Underrated aspect of McBeane Tenure: Managing the Cap

[Adam727]

I'm conflicted on the job Beane has done with the salary cap so far.  He's definitely not afraid to make big moves and move on from players.  And he took us from salary cap hell to a great forward-looking salary cap situation in just one year.  So he deserves kudos for that.  But he did it by stripping the team of a LOT of talent.  

 

Looking strictly at the moves he's made so far, I think Watkins makes sense since they weren't going to pay him.  I'm not sure that Star @ $10mil is better than Dareus @ ~$10mil (the amount per year we were able to shed on Dareus's contract after eating the dead money either way) but it sounds like Star will buy into the process better so i'm willing to wait and see.  I don't think Chris Ivory was a better use of cap dollars this year than EJ Gaines, and I didn't think Mike Tolbert was a better use of salary cap $$ than Gilislee last year.  Hyde & Poyer both look like steals but I don't remember if they were Beane or Whaley.  

 

My biggest concern so far is I don't like all the players in their early 20s that were let go (Darby, Watkins, Dareus, Seymour, Ragland, etc) where we used their cap dollars to sign players in their early to mid 30s instead.  I think a team that is rebuilding should be trying to get younger, not older.  And I could see that creating holes on the roster just when the team is *hopefully* getting good.  

 

It's an interesting topic but my personal opinion is we're a year or two away from having a sense of whether or not Beane is good at managing the cap or not.  i think we'll have a pretty good idea after 2019 FA.  

[3rdand12]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Easy to be good with the cap when you are in the clearing out phase. The challenge of Beane as a cap manager will come next offseason when they are trying to add talent to build a genuinely contending football team. The only relative "name" free agents they have brought in over two offseasons are Micah Hyde (good contract) and Star (slightly overpaid). 

I am going to suggest Bills are truly going to stay consistent in building through the draft. Its the best way to team build from a financial stand point and the best way to keep a fresh rotation of prospects up and coming.
I might also guess that because they have to spend that money to comply , they will still be overly cautious about contracts for now.

   Why did Star L just get a huge vote of Confidence Via  Front Office and Coach with that contract ? They feel he is a long term worthwhile investment. Maybe we measure Beanes FA acumen against this ?

These guys want to play on a budget for good couple years is my feeling.

[Albany,n.y.]

3 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Poyer and Hyde are basically our only remaining quality adds, and those are both Whaley finds. The guy made his living in pro personnel. 

Whaley had little or nothing to do with finding Poyer.  The man who pushed hardest was Bobby Babich, the Bills safeties coach: https://buffalonews.com/2017/09/22/inside-bills-jordan-poyer-got-buffalo-came/

 

“Yes! Absolutely,” Bills assistant defensive backs coach Bobby Babich says when asked whether he thought Poyer would be this good, this fast with a new team. “People don’t understand the amount of work that Jordan Poyer puts in and the time he spends. He’s absolutely relentless.”

Babich is the main reason Poyer is in Buffalo. Having spent two-plus years with him in Cleveland, he saw firsthand a star in the making. Poyer just needed the right opportunity, Babich believed, and he would take the NFL by storm.

That’s why, with the Bills needing help at safety as free agency approached this past March, Babich campaigned hard for Poyer.

“I brought his name up to all the people who are above me and said, ‘hey, this is a guy we need to take a look at,’ ” Babich said. “Everybody that was involved in the decision looked at the tape that he did have, listened to my input, and we ended up with Jordan.”

Even as a 34-year-old assistant DBs coach, Babich said there was “zero hesitation” on his part to push so hard for his bosses to sign Poyer.

 

 

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

This is sarcasm right?  

 

In 1.1 seasons they've completely changed the losing culture with character players and went to the playoffs.  Most players they brought in played well.  They've proven a lot in a short time and deserve more than you saying nothings happened let me wait and see if anything does.  

i guess our friend is sincere.

Feel the same really. Beane is very good when the budget is quite limited. ( inherited btw)
 When all these stacks of cash are available for FA and contract extensions ?

 Thats the proof in the pudding moment for me

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

He was smart to take all the hits now, when it was affordable to do so. I think most successful teams have an idea of cap spending by position and Beane will stay with that structure as well as possible. You expect to pay a lot for tackles, QB's , WR and pass rushers... I don't think he likes paying a RB as much as McCoy gets but he's a special player and we can afford him. We'll have great flexibility in the next few years and will have the resources to make the big move if we are 1 player away.

yep : )

1 hour ago, cage said:

 

....uh and I stand corrected on that.... when you think back on it, its amazing that they let Whaley run most of the off-season last year; free agency and draft, when they were intending to can him.

He provided the list. He and McD picked the players

[vorpma]

33 minutes ago, Adam727 said:

I'm conflicted on the job Beane has done with the salary cap so far.  He's definitely not afraid to make big moves and move on from players.  And he took us from salary cap hell to a great forward-looking salary cap situation in just one year.  So he deserves kudos for that.  But he did it by stripping the team of a LOT of talent.  

 

Looking strictly at the moves he's made so far, I think Watkins makes sense since they weren't going to pay him.  I'm not sure that Star @ $10mil is better than Dareus @ ~$10mil (the amount per year we were able to shed on Dareus's contract after eating the dead money either way) but it sounds like Star will buy into the process better so i'm willing to wait and see.  I don't think Chris Ivory was a better use of cap dollars this year than EJ Gaines, and I didn't think Mike Tolbert was a better use of salary cap $$ than Gilislee last year.  Hyde & Poyer both look like steals but I don't remember if they were Beane or Whaley.  

 

My biggest concern so far is I don't like all the players in their early 20s that were let go (Darby, Watkins, Dareus, Seymour, Ragland, etc) where we used their cap dollars to sign players in their early to mid 30s instead.  I think a team that is rebuilding should be trying to get younger, not older.  And I could see that creating holes on the roster just when the team is *hopefully* getting good.  

 

It's an interesting topic but my personal opinion is we're a year or two away from having a sense of whether or not Beane is good at managing the cap or not.  i think we'll have a pretty good idea after 2019 FA.  

Good post Adam727

[3rdand12]

8 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Whaley had little or nothing to do with finding Poyer.  The man who pushed hardest was Bobby Babich, the Bills safeties coach: https://buffalonews.com/2017/09/22/inside-bills-jordan-poyer-got-buffalo-came/

 

“Yes! Absolutely,” Bills assistant defensive backs coach Bobby Babich says when asked whether he thought Poyer would be this good, this fast with a new team. “People don’t understand the amount of work that Jordan Poyer puts in and the time he spends. He’s absolutely relentless.”

Babich is the main reason Poyer is in Buffalo. Having spent two-plus years with him in Cleveland, he saw firsthand a star in the making. Poyer just needed the right opportunity, Babich believed, and he would take the NFL by storm.

That’s why, with the Bills needing help at safety as free agency approached this past March, Babich campaigned hard for Poyer.

“I brought his name up to all the people who are above me and said, ‘hey, this is a guy we need to take a look at,’ ” Babich said. “Everybody that was involved in the decision looked at the tape that he did have, listened to my input, and we ended up with Jordan.”

Even as a 34-year-old assistant DBs coach, Babich said there was “zero hesitation” on his part to push so hard for his bosses to sign Poyer.

 

 

Thank you !!

[US Egg]

6 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

This is sarcasm right?  

 

In 1.1 seasons they've completely changed the losing culture with character players and went to the playoffs.  Most players they brought in played well.  They've proven a lot in a short time and deserve more than you saying nothings happened let me wait and see if anything does.  

 

1.1 seasons is way too premature to make an absolute accurate assessment of a rookie GM & HC in the NFL.

 

......but hey, if that's good enough for you, enjoy it.

Edited June 30, 2018 by I am the egg man

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

16 hours ago, liverpoolkev said:

is this mcbeane relative......stop with the smoke he hasn't  picked up anyone of substance unless you want to include our TE I mean wr Benjamin …..its easy to shed salary its hard to pick up talent …..unless you think giving chubby from carolina  50 mill for nothing, since he cant rush the passer, was a good thing …….they will both be fired in two years when their qb becomes another billy joe Hobert or jp losman    

 

For the sake or argument, assuming Allen does become another JP, if TP fires them for that, then there's really no hope for them as owners as the likelihood of finding a real good franchise QB is about 30%.  As long as the rest of the team shows improvement, keep them and try again. 

 

I do think too that deep down TP does seem to be the patient type while he has made some fast hires and fires, there were some extenuating circumstances around them.

[vorpma]

34 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

For the sake or argument, assuming Allen does become another JP, if TP fires them for that, then there's really no hope for them as owners as the likelihood of finding a real good franchise QB is about 30%.  As long as the rest of the team shows improvement, keep them and try again. 

 

I do think too that deep down TP does seem to be the patient type while he has made some fast hires and fires, there were some extenuating circumstances around them.

A definite common sense approach, good post!

[Augie]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’ve been tougher on McDermott than most but I give the guy his due with finding d backs.  It’s definitely his talent.

 

here’s a crazy fact: good players cost money.  The Bills don’t have many good players right now.  Say if somehow Harrison Phillips (who I love) reaches the level Dareus did in 2014, he’s going to cost a lot of money.  So is Tre White.  So is Edmunds.

 

i get we made the playoffs for the first time in forever.  Personally, I think we just got lucky with Dick Jauron football.  It’s great but this roster isn’t very good.  I feel like trust the process is a way to buy yourself a lot of time when you aren’t very good.  

 

And while we overthink this, it basically all comes down to Allen.  I’m not a big fan of the pick,  but if turns into a franchise qb, the Bills will be in a great shape with a cheap qb for a few years.  If not, they are both getting fired.

 

I had my “Allen reservations” as well, but now he’s our guy so I’m hoping for the best. Regardless, if all continues on this trajectory, I hope they get another shot at a second QB if Allen doesn’t pan out. Don’t toss out the whole regime because they flipped a coin and lost. That means we start all over again, which is a MESS, and you lose more often than not when picking a QB. I pray it’s a moot point.

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I had my “Allen reservations” as well, but now he’s our guy so I’m hoping for the best. Regardless, if all continues on this trajectory, I hope they get another shot at a second QB if Allen doesn’t pan out. Don’t toss out the whole regime because they flipped a coin and lost. That means we start all over again, which is a MESS, and you lose more often than not when picking a QB. I pray it’s a moot point.

Now that we have picked Josh Allen I am hoping the team gets a bit bullish and take their time developing him instead of cutting bait if they dont have immediate results......as long as he shows progression and flashes of great.......this is the year we aquired the qb....next year......surround him with offensive talent

[ndirish1978]

19 hours ago, liverpoolkev said:

is this mcbeane relative......stop with the smoke he hasn't  picked up anyone of substance unless you want to include our TE I mean wr Benjamin …..its easy to shed salary its hard to pick up talent …..unless you think giving chubby from carolina  50 mill for nothing, since he cant rush the passer, was a good thing …….they will both be fired in two years when their qb becomes another billy joe Hobert or jp losman    

 

Open mouth, insert foot

 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, klos63 said:

He was smart to take all the hits now, when it was affordable to do so. I think most successful teams have an idea of cap spending by position and Beane will stay with that structure as well as possible. You expect to pay a lot for tackles, QB's , WR and pass rushers... I don't think he likes paying a RB as much as McCoy gets but he's a special player and we can afford him. We'll have great flexibility in the next few years and will have the resources to make the big move if we are 1 player away.

 

On the running back thing.... he comes for an organisation that from DeAngelo Williams, to Jonathan Stewart, to Christian McCaffrey has always invested high level resource (cap an picks) at the position during Beane's run there. I am not as fast as to say "he would like a cheaper running back." 

 

I actually did an analysis I posted way back when Beane joined of where Carolina spent resource during his time as Assistant GM and in the front office more generally. There were some interesting findings - for example center was the position they most seemed to value on the o-line. 

 

 

[JerseyBills]

20 hours ago, brianthomas said:

Wow, if you're so down on the Bills why even be here lol? Beane hasnt brought in anyone of substance? Do we really need to list all the players? Perhaps doing a google search for our team roster might help, since in the short time he's been here our whole roster has turned over. All while shedding the past bloated contracts & crafting a talented enough roster to here's where i cough... to where we MAKE THE PLAYOFFS!

 

And yeah 50 mil for Star is alot of money, especially when he's not a flashy pass rusher to put up a lot of sacks. But what he will do is occupy the opponents offensive line, allowing our new mobile linebacking crew to go ham. We were spending more on Dareus & dude wasnt even there, so for me its an upgrade. As far as JP or BJH, Josh Allen doesnt appear to be anything like those guys, but from what it sounds like you'll be rooting for him to.

 

I know it was a long drought but so far so good with McBeane & Co. Sure we have a ways to go but i think they've done more positive things than negative. And considering where our franchise has been, that was no easy task. I for one think theres reason to be optimistic. So GO BILLS!

I'm very optimistic . I think McBeane are going to be here a longgg time , i get the feeling they have a very clear vision for success and are very precise in their aqusitions. 

McDermott knows Star and like you said,he might not put up flashy numbers but he's an essential part of this defense. Mainly taking up blockers , making the dline and LB jobs much easier , but McD knows his character and for them to throw that kind of money at him, I am confident he will be a very important piece to this defense.

I think the roster won't be fully set til this time next year but we improved overall on last year , where we had a legit chance of winning 14/17 games. I personally attribute many of those losses to tentative Taylor... Trust the process , what reason do you have not too?

[Bing Bong]

I've fallen in love with every regime's early moves that I've learned not to get too close to my GF and have my heart broken at her incompetence and firing. But this GF gave me something I've never experienced, a playoff game. She may be a keeper, but I'm still not going to get excited about her cap superiority.

[stinky finger]

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’ve been tougher on McDermott than most but I give the guy his due with finding d backs.  It’s definitely his talent.

 

here’s a crazy fact: good players cost money.  The Bills don’t have many good players right now.  Say if somehow Harrison Phillips (who I love) reaches the level Dareus did in 2014, he’s going to cost a lot of money.  So is Tre White.  So is Edmunds.

 

i get we made the playoffs for the first time in forever.  Personally, I think we just got lucky with Dick Jauron football.  It’s great but this roster isn’t very good.  I feel like trust the process is a way to buy yourself a lot of time when you aren’t very good.  

 

And while we overthink this, it basically all comes down to Allen.  I’m not a big fan of the pick,  but if turns into a franchise qb, the Bills will be in a great shape with a cheap qb for a few years.  If not, they are both getting fired.

 

Hey - here's an idea. Since finding a good QB really is based on a ton of luck, how about we keep them in place and give them another roll of the dice? They've done just fine thus far and well, they did make the playoffs. 

 

Oh - and that's in the event Allen doesn't pan out. 

 

 

[Bing Bong]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

On the running back thing.... he comes for an organisation that from DeAngelo Williams, to Jonathan Stewart, to Christian McCaffrey has always invested high level resource (cap an picks) at the position during Beane's run there. I am not as fast as to say "he would like a cheaper running back." 

 

I actually did an analysis I posted way back when Beane joined of where Carolina spent resource during his time as Assistant GM and in the front office more generally. There were some interesting findings - for example center was the position they most seemed to value on the o-line. 

 

 

well he and Gettleman arrived after signing Williams and Stewart, the tandem let Williams go and restructured Stewart, and Beane left before McCaffrey. Outside of that don't think the organization has anything to do with us.

Edited July 1, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

well he and Gettleman arrived after signing Williams and Stewart, the tandem let Williams go and restructured Stewart, and Beane left before McCaffrey. Outside of that don't think the organization has anything to do with us.

 

Except none of that is true. Beane was with the Panthers (albeit in a junior role) when they drafted Williams and he was Director of Football Ops by the time they drafted JStew. They re-signed both to big deals while he was there, and he was still Assistant GM when they drafted McCaffrey. Yes - he was also there when they released Williams... but the restructure of Stewart actually added money to his deal and it was a way of creating cap space to take the dead money hit on Williams. It actually led to JStew being a top 5 salaried back for 3 years in a row (he has never been a top 5 talent). 

 

I am not saying Beane made all those decisions. Obviously he wasn't the trigger man. But he grew up as a personnel guy and a junior exec with a team that organisationally has valued the running back position over the past decade and a half. Whether that has any bearing at all on his personal view on positional value is to be seen. But I think fans just immediately presume he doesn't value the running back position because in many cases they don't think he should. Nothing he has said here support that position at all and it is reasonable given the culture of the organisation he grew up in to suspect that he might place more value on the position than fans on a message board. 

 

[MJS]

On 6/29/2018 at 9:12 PM, liverpoolkev said:

is this mcbeane relative......stop with the smoke he hasn't  picked up anyone of substance unless you want to include our TE I mean wr Benjamin …..its easy to shed salary its hard to pick up talent …..unless you think giving chubby from carolina  50 mill for nothing, since he cant rush the passer, was a good thing …….they will both be fired in two years when their qb becomes another billy joe Hobert or jp losman    

 

Sounds like we should hire you to run things. You sound like an expert.

[3rdand12]

7 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Sounds like we should hire you to run things. You sound like an expert.

Perhaps he was running things for the last decade or so?