Greg Gabriel’s Negative Take on Josh Allen and Trumaine Edmunds (April)

[BuffaloRush]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Fair points. Difference is Goff almost threw for 5,000 yards and 43 tds his last year in college.

 

and I guess more of an issue is I don’t trust Daboll or anyone on our staff to develop a qb.  I definitely would be more on board with Allen if we had McVay or Andy Reid.  McVay traded for Sammy his first year.  We drafted a bunch of late round slot wrs.  

 

 

 

Yeah very true.  I have concerns about David Culley who seems to have no track record of developing QB’s and hasn’t been a QB coach for years.   But I really get the impression that Allen is Daboll’s pet project and that he likely lobbied for him in the draft.  That’s definitey a lot of question marks with Daboll.  He’s had limited success in his other stunts as OC, yet he’s highly regarded in NFL circles.  

 

I think that that the Bills upgrade position players next season.  We should see several WR’s and RB’s both in FA and the draft

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

Yeah very true.  I have concerns about David Culley who seems to have no track record of developing QB’s and hasn’t been a QB coach for years.   But I really get the impression that Allen is Daboll’s pet project and that he likely lobbied for him in the draft.  That’s definitey a lot of question marks with Daboll.  He’s had limited success in his other stunts as OC, yet he’s highly regarded in NFL circles.  

 

I think that that the Bills upgrade position players next season.  We should see several WR’s and RB’s both in FA and the draft

Good post.  Honestly, I hate the BS recycling of nfl coaches.  The same guys just keep getting jobs because they are friends with the right people.  

 

Obviously its it’s not all his fault but Daboll’s nfl OC resume is terrible.  McDermott’s first OC was terrible.  There’s a chance we have a defensive coach who doesn’t understand offense. 

[teef]

34 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Wyoming has the 9th ranked defense in all of college football.  They gave up 17.5 points/ game (UCLA was 117th and gave up 36.5 points/ game). I’m going on a limb here but it’s easier to win games with a top 10 defense than a bottom 10 defense.

 

myself, I’m not a fan of making excuses for players picked that high.  Allen wasn’t a great college qb.  It seemed very risky to me to take him as the highest drafted qb in franchise history.  He has a lot to prove.  I want him to be great.  But this type of prospect is in every draft and they rarely translate.

i think this has come up before, but wyoming didn't have 9th ranked defense in all of football.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/2018/team/22

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-yards-per-game

 

[PromoTheRobot]

McDermott and Bean will live or die by their opinions. Greg Gabriel can be wrong and he can just come up with new ones.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

..often wondered about this......as a Buffalo native, maybe he still has an axe to grind with OBD for not interviewing him after the Bears canned him in April 2010.....

 

GM Scouting: Bears Director of College Scouting, Greg Gabriel

0 New, 90 comments

By Brian Galliford Dec 21, 2009, 12:58pm EST

 

The biggest, most important necessity for Buffalo Bills fans right now is catharsis. At the time of this posting, the 2009 version of the Bills are 5-9 and coming off of their most recent embarrassing home loss. The 2000-2009 Buffalo Bills? Yeah, they're 65-93 in the decade, likely to add two more losses to that pile, and about to finish the entire decade without a single playoff appearance.

 

I tried to hold off on the "moving on to the next decade" posts for as long as possible. The season is still being played, after all. But I doubt you'll hold it against me that I'm about to start off our GM search articles here at Buffalo Rumblings. We all want to see things change, and change is coming. Hell, the vast majority of Bills fans would take change from Russ Brandon all the way down to the team's uniforms without a second's hesitation right now.

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2009/12/21/1210881/gm-scouting-bears-director-of

 

[gobillsatthebeach]

Why are people talking about Wyoming's defense?  He played against the other Mountain West teams where defense is...well let's just say defense isn't a "strength". 

 

That said, I can see the multiple opinions. He has a cannon, was a JUCO transfer, without weapons especially in his senior year. Let's hope by the time he starts, he has the weapons, protection, coaching and innate skills that elevate him into a top tier QB....And the D and special teams rule and the Bills win a Superbowl!

 

So many pieces to the puzzle...

Edited June 19, 2018 by gobillsatthebeach

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Fair points. Difference is Goff almost threw for 5,000 yards and 43 tds his last year in college.

 

and I guess more of an issue is I don’t trust Daboll or anyone on our staff to develop a qb.  I definitely would be more on board with Allen if we had McVay or Andy Reid.  McVay traded for Sammy his first year.  We drafted a bunch of late round slot wrs.  

 

 

Hasnt this been covered already?  WHO was Josh Allen throwing to?  Someone has to actually catch the ball?

[C.Biscuit97]

57 minutes ago, gobillsatthebeach said:

Why are people talking about Wyoming's defense?  He played against the other Mountain West teams where defense is...well let's just say defense isn't a "strength". 

 

That said, I can see the multiple opinions. He has a cannon, was a JUCO transfer, without weapons especially in his senior year. Let's hope by the time he starts, he has the weapons, protection, coaching and innate skills that elevate him into a top tier QB....And the D and special teams rule and the Bills win a Superbowl!

 

So many pieces to the puzzle...

People really don’t get how a good defense can help a qb out?  All I hear is how terrible Wyoming was.  Allen had to score 18 points/ game to win (Rosen had to score 37).  Less pressure to score makes life easier for a qb, no?  

[TigerJ]

"Instincts" is a work that gets thrown  around a lot when discussing draft prospects.  I think there could be some confusion with it in view of its broad usage.  When I think of instincts, I think of something that is more or less genetic.  You either have it or you don't and there is nothing you can do to change it.  I think there is probably some of that among NFL players.  Among QBs instinctiveness seems to be connected in some way to anticipation and to the ability to sense pressure.  Aaron Rodgers has it.  EJ Manuel does not.  Tyrod Taylor may have some, but he could stand to have a lot more.    There are things that some people associate with instinct that might not be, however.  I've seen the criticism that Tremaine Edmunds is not instinctive, versus Roquon Smith (who is instinctive).  I have to wonder, however, if some of the perceived deficiency in Tremaine's instinctiveness might be connected to his youth.  Roquon is a full year older and played in a program (Georgia) that is part of the SEC (which is kind of like a farm league for the NFL).  I figure Tremaine is going to bite on a few misdirection plays this year and get faked out occasionally, but I think next year, when he is the age that Roquon Smith is now, he's going to be a pro bowler.

 

As for QBs in the draft, it could be five years before there is a QB in the draft who comes with little or no risk. Buffalo could go through McBeane and an additional GM/coach regime before they have a chance to grab one.  Whether Allen is the right one this year or not we'll have to wait and see, but Baker Mayfield was gone, and I'm glad Beane chose to gamble.

Edited June 19, 2018 by TigerJ

[gobillsatthebeach]

I don't think we're looking at Wyoming's record, rather than the quality of defense that Allen faced at the D1 level. If he shredded lousy D's, then that changes how we look at his completion percentage, accuracy, td/int ratio, etc.. as it relates to the pressures and coverage he faced.

Edited June 19, 2018 by gobillsatthebeach

[C.Biscuit97]

16 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

"Instincts" is a work that gets thrown  around a lot when discussing draft prospects.  I think there could be some confusion with it in view of its broad usage.  When I think of instincts, I think of something that is more or less genetic.  You either have it or you don't and there is nothing you can do to change it.  I think there is probably some of that among NFL players.  Among QBs instinctiveness seems to be connected in some way to anticipation and to the ability to sense pressure.  Aaron Rodgers has it.  EJ Manuel does not.  Tyrod Taylor may have some, but he could stand to have a lot more.    There are things that some people associate with instinct that might not be, however.  I've seen the criticism that Tremaine Edmunds is not instinctive, versus Roquon Smith (who is instinctive).  I have to wonder, however, if some of the perceived deficiency in Tremaine's instinctiveness might be connected to his youth.  Roquon is a full year older and played in a program (Georgia) that is part of the SEC (which is kind of like a farm league for the NFL).  I figure Tremaine is going to bite on a few misdirection plays this year and get faked out occasionally, but I think next year, when he is the age that Roquon Smith is now, he's going to be a pro bowler.

 

As for QBs in the draft, it could be five years before there is a QB in the draft who comes with little or no risk. Buffalo could go through McBeane and an additional GM/coach regime before they have a chance to grab one.  Whether Allen is the right one this year or not we'll have to wait and see, but Baker Mayfield was gone, and I'm glad Beane chose to gamble.

I think it’s way too simple to say Rodgers had instincts.  He sat behind a HOF qb for 3 years.  If he played and struggled as a rookie, like most qbs, ripple would have given up on him after a season like they do with most qbs.

 

facr is, most fans are patient enough to truly go through the process of developing a qb.  Of course with how much the rules help qbs now, it makes the transition easier than ever.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Wyoming had 5 first or second team choices for the All MWC offense in 2016.  Josh Allen  was the only one of them who returned for 2017.  They went from 207 to 109 ypg rushing and 4.6 to 3.2 ypc.   I think his 2017 targets caught the ball well enough but offered little in terms of YAC.  There was little going on for the Wyoming offfense that would boost Allen's production and probably left him facing an inordinate amount of 3rd and long situations.

[26CornerBlitz]

Trumaine Johnson + Tremaine Edmunds  = Trumaine Edmunds  New Math.

[Fadingpain]

Gabriels' view of Allen is nothing unusual or unique;  I agree with what he is saying, as the OP reports it.  Allen has major footwork issues, accuracy issues, and his collegiate completion % is bad.  He is a huge risk and the fate of McBeane may well be tied to how well he does. 

 

It is also not unusual to suggest all the big name QBs from this year's draft may not be successful in the NFL.

 

Every draft/scouting expert leading up to the draft pretty much indicated that each QB is flawed, just in different ways.

 

The question is to what degree and if the flaws can be overcome to be a productive franchise QB.

 

 

[aceman_16]

Hmmm.... still don't care about this guy.

[eball]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

With al life respect, it’s because you’re a Bills fan and want him to be the guy.  There are guys like Gabbert, Locker, etc who get drafted high and people just ignore their college production or make excuses for their play.  

 

Look, I hope you and the Bills are right.  And as much as people want to blame everyone else for Allen’s problems, he also played with a top 10 defense.  While dominating in college is no guarantee for nfl success, being mediocre in the Mountain West is worrisome. No matter who you play with. Top 10 pick qbs should elevate their teams and players around them.

 

Umm, ok.

 

Wyoming record in the four years pre-Allen:  4-8, 5-7, 4-8, 2-10

 

Wyoming record in two seasons with Allen:  8-6, 8-5

[Bray Wyatt]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Umm, ok.

 

Wyoming record in the four years pre-Allen:  4-8, 5-7, 4-8, 2-10

 

Wyoming record in two seasons with Allen:  8-6, 8-5

 

8-3 his second season as starter (they lost two games he didnt start)

[John from Riverside]

16 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Gabriels' view of Allen is nothing unusual or unique;  I agree with what he is saying, as the OP reports it.  Allen has major footwork issues, accuracy issues, and his collegiate completion % is bad.  He is a huge risk and the fate of McBeane may well be tied to how well he does. 

 

It is also not unusual to suggest all the big name QBs from this year's draft may not be successful in the NFL.

 

Every draft/scouting expert leading up to the draft pretty much indicated that each QB is flawed, just in different ways.

 

The question is to what degree and if the flaws can be overcome to be a productive franchise QB.

 

 

The real question is will Gabrielle step up if he is wrong on these players?  NO HE WILL NOT

 

Just like a lot of poster's here who air on the side of negativity consistantly......its easy to do that because you wont be wrong often.....it doesnt make you smarter.

[BuffaloRush]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The real question is will Gabrielle step up if he is wrong on these players?  NO HE WILL NOT

 

Just like a lot of poster's here who air on the side of negativity consistantly......its easy to do that because you wont be wrong often.....it doesnt make you smarter.

 

No he will not.  He was dead wrong about Peterman being a better option than Tyrod.  After the 5 INTs and he pretended like he never said anything

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

No he will not.  He was dead wrong about Peterman being a better option than Tyrod.  After the 5 INTs and he pretended like he never said anything

Yeah that is very much my point....

 

its easy to sit on the side lines and make predictions that you NEVER have to own up to.

 

The hard part is staking your reputation on it......if Josh Allen fails......McD and Beane may or may not get a second chance...this is how they feed their families.  I am quite sure that they did not take the situation lightly.

 

Meanwhile......Gabriel can just move onto the next click bait