Lurker Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: I'm paid to be the Bills' biggest critic. No problem there. Criticism, if done well, is tremendously interesting and entertaining. But don't phone it in and expect the reader to eat it up, regardless of how it tastes. Boring and predictable is boring and predictable, whether its homer-ism (Murph) or angry old man (Sully). The BN appears to have data suggesting that readership was being affected by Sully's continued employment. I have no doubt that was indeed the case... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, Lurker said: No problem there. Criticism, if done well, is tremendously interesting and entertaining. But don't phone it in and expect the reader to eat it up, regardless of how it tastes. Boring and predictable is boring and predictable, whether its homer-ism (Murph) or angry old man (Sully). The BN appears to have data suggesting that readership was being affected by Sully's continued employment. I have no doubt that was indeed the case... The readers were "eating it up" for years. And this data? What is it? The Buffalo Rumblings article says only this: "A consulting firm had taken a survey and determined a number of people - Sullivan claims 200 of the respondents - would never subscribe to The Buffalo News if he and Gleason stayed on as columnists." Well, he's gone and STILL pretty much everyone will never subscribe to the Blitz. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 He wasn't paid to be a critic. He was paid to write a sports column and analyze, not just criticize. 5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: The readers were "eating it up" for years. And this data? What is it? The Buffalo Rumblings article says only this: "A consulting firm had taken a survey and determined a number of people - Sullivan claims 200 of the respondents - would never subscribe to The Buffalo News if he and Gleason stayed on as columnists." Well, he's gone and STILL pretty much everyone will never subscribe to the Blitz. There is a difference between subscribing to the News and paying extra for the Blitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: He wasn't paid to be a critic. He was paid to write a sports column and analyze, not just criticize. There is a difference between subscribing to the News and paying extra for the Blitz. Clearly, the move by management is in view of their online product, no people getting the paper at home. And if he wasn't doing exactly what they wanted him to do, they would have taken away his column long ago---like during any of those previous 40 Q's when they were in the black. The BN wa happy to have Jerry as one of their most read columnists. Until they decided to go all in on this disastrous online content venture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: And this data? What is it? The Buffalo Rumblings article says only this: "A consulting firm had taken a survey and determined a number of people - Sullivan claims 200 of the respondents - would never subscribe to The Buffalo News if he and Gleason stayed on as columnists." Well, he's gone and STILL pretty much everyone will never subscribe to the Blitz. Market research surveys generally have samples of 400 to 800 respondents. If 200 said they'd never subscribe to the Buffalo News (not the Blitz, the newspaper itself) because of Sully and the Buckster, that's HUUUUUUUGE.... TV shows get cancelled. Magazines go out of print. Movie sequels bomb. All because they get stale and boring. Columnists who retire in place are no different and the POV that Sully and Gleason were important reasons why people shelled out money for the newspaper is laughable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: And if he wasn't doing exactly what they wanted him to do, they would have taken away his column long ago---like during any of those previous 40 Q's when they were in the black. Per the Guild contract. http://www.buffaloguild.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/2016-Guild-Contract-.pdf Article 6—Dismissals to Reduce the Force 1. The News is responsible for controlling the size of its working force. Any dismissal to reduce the force will be only for economic reasons to remedy the stability of the newspaper. [i.e., the BN's hands were tied during those previous quarters when they were in the black] 2. All dismissals that may be necessary to reduce the force will be made in each job classification in reverse order of bargaining unit seniority. However, any employee dismissed from their classification may use their bargaining unit seniority to displace a less senior employee in another classification or group, which provides an equal or less rate of pay, if they are competent and able to perform the duties of such junior employee and if bumped to a job in the same group they will retain the same rate of pay and, if in a lower rated group, they will receive the maximum salary of that group or their present salary, whichever is less. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Except that there is an "ignore" function (pretty much works like a block). On a web browser, hover the mouse over the user's name. You will see 3 options, "message" "ignore user" and "find content". Just choose the middle road. You're welcome Except it does not always work. I frequently see blocked users' content and NOT quoted comment. See same issue with another website I visit with same software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danc Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 9 hours ago, corta765 said: 100%. I had no problem with criticizing the team and questioning the decision making. As a fan I tended to agree with a lot of what was said, I remember especially after the 2016 Steeler game everyone just saying can Rex and Whaley and restart the disaster straight up. I thought during that the media actually did a good job to illustrate how out of control the Bills FO was. BUT yea they crossed far too many lines and even with new management they were ready to attack anything remotely wrong. There is fair and balanced reporting with criticism and then chasing the smallest fire the size of a cigarette. Sullivan I think his voice had become dry over the years and he was to opinionated in his own ways, but had he adjusted a bit could've been fire. Bucky Gleason though was a straight up jerk and I was thrilled to see him go. The last time he wrote anything remotely fair to the Sabres was tens years plus. And yea as a owner I would restrict access if we were constantly harnessed at every step for not taking the wisdom of two reporters from TBN. I also agree 100%. They went over the line so many times that I started ignoring them a couple years ago. Then when BN Blitz came along I refused to pay for Jerry and Bucky. I'm sure I was not the only one and believe the BN took notice. I'm anxious to see how the new writers are and I will reevaluate whether or not to get BN Blitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 hours ago, Lurker said: Market research surveys generally have samples of 400 to 800 respondents. If 200 said they'd never subscribe to the Buffalo News (not the Blitz, the newspaper itself) because of Sully and the Buckster, that's HUUUUUUUGE.... TV shows get cancelled. Magazines go out of print. Movie sequels bomb. All because they get stale and boring. Columnists who retire in place are no different and the POV that Sully and Gleason were important reasons why people shelled out money for the newspaper is laughable... It would be laughable....if I had made such an argument. What I said was the Sullivan by accounts from those at the BN itself, was one of the most widely read columnists. The 200 number came from Sullivan. 3 hours ago, Lurker said: Per the Guild contract. http://www.buffaloguild.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/2016-Guild-Contract-.pdf Article 6—Dismissals to Reduce the Force 1. The News is responsible for controlling the size of its working force. Any dismissal to reduce the force will be only for economic reasons to remedy the stability of the newspaper. [i.e., the BN's hands were tied during those previous quarters when they were in the black] 2. All dismissals that may be necessary to reduce the force will be made in each job classification in reverse order of bargaining unit seniority. However, any employee dismissed from their classification may use their bargaining unit seniority to displace a less senior employee in another classification or group, which provides an equal or less rate of pay, if they are competent and able to perform the duties of such junior employee and if bumped to a job in the same group they will retain the same rate of pay and, if in a lower rated group, they will receive the maximum salary of that group or their present salary, whichever is less. 1. Any employee can be fired individually without being part of a "reduction of the workforce". So I'm not sure how that's responsive to my comment. If Sullivan was bad for business then he would have been let go---or at least would have had his column taken away--long ago. 2. None of these staffers were dismissed--they all took buyouts and left voluntarily, so neither of these contract citations are relevant here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: It would be laughable....if I had made such an argument. What I said was the Sullivan by accounts from those at the BN itself, was one of the most widely read columnists. 1. Any employee can be fired individually without being part of a "reduction of the workforce". Bob DiCesare made that 'widely read' statement. He would hardly be privy to the readership metrics management would have. And even if Sully was indeed widely read, it begs the question, "compared to what" and "is his readership declining." If fewer people were reading him, it may have motivated management to get out in front of that trend. As to point 2, Guild members can only fired for cause in non-economic situations, according to their labor contract. While 'cause' is not spelled out, it very likely does not mean writing style or attitude. Any attempt to drop Sully simply because management didn't like his style or wanted to go in another direction would have been grieved by the Guild. That can be messy and expensive--sort of like firing a tenured public school teacher in New York State. The quarterly loss removed some of that protection, allowing management to nudge him out the door via his opting to take the buyout... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Lurker said: Bob DiCesare made that 'widely read' statement. He would hardly be privy to the readership metrics management would have. And even if Sully was indeed widely read, it begs the question, "compared to what" and "is his readership declining." If fewer people were reading him, it may have motivated management to get out in front of that trend. As to point 2, Guild members can only fired for cause in non-economic situations, according to their labor contract. While 'cause' is not spelled out, it very likely does not mean writing style or attitude. Any attempt to drop Sully simply because management didn't like his style or wanted to go in another direction would have been grieved by the Guild. That can be messy and expensive--sort of like firing a tenured public school teacher in New York State. The quarterly loss removed some of that protection, allowing management to nudge him out the door via his opting to take the buyout... You don't think a long time deputy editor would have any idea who his most widely read columnists were? That's pretty ridiculous. As for your second point, again, it's meaningless because they Sullivan wasn't fired. They took away his column and offered a spot as a features writer.....or he could leave with a little extra money in his pocket. It was exactly "attempt to drop Sully simply because management didn't like his style or wanted to go in another direction"--in fact, that's the entire point of this discussion, it's not even debatable that's what they did. So this would qualify as "any" such attempt. It's nothing like firing a tenured teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Getty Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 And this is why they failed. How can you write for the hometown newspaper and have an entire staff that never had a breaking story on either team? It is inexcusable and for this reason alone they all deserved to get the axe. How many times do you see Cleveland journalist breaking a story? (all of the time). The sports reporters need to own up to the fact that they simply were not good at their job. Good riddance and stop crying on your way out the door! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I have never seen the Cleavland news so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) has the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle done any better ? a big leak was plugged with the departure of russ brandon Edited June 26, 2018 by papazoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Vic will break stories but that is it. The group that was shown the door was so irrationally anti home team that they had no chance of getting a heads up . John Warwow seems to be the go to guy when the team wants to get info out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 2 hours ago, Estelle Getty said: And this is why they failed. How can you write for the hometown newspaper and have an entire staff that never had a breaking story on either team? It is inexcusable and for this reason alone they all deserved to get the axe. How many times do you see Cleveland journalist breaking a story? (all of the time). The sports reporters need to own up to the fact that they simply were not good at their job. Good riddance and stop crying on your way out the door! This is true. When I read a story the first thing that I look for is who broke it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 it is hard to find fault with the papers point of view. Sullivan in particular would find or pivot to negativity on every occasion. Sometimes as a fan you just want to enjoy the moment. Even if the big picture maybe cloudy. Every now and than it is nice to revel in a victory without some pointing out all of the negatives that still exists. After awhile everything written was negative and than it became personal. The treatment of Whaley in particular was disgraceful. To be honest Sullivan should have been shown the door after his 20 year to last question to Cam at the Super bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 hours ago, Estelle Getty said: And this is why they failed. How can you write for the hometown newspaper and have an entire staff that never had a breaking story on either team? It is inexcusable and for this reason alone they all deserved to get the axe. How many times do you see Cleveland journalist breaking a story? (all of the time). The sports reporters need to own up to the fact that they simply were not good at their job. Good riddance and stop crying on your way out the door! Cleveland... ok I don't care about Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 They apparently weren't sleeping with the right people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said: This is true. When I read a story the first thing that I look for is who broke it. Did you know if you want to read a Buffalo News Sports story you have to pay a fee? There's a firewall. Ridiculous!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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