Shaq Lawson on roster bubble

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Maybe you thought that.  Whaley didn't. He knew that (as was being reported at the time) 6 or more teams would pass on Lawson due to his well known shoulder injury which would require surgery not after an NFL season.

 

Then Whaley created this laughable set up:

 

"If something happens, it's going to happen. It's nothing that we're really worried about or we wouldn't take him. We have complete faith in our medical staff and they signed off on him, so we're excited to have him."

 

Then...oooops!--during a "conditioning program" immediately after the draft, "something happened"!  What happened during a routine day in the gym, you ask?...

 

....an "occurrence of the condition"  (gotta love that line).  And presto, oh my God, Shaq will not be able to play through the season after all.  Shocking!!  It's like all those teams that passed on him because of his well known surgically treatable shoulder injury somehow KNEW he would have surgery right after the draft----and therefore chose not to draft huim...

 

Crazy coincidence you would say, right?

 

Well, you may have some inside gouge we lack.  Absent that, my thought was that Whaley got led down the Primrose Path by the team physicians on several occasions, and the Lawson pre-draft physical was one. 

 

Didn't the Bills change out medical staff with the coaching change?

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, you may have some inside gouge we lack.  Absent that, my thought was that Whaley got led down the Primrose Path by the team physicians on several occasions, and the Lawson pre-draft physical was one. 

 

Didn't the Bills change out medical staff with the coaching change?

 

He used the hapless medical staff to back him up.

 

This is the crew that twice passed "Lights Out" Merriweather before he twice quickly went on IR.

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, you may have some inside gouge we lack.  Absent that, my thought was that Whaley got led down the Primrose Path by the team physicians on several occasions, and the Lawson pre-draft physical was one. 

 

Didn't the Bills change out medical staff with the coaching change?

 

 

There’s a very good question to which I don’t know the answer. Anyone? 

 

.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Augie

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

3 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

But he was going to start right off the bus. I recall that comment
 

IMO they expected him to start and play the season.
IMO that was silly considering what was seemingly known by other head Coaches.
Not a fan of Adolphus Washington either. Both heavy Rex influenced picks IMO.

What about Ragland ?

I am sure Whaley was doing his Coaches bidding went it came to draft weekend.
 

 We can only hope both Adolphus and more so Lawson, Shaq , show up big in training camp.

 

Ragland had a very solid season for the Chiefs after McBeane traded him for a hill of beans. 

 

I don't really want to trade Shaq at this point. We'd be selling low on a guy that has a lot of potential (similar to Ragland trade). 

[thebandit27]

10 hours ago, stuvian said:

Old Regime + High Salary = Gone

 

They would have to find a trade partner, because that's the only way they save money against the cap.

 

If they cut him, they actually take an additional $3.2M cap hit this year, whereas a trade will save them $1.3M

[Cripple Creek]

10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He used the hapless medical staff to back him up.

 

This is the crew that twice passed "Lights Out" Merriweather before he twice quickly went on IR.

“Used” strikes me the wrong way at first, but I think that may be as much due to your acerbic history as anything. When I take a minute to think about your post I don’t think you’re saying he “used” the medical staff as much as you’re saying he “used” their passing grade on Lawson to backup his pick.

 

That accurate?

[thebandit27]

10 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Ragland had a very solid season for the Chiefs after McBeane traded him for a hill of beans. 

 

I don't really want to trade Shaq at this point. We'd be selling low on a guy that has a lot of potential (similar to Ragland trade). 

 

In 2017, Ragland had 44 total tackles (31 solo) and 4 TFLs in 10 starts with no sacks, turnovers forced, or passes defensed.

 

I wouldn't call that a solid season, let alone a "very solid" one.

 

Take it a step further and consider that he had 8 solo tackles and 3 TFLs in one game against Buffalo, and another 8 solo tackles and 1 TFL the following week against the Giants, and you're talking about a guy that basically had 2 good back-to-back games in the middle of a season full of nondescript play.

 

EDIT: I should note that I don't say that to knock Rags; a guy his size coming off of an ACL tear has a long way to go.  I simply mean to point out that his 2017 campaign didn't exactly make Beane look foolish.

Edited June 22, 2018 by thebandit27

[Mr. WEO]

38 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

“Used” strikes me the wrong way at first, but I think that may be as much due to your acerbic history as anything. When I take a minute to think about your post I don’t think you’re saying he “used” the medical staff as much as you’re saying he “used” their passing grade on Lawson to backup his pick.

 

That accurate?

 

Pretty much.  But they seemed to have the opposite medical opinion of several other teams that otherwise likely would have drafted Shaq ahead of the Bills.  Their medical opinion certainly meshed with Whaley's overall plan......

[Irv]

I hope all of the hype we have read about a new Shaq attitude is on target.  But he just looks so slow to me.  When he's in the game - it's like he's not even there.  He crushed one dude last year I think in Miami in the backfield.  But besides that, he's been a real snoozer.  First round picks who are good at "setting the edge".  Hmmm.  I don't think he makes it.  Sounds like he gets the fact that he could be out of the league.  Hope he makes it but he really looks like another Whaley failure.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Irv

[Victory Formation]

I think it would be incredibly stupid to give up on him so quick.

[JohnC]

16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Pretty much.  But they seemed to have the opposite medical opinion of several other teams that otherwise likely would have drafted Shaq ahead of the Bills. Their medical opinion certainly meshed with Whaley's overall plan......

As you well know medical opinions on players with an injury history are usually not clear cut. You are probably correct that some teams may have passed on Lawson because of shoulder concerns. On the other hand I'm sure that there were teams that were willing to draft him because their concerns were allayed based on their medical staffs' judgments.  Judging a player with a medical history is not an easy call. The medical staff in Miami didn't clear Brees while the staff in New Orleans did. I'm sure there were dissenting views from the respective organizations. 

 

The book on Lawson isn't complete. Is he going to turn out to be a contributing player for the Bills or end up being dispatched? I don't know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be a solid to good player for us. It that level of play materializes I will be more than happy.  

[buffalostu2]

24 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

I think it would be incredibly stupid to give up on him so quick.

I think you are correct but look what GM we are talking about.

29 minutes ago, Irv said:

I hope all of the hype we have read about a new Shaq attitude is on target.  But he just looks so slow to me.  When he's in the game - it's like he's not even there.  He crushed one dude last year I think in Miami in the backfield.  But besides that, he's been a real snoozer.  First round picks who are good at "setting the edge".  Hmmm.  I don't think he makes it.  Sounds like he gets the fact that he could be out of the league.  Hope he makes it but he really looks like another Whaley failure.

So slow he tied for the team lead in sacks.  Hughes is way faster but usually falls into the close but no cigar territory.   Even though Hughes does get pressure.

[Irv]

2 minutes ago, buffalostu2 said:

I think you are correct but look what GM we are talking about.

So slow he tied for the team lead in sacks.  Hughes is way faster but usually falls into the close but no cigar territory.   Even though Hughes does get pressure.

 

Will he make it?

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

As you well know medical opinions on players with an injury history are usually not clear cut. You are probably correct that some teams may have passed on Lawson because of shoulder concerns. On the other hand I'm sure that there were teams that were willing to draft him because their concerns were allayed based on their medical staffs' judgments.  Judging a player with a medical history is not an easy call. The medical staff in Miami didn't clear Brees while the staff in New Orleans did. I'm sure there were dissenting views from the respective organizations. 

 

The book on Lawson isn't complete. Is he going to turn out to be a contributing player for the Bills or end up being dispatched? I don't know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be a solid to good player for us. It that level of play materializes I will be more than happy.  

 

By accounts, it seems the Bills staff is the only one of half a dozen---which likely be every other team that was considering picking him in the format round.

 

They all passed because they were convinced he would need surgery in before he played.  And they were correct.

 

This isn't one staff vs another, not "to-may-toe" vs "to-mah-toe".    This is all other interested teams vs  Whaley.

 

Anyway, my point is I think he knew too and picked him anyway--probably a lot higher than he had too.  hasn't worked out.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[Mr. WEO]

Can I consult the two other "will Shaq be on the roster?' threads and get back to you on this?

[buffalostu2]

21 minutes ago, Irv said:

 

Will he make it?

I think it is 50/50 he makes it.  50% he makes the team.  50% he gets traded.  0% he gets cut.

[BuffaloRush]

If you look at the depth chart at OTA’s Shaq is probably the 4th DE on the roster behind Hughes, Murphy and Yarborough.  He’s really going to have to work his way on the field.  I can see a Reggie Ragland type trade unless Shaq has a big preseason. 

[JohnC]

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

By accounts, it seems the Bills staff is the only one of half a dozen---which likely be every other team that was considering picking him in the format round.

 

They all passed because they were convinced he would need surgery in before he played.  And they were correct.

 

This isn't one staff vs another, not "to-may-toe" vs "to-mah-toe".    This is all other interested teams vs  Whaley.

 

Anyway, my point is I think he knew too and picked him anyway--probably a lot higher than he had too.  hasn't worked out.

I doubt that Buffalo was the only team that cleared him that was interested in him. You are making an assumption based on what? There is no doubt that some teams bypassed him because of the shoulder issue. But that doesn't mean that every team that had an interest in him wasn't willing to select him at what they believed to be a reasonable spot. 

 

Whether he needed an operation or not doesn't bother me too much. What bothered me more is that it should have been done sooner rather than later. When all is said and done having a medical issue in his rookie year isn't the real issue. The issue is can he be a good player in this league now and in the future. That is what we are going to find out in camp. If he can't play at a contributing level he will be moved. While you have already seemed to have made a conclusive judgment on him I have not. 

[FrankoElTanko]

Yes

 

[Hebert19]

Yes