the cause. Justified. Wouldn’t trust him to take another swing. 

Considering he, MCD and the pegulas were all on board (allegedly) with the pick, I'm fine with him trying again if Allen fails.

 

Also, the thing about Allen that is better IMO is that he is a boom or bust pick.  Either they know they are good with him or they move on from him in 2 season.  It's not the old NFL where you drop 100 million on a contract and are stuck with him if he doesn't work out.

Edited July 3, 2018 by The Wiz

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, The Wiz said:

Considering he, MCD and the pegulas were all on board (allegedly) with the pick, I'm fine with him trying again if Allen fails.

 

What about if the rest of the roster still looks a bit ramshackle in 3 years and Allen has flamed out and say Tre White is the only bona fide star on the team? If we go 5-11, 4-12, 5-11 then what do you do? Let him try again at a QB and again at building the rest of the roster? To me if he has build a decent roster with young talent but not found his QB he gets another shot. If Allen is a stud but the pieces around him still aren't good enough he gets a bit longer to put those pieces on place. If the roster looks sub par and the QB fails he gets fired. 

[nedboy7]

Allen’s performance will define this regime.  Fair or not.  If he is a bust I don’t trust them trading more picks for the next bust. 

[The Wiz]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What about if the rest of the roster still looks a bit ramshackle in 3 years and Allen has flamed out and say Tre White is the only bona fide star on the team? If we go 5-11, 4-12, 5-11 then what do you do? Let him try again at a QB and again at building the rest of the roster? To me if he has build a decent roster with young talent but not found his QB he gets another shot. If Allen is a stud but the pieces around him still aren't good enough he gets a bit longer to put those pieces on place. If the roster looks sub par and the QB fails he gets fired. 

That's fair.  I'm basing it off of either allen succeeds or he doesn't.  Not what happens with the rest of the team.  I will say that he has already added pieces to the team that have made it better than it was the year prior so he at least looks like he is moving the team in the right direction.  Most thought our biggest weakness was going to be our secondary and he fixed that before the season started.

 

Also I don't think Allen's success is going to be determined by who drafted him but by who develops him.  That's where most of my concern comes.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, The Wiz said:

That's fair.  I'm basing it off of either allen succeeds or he doesn't.  Not what happens with the rest of the team.  I will say that he has already added pieces to the team that have made it better than it was the year prior so he at least looks like he is moving the team in the right direction.  Most thought our biggest weakness was going to be our secondary and he fixed that before the season started.

 

Also I don't think Allen's success is going to be determined by who drafted him but by who develops him.  That's where most of my concern comes.

 

Actually McDermott was responsible for 3/4s of the secondary.  Beane was only here for the addition of Gaines.  I loved the McDermott hire by the way and once we had hired him then it had to be Beane because I wanted a HC and GM who were totally aligned for once.  So I am positive and optimistic.  I don't love the Allen pick but am happy to be proved wrong.  I am just being realistic about the way the NFL is.  He either has to hit on the QB or hit on the rest of his roster to give him a chance to win enough games to keep his job and get a second crack at finding the Franchise guy. 

 

If the Bills are bad in 2018 coaching and personnel jobs are not really on the line... if they are still bad in 2019 then there will be pressure and if they are bad three years running both McDermott and Beane will be out. I hope that doesn't happen because I like both guys, but ultimately it is about wins and losses.  

[The Wiz]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Actually McDermott was responsible for 3/4s of the secondary.  Beane was only here for the addition of Gaines.  I loved the McDermott hire by the way and once we had hired him then it had to be Beane because I wanted a HC and GM who were totally aligned for once.  So I am positive and optimistic.  I don't love the Allen pick but am happy to be proved wrong.  I am just being realistic about the way the NFL is.  He either has to hit on the QB or hit on the rest of his roster to give him a chance to win enough games to keep his job and get a second crack at finding the Franchise guy. 

 

If the Bills are bad in 2018 coaching and personnel jobs are not really on the line... if they are still bad in 2019 then there will be pressure and if they are bad three years running both McDermott and Beane will be out. I hope that doesn't happen because I like both guys, but ultimately it is about wins and losses.  

Fair enough on the secondary.  I think the moves beane has been making is part of a plan to get there team in a good place for 2019.  Freeing up cap and saving future picks this year instead of giving them up to move up further than 7 was a good indication of that.

 

Also getting rid of players that don't fit the team first mentality.

[The_Dude]

2 hours ago, Epstein's Mother said:

 

Like Tyrod Taylor good or Tom Brady good?

 

Tyrod is awful. 

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, The_Dude said:

 

The revisionist history around here. 

 

Talk yourself into whatever you wanna talk yourself into man. 

What exactly is revisionist?

 

Please explain

[kota]

I seriously doubt that hte coach or GM will be going anywhere for 10 years.  Pegulas have bought in as they should.

[26CornerBlitz]

16 minutes ago, kota said:

I seriously doubt that hte coach or GM will be going anywhere for 10 years.  Pegulas have bought in as they should.

 

Ten years?  They haven't proven anything thus far to inspire that kind of confidence along with that long reign. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[BillsfanAZ]

I think Beanes time as GM for the Bills is linked to Allen. It will be 2 or 3 yrs before a fair assessment can be made of Allen. At that time Beane will be at a point where if the team is not performing then his time as GM may be over. That being said, succcess for Allen will not be just on Allen alone. The right coaching, system, and players around him will be big factors in how successful he will be. When it comes to reading defenses and making the right throws on time with accuracy will be on Allen. 

[The_Dude]

14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

What exactly is revisionist?

 

Please explain

 

Josh Allen was largely identified by the draft gurus as the guy with the biggest bust potential. There were a solid 3-4 draft experts in his corner, but let’s not pretend that he was highly thought of. He was NOT talked about as being safe. Allen was not a safe pick. He has potential and could be great, but he was largely considered to be the worst of the big-4 coming out. To spin it any other way only a couple of months later is ridiculous. 

[C.Biscuit97]

58 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Fair enough on the secondary.  I think the moves beane has been making is part of a plan to get there team in a good place for 2019.  Freeing up cap and saving future picks this year instead of giving them up to move up further than 7 was a good indication of that.

 

Also getting rid of players that don't fit the team first mentality.

Funny that the majority of those guys who didn’t fit the “team first” mentality went to the playoffs and one won a SB.

 

This whole BS character culture is overblown.  It’s also funny that we just signed a bunch of guys who got popped for PEDs but I guess they fit the culture.

[John from Riverside]

12 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

Josh Allen was largely identified by the draft gurus as the guy with the biggest bust potential. There were a solid 3-4 draft experts in his corner, but let’s not pretend that he was highly thought of. He was NOT talked about as being safe. Allen was not a safe pick. He has potential and could be great, but he was largely considered to be the worst of the big-4 coming out. To spin it any other way only a couple of months later is ridiculous. 

Hmmmm

2 of these QBs were drafted before we could pick at 7.   If you ask me the bills would have taken Sam Darnold if he was on the board...he wasnt.

 

but

 

Does that really matter?   This was the best QB draft to come along in some time.   if Josh Allen was in LAST year's draft he would have went even higher.

 

and

 

Our choices if we were going to select a QB now were Josh Allen or Josh Rosen (who I could care less about attitude he is in fact concussion prone and runs right into hits when in the pocket.

 

I think Beane deserves credit for taking the swing.....it is even sweeter because we didnt have to give up future draft capital to do it.