HappyDays Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Looking good in shorts is meaningless this time of year. So here's my question to anyone who has said this - how are the coaches deciding who the starter will be if these practices are meaningless? If it is obvious that Peterman can't play from last year's games, why is he being given significant time with the 1st team offense? Clearly the coaches believe you can evaluate the QBs right now. Clearly Peterman is still in the running to be the starter, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said: So why is McD wasting valuable first team reps on someone who is going to be PS at best? Huh? McD has repeated said there is NO depth chart right now. For people to keep over exaggerating him getting first team reps right now is puzzling. All 3 QB's are taking first team reps, and one day after NP opened OTA's with first team, AJ opened day 2. NP is only QB with familiarity with the team, so no shock at this time of year he is getting into the rotation. And they said all 3 will be allowed to compete...does NOT mean he has some kind of leg up. And again, "wasting valuable first team reps" is to ignore what McD keeps insisting on, and thats there is no depth chart right now. They are moving guys in all positions in and out of first team reps, not just all the QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: So why is McD wasting valuable first team reps on someone who is going to be PS at best? Three reasons. He is 1) rewarding Nate in front of his teammates to show what doing all the rights things (training, film work, being great guy/citizen/teammate will get you, 2) combined with having Josh beat out both guys right in front of his teammates for a legitimate winning of the job versus just having handed it to him, and 3) showing Josh just the right way to do things to be a pro, which Nate does. Nate is a great guy and teammate and has a lot of stuff going for him to make a great NFL quarterback, he just also has a couple of killer deficiencies that prevent him from even being a legitimate one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, HappyDays said: So here's my question to anyone who has said this - how are the coaches deciding who the starter will be if these practices are meaningless? If it is obvious that Peterman can't play from last year's games, why is he being given significant time with the 1st team offense? Clearly the coaches believe you can evaluate the QBs right now. Clearly Peterman is still in the running to be the starter, right? I just answered this above. Once again, there is no depth chart and they are moving all kinds of guys in and out of first team reps, especially YOUNG guys to get them reps and experience in how they practice, study, learn the playbook, etc prior to going into training camp and preseason. This time of year is not about establishing depth charts. Edited June 13, 2018 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Three reasons. He is 1) rewarding Nate in front of his teammates to show what doing all the rights things (training, film work, being great guy/citizen/teammate will get you, 2) combined with having Josh beat out both guys right in front of his teammates for a legitimate winning of the job versus just having handed it to him, and 3) showing Josh just the right way to do things to be a pro, which Nate does. Nate is a great guy and teammate and has a lot of stuff going for him to make a great NFL quarterback, he just also has a couple of killer deficiencies that prevent him from even being a legitimate one. Ok.,, thanks for the explanation... that all seems pretty plausible... I hope though that if NP is not in the plans than he is kicked to working exclusively with the backups pretty soon and allow the other 2 to develop some chemistry with the starters...they are both new to the team so they are going to need time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Three reasons. He is 1) rewarding Nate in front of his teammates to show what doing all the rights things (training, film work, being great guy/citizen/teammate will get you, 2) combined with having Josh beat out both guys right in front of his teammates for a legitimate winning of the job versus just having handed it to him, and 3) showing Josh just the right way to do things to be a pro, which Nate does. Nate is a great guy and teammate and has a lot of stuff going for him to make a great NFL quarterback, he just also has a couple of killer deficiencies that prevent him from even being a legitimate one. 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I just answered this above. Once again, there is no depth chart and they are moving all kinds of guys in and out of first team reps, especially YOUNG guys to get them reps and experience in how they practice, study, learn the playbook, etc prior to going into training camp and preseason. This time of year is not about establishing depth charts. But this is clearly not true for every position. Edmunds is already the starter at MLB. They are not pretending he is competing with Vallejo. McDermott said at his press conference yesterday they have the depth chart written "in pencil." They already have an idea of who the starters will be but they're obviously still testing out positions where they don't know for sure. They will name the starter during training camp, he said as much in the press conference. They wouldn't be wasting 1st team reps on Peterman if it was already decided that he wouldn't be the starter. They didn't give him 1st team reps last year when Tyrod was already the presumed starter. I know you guys have already made up your mind on Peterman, which is fine, but don't assume McDermott has. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, HappyDays said: But this is clearly not true for every position. Edmunds is already the starter at MLB. They are not pretending he is competing with Vallejo. McDermott said at his press conference yesterday they have the depth chart written "in pencil." They already have an idea of who the starters will be but they're obviously still testing out positions where they don't know for sure. They will name the starter during training camp, he said as much in the press conference. They wouldn't be wasting 1st team reps on Peterman if it was already decided that he wouldn't be the starter. They didn't give him 1st team reps last year when Tyrod was already the presumed starter. I know you guys have already made up your mind on Peterman, which is fine, but don't assume McDermott has. 1. McD repeatedly said there is no depth chart, and specifically referencing the QB position during questions. 2. McD said it would be an open competition between all 3, so it was expected they would all get first teams reps, and they have. NP has the most familiarity as well given neither AJ or Allen were on the roster last year, so also fully expected to be getting reps for that reason. 3. No one once said McD has made up his mind, no coach would ever make their mind up at this stage. None of this matters in relation to the post you and others responded too. I never once referenced the FO or McD made their mind up that NP is a PS squad guy only. They drafted him, they obviously are going to keep trying to develop him especially considering neither AJ or Allen were here last year. I stated the odds of him actually beating out AJ and Allen are very low. We already know he can't beat out Allen, meaning Allen will be at the very least the #2 QB come week 1 because there is ZERO chance is will be on the PS and very doubtful the Bills will carry 3 active QB's on game day. So the only chance NP has is to flat out beat AJ for the starting job or the backup job (If Allen wins the start week 1). I pointed out why that feels like a long shot still. I pointed out all the reasons. AJ has performed substantially better in college, preseason, regular season, and post season appearances than NP. I mean we are talking about a guy who completed 50% of his passes in preseason against scrubs, and 49% of his passes in regular season and post season appearance last year. Not to mention 6 Ints and 3 Fumbles in 52 career pass attempts. So I say once again, the odds are stacked against NP and playing in shorts is not a good barometer at this time of year of grading where he is at. He was not good in college under pressure and he was even worse in the NFL so far. So for people to over value him in shorts while AJ and Allen are still getting familiar with the players, practice style, coaching, playbook, etc is IMO setting themselves up for a lot of false hope. I like NP, wish him the best, but the reality is he is still a long shot to make this roster until he proves SUBSTANTIAL improvement once the bullets really start to fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 8 hours ago, cd1 said: You guys are obviously wasting time posting on message boards when you could be making BIG $$$$ in working somewhere in the NFL. So could you working at scouting for our opponents which would make the Bills better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 38 minutes ago, Limeaid said: So could you working at scouting for our opponents which would make the Bills better. ...pretty interesting that the Peterman has been getting positive reviews which is not surprising despite the 5 pick debacle and the "TBD El Busto" labelers piling on.....so what if the final pecking order looks like: 1. McCarron 2. Allen 3. Peterman (PS) (of course it's possible 1 & 2 could change at some point in the season) ..if, IF Peterman continues to progress, is the PS a risk to exposure?......would it matter?........would you carry 3 on the final 53 if he shows solid value?.....what is your take bud?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ..if, IF Peterman continues to progress, is the PS a risk to exposure?......would it matter?........would you carry 3 on the final 53 if he shows solid value?.....what is your take bud?... My take is if they were willing to go with 2 Qbs last year, one a 5th round rookie, then they will be willing to go with 2 QBs, one a first round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurpleBull Posted June 13, 2018 Author Share Posted June 13, 2018 5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I have no idea what will constitute Allen being ready. That is 100% up to Daboll and McDermott. At some point they will be comfortable with him playing and that’s when he goes on the field. Beane will be pushing for that to be sooner than later. The fact that Peterman being 10-0 with a 3:1 QB to INT ratio is even on your radar is absurd. Tom Brady couldn’t do that with that schedule. The reality is, if Peterman or McCarron starts the Bills will be no better than 2-2 coming home to play the Titans. If Allen is “ready” by that point he will get the ball. The next “logical” time would be about a month later home to the Bears. At some point though, right or wrong, the Bills are going to get him out there. It was clearly a hypothetical question being posed to a get definitive stance on the matter out of you. You've essentially revealed that you believe Josh Allen getting on the field comes before team success, although you will no doubt deny it. You're merely using the coaches as a cover to hide your personal views as a fan and Josh Allen supporter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Limeaid said: My take is if they were willing to go with 2 Qbs last year, one a 5th round rookie, then they will be willing to go with 2 QBs, one a first round pick. ...so then roll the dice, move Peterman to PS if that is their choice and see what happens?......tough to carry 3 on active 53...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: It was clearly a hypothetical question being posed to a get definitive stance on the matter out of you. You've essentially revealed that you believe Josh Allen getting on the field comes before team success, although you will no doubt deny it. You're merely using the coaches as a cover to hide your personal views as a fan and Josh Allen supporter. Josh Allen getting on the field early, which may be a short term failure in exchange for quicker long-lasting future success due to experience can still be easily looked at as "team success." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...pretty interesting that the Peterman has been getting positive reviews which is not surprising despite the 5 pick debacle and the "TBD El Busto" labelers piling on.....so what if the final pecking order looks like: 1. McCarron 2. Allen 3. Peterman (PS) (of course it's possible 1 & 2 could change at some point in the season) ..if, IF Peterman continues to progress, is the PS a risk to exposure?......would it matter?........would you carry 3 on the final 53 if he shows solid value?.....what is your take bud?... I think another team would take a chance on NP if he was on the PS particularly when injuries start to happen around the League... Would it matter? Probably not as that would mean that they see him as the clear No 3 so therefore expendable.. Given that all 3 are relatively inexperienced, personally I would prefer they keep all of them in the 53 at least for the first half of the season... Appreciate that this is not a popular opinion... If Allen is starting by then maybe they can get something in a trade of AJ provided they have the confidence that NP can be the backup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said: I think another team would take a chance on NP if he was on the PS particularly when injuries start to happen around the League... Would it matter? Probably not as that would mean that they see him as the clear No 3 so therefore expendable.. Given that all 3 are relatively inexperienced, personally I would prefer they keep all of them in the 53 at least for the first half of the season... Appreciate that this is not a popular opinion... If Allen is starting by then maybe they can get something in a trade of AJ provided they have the confidence that NP can be the backup ...interesting perspective...thanks for sharing .....think this Peterman kid has some promise...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, BurpleBull said: It was clearly a hypothetical question being posed to a get definitive stance on the matter out of you. You've essentially revealed that you believe Josh Allen getting on the field comes before team success, although you will no doubt deny it. You're merely using the coaches as a cover to hide your personal views as a fan and Josh Allen supporter. I don’t deny that. Last year the Bills traded Dareus despite a 4-2 start (good point by Happy Days). They ran Peterman out there at 5-4. The goal of this regime is long-term sustained success. They aren’t trying to get a wild card berth. They are trying to win a Super Bowl. FWIW, I’m on record as having serious concerns about Allen. I’m also on record as saying that he likely needs a red shirt year. He wasn’t near the top of my QB list. The Bills CLEARLY feel differently. He has been “their guy” for quite some time. This team is targeting 2019 as the time to be a competitor. They are building towards that. They have 9 picks, almost $100M in so space and solid defensive pieces in place. They still haven’t addressed the offense. Outside of Dawkins and Allen none of these guys are “definitely” a part of the future. They are hoping that some guys like Zay, maybe Teller and others are a part of that. The Bills are not going to go into 2019 with Allen as an unknown. They are going to try to get him experience so that he hits the ground running next year. Beane and McDermott’s careers ride on him. That’s the nature of the NFL. I’m really surprised that anyone views this situation differently? That doesn’t mean that it will work or fail. It just means that “IS” the plan. The Bills have said repeatedly that this won’t happen overnight. By this time next year though the foundation of the team moving forward will be in place. Edited June 14, 2018 by Kirby Jackson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 7 hours ago, BurpleBull said: You know what Nathan Peterman's mom would laugh at even more than my hypothetical? Your notion that the Bills' coaches would pull him from the lineup in favor of Allen If this scenario played out. What do you say would constitute Allen being ready and deserving of taking over the reins from Peterman, in McDermott and Daboll's minds in this given scenario? I'm just curious. In the situation you portray obviously Peterman plays out the season. But the chances of it happening are less than 1% so excuse me if I am not going to spend too much time hypothesising about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: In the situation you portray obviously Peterman plays out the season. But the chances of it happening are less than 1% so excuse me if I am not going to spend too much time hypothesising about it. Less than 1% that the Bills start 10-0 with Peterman having a 3:1 TD to INT?!? You think that their is less than a 1% chance that he is the MVP of the NFL through 10 weeks? You are so negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 ..so here is my dumbazz unsubstantiated perspective.....this trio could be the best at OBD in a long, long time if things progress as advertised....let's say they do and you keep all on the active 53 as protectionism.....a club inquires mid-season after their QB injury giving McBeane the upper hand as to whom and what the asking price may be....wishful thinking?.. help us in the long run or non sequitur?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ..so here is my dumbazz unsubstantiated perspective.....this trio could be the best at OBD in a long, long time if things progress as advertised....let's say they do and you keep all on the active 53 as protectionism.....a club inquires mid-season after their QB injury giving McBeane the upper hand as to whom and what the asking price may be....wishful thinking?.. help us in the long run or non sequitur?.... I think that the best scenario is a QB on a contender goes down in the preseason. Say Brees goes down with a torn ACL. The Saints may look to acquire McCarron. They have no first next year and a 38 year-old QB with a torn ACL. Maybe they’ll give a 2nd to take a chance that McCarron is the answer? That’s wishful thinking but not CRAZY. Minnesota gave up a 1st and 4th or something for Bradford in a similar situation. It would have to be the PERFECT situation of a contending team, with a closing window and an older or questionable QB. The Saints, Pats, Chargers, Steelers, Vikings (maybe), and Jags are the teams that come to mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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