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Offensive Line - Any Chance it Holds Up?

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2 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Continuity only matters with system. The Raiders are a perfect example, last years Bills also to a lesser extent. The Raiders had what was considered the best OL in football, or at least top 3. They changed the system and couldn't block anyone. 

 

We really won't know how good or bad they are as a unit until they play. There aren't any 1st round picks, but so on paper it looks weak, but hopefully the coaches and QB will put them in situations to succeed. 

 

Good point about systems, in relation to continuity, although I don't think that's where it only matters. Maybe "continuity" was the wrong word for me to use, or is too vague.

 

IMO, there's some value in familiarity with the players next to you, with any unit of a team (but especially on the lines). Knowing certain tendencies, and strengths and weaknesses of those players has to have some type of effect on how you play, in your approach, regardless of scheme. 

 

As far as how good or bad they'll be, you're right. We're all just guessing really at this point. There's so many question marks on offense this year that we cannot say anything with any certainty. But looking at things logically, it's probably safe to say or expect that there will be some noticeable growing pains in a few areas. Personally, I don't think WR Will be as big an issue as it looks to be on paper, but we'll see. Of course, their play is dependent on the QB and offensive line, and while the WR group certainly is not loaded with top talent, I think the players we have will be fine for this offense.

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Offensive line always suffers injuries as it is, and last year our reserves didn't play very well as a whole. Some like Ducasse & Groy (IMO) played downright miserable, and now they're starters.

Our line already regressed substantially last year, but still managed to at least hold up enough to have a decent, not "good," run game. This year it's worse, so definitely expecting setbacks, especially when injuries take their toll.

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50 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

Offensive line always suffers injuries as it is, and last year our reserves didn't play very well as a whole. Some like Ducasse & Groy (IMO) played downright miserable, and now they're starters.

Our line already regressed substantially last year, but still managed to at least hold up enough to have a decent, not "good," run game. This year it's worse, so definitely expecting setbacks, especially when injuries take their toll.

Don't forget they won't have to pass pro for 6 seconds. We will be okay.

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Posted (edited)

I believe the Bills aren't in as bad of a place as every one (or at least the "Football Experts") think when it comes to the O line !

 

Sure E Wood & Ritchie are definitely a loss but Groy did a great job when Wood went down a couple yrs back & John Miller seems to be back to being motivated plus who they picked up in the draft  & after i think we could actually be a bit better .

 

Especially if they put W.Teller at RT & get rid of Mills or use him as a depth player & maybe the undrafted guy from Denmark can take Vlads place at LG . And then there is Bodine too ...

 

I think by the time the season roles around they will have it figured out ...

Edited by T master

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2 hours ago, T master said:

Especially if they put W.Teller at RT & get rid of Mills or use him as a depth player & maybe the undrafted guy from Denmark can take Vlads place at LG . And then there is Bodine too ...

 

I think by the time the season roles around they will have it figured out ...

I didn't really study up on Teller. What I read encouraged me to think he might be a good guard, but I don't recall anything suggesting he could play RT. (It might very well fit with his skill set, I just don't recall reading about it.) Any indication he was lining up at tackle during OTAs or mini-camp? Personally, I'd be happy if Teller secured one of the Guard positions (I almost wrote G spots and decided against it 😛).

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16 hours ago, BigDingus said:

Offensive line always suffers injuries as it is, and last year our reserves didn't play very well as a whole. Some like Ducasse & Groy (IMO) played downright miserable, and now they're starters.

Our line already regressed substantially last year, but still managed to at least hold up enough to have a decent, not "good," run game. This year it's worse, so definitely expecting setbacks, especially when injuries take their toll.

 

Ducasse was far from "miserable". The more playing time he got, the better he played. 

3 hours ago, T master said:

I believe the Bills aren't in as bad of a place as every one (or at least the "Football Experts") think when it comes to the O line !

 

Sure E Wood & Ritchie are definitely a loss but Groy did a great job when Wood went down a couple yrs back & John Miller seems to be back to being motivated plus who they picked up in the draft  & after i think we could actually be a bit better .

 

Especially if they put W.Teller at RT & get rid of Mills or use him as a depth player & maybe the undrafted guy from Denmark can take Vlads place at LG . And then there is Bodine too ...

 

I think by the time the season roles around they will have it figured out ...

 

Groy did play very well in place of Wood, but I think this staff will prefer to keep him as a swing backup, mainly due to his versatility. If a guard goes down, he could fill in there, as well as at center. I guess it will come down to how well Bondine looks at center in camp, but he doesn't have the versatility that Groy does (as far as I know). 

 

Vlad, I believe, is a lock for LG. I don't know why people are still ragging on him. He played pretty well last year, although on the right side. 

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7 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

Vlad, I believe, is a lock for LG. I don't know why people are still ragging on him. He played pretty well last year, although on the right side. 

Blatant anti-vampire bigotry . . . 

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Posted (edited)

Not the end all, be all, but PFF had Vlad ranked 24 out of 64 last season. Not great, but far from miserable. He does have experience at LG as well.

Edited by Drunken Pygmy Goat

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3 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

Not the end all, be all, but PFF had Vlad ranked 24 out of 64 last season. Not great, but far from miserable. He does have experience at LG as well.

My main concerns are actually the tackle positions. Dawkins played well, but how will he do next to a guard who will probably be inferior to Incognito? I don't really have confidence in any of our RT candidates.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

Ducasse was far from "miserable". The more playing time he got, the better he played. 

 

Groy did play very well in place of Wood, but I think this staff will prefer to keep him as a swing backup, mainly due to his versatility. If a guard goes down, he could fill in there, as well as at center. I guess it will come down to how well Bondine looks at center in camp, but he doesn't have the versatility that Groy does (as far as I know). 

 

Vlad, I believe, is a lock for LG. I don't know why people are still ragging on him. He played pretty well last year, although on the right side. 

 

What..... You were on the boards last season right? Game after game there'd be posts littered with people breaking down Vlad's crappy play...He was a liability more than an asset.

 

Granted there were times he showed potential, but it seemed as if he was just punching above his weight class for short bursts rather than "this is who the guy really is."

Either way, not having Woods & Incognito (and yes, Glenn as well), is definitely going backwards.

Edited by BigDingus

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I think you’ll see some 1st and 2nd Rd picks invested in our O-line next year.  McD and Beane both preach strong line play.  They just couldn’t fill all the holes this year.  

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On 6/13/2018 at 3:21 PM, BuffaloBaumer said:

There are certainly other holes on this team (receiver, LB, DE) that deserve concern but the one position that I just can't seem to get past is the O Line. Is there any way that some of these guys could surprise as it is really the only reason I do not want Allen starting until later in the season. The defense could be solid enough and with Allen, Shady, Clay, along with a mix of receivers, the offense could surprise IF the Oline holds up. I just don't see it and it and in my opinion, it could be the only thing holding this team back from another Wild Card run.

If I buy a ticket theres  a chance that I could win a lottery  !! 

 

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if McDermott can withstand losing three OL starters he's in the BB class of coaches

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

What..... You were on the boards last season right? Game after game there'd be posts littered with people breaking down Vlad's crappy play...He was a liability more than an asset.

 

Granted there were times he showed potential, but it seemed as if he was just punching above his weight class for short bursts rather than "this is who the guy really is."

Either way, not having Woods & Incognito (and yes, Glenn as well), is definitely going backwards.

 

I disagree. I saw Ducasse play better towards the end of the year. A bit shaky at first, but seemed to get comfortable over the last 5-6 weeks. 

 

I'm not saying he's great or anything, but overall he looked like an average, decent starting NFL guard. 

 

People can "break down" a guy's play, and paint a certain picture, based on a few plays. IIRC, most of us here were very critical of the Bills signing him, and probably had a "bad vibe" from the start, hardly giving him a chance. I'm sure many fans focused on him a lot with that in mind, and any poor game, or play, was going to be heavily scrutinized. We love vindication on this board...

 

Every guy misses blocks here and there. Everyone on this board is signing praises for Dion Dawkins, but there were a couple of games last year where he looked far worse than Ducasse. But he was a rookie, though, filling in at T, so fans chalk it up to that and give him a pass. There were several instances last year where, if not for Taylor's elusiveness, he would have given up sacks. Many of us would have a much different view of him if the Bills had a QB that doesn't escape pressure as well as TT (as they will this year...). Now I'm not saying I don't see the promise of DD, just trying to put judging players into perspective. 

 

Last year, PFF gave Vlad a better grade than Dawkins. Again, I get that DD was a rookie T and Vlad an 8 year vet G, but some people speak as if he was a turnstile, when DD was probably closer to that than Vlad was. Maybe I'm crazy, but I know what my eyes witnessed, and it wasn't more liability than asset. And if I'm going look for the words of outsiders as vindication, I'd rather use the words of unbiased people that are paid to judge NFL players for a living, than people on a MB that already have a negative view of a player and need to find someone to point a finger at. 

 

Ducasse may not have had a great career for a 2nd round OL, but 2017 was his best since his rookie season. Whether or not his play will be on the same level or, close to it, going forward remains to be seen. 

 

I do agree with your last comment.

 

Edited by Drunken Pygmy Goat
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On 6/15/2018 at 11:20 AM, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

Ducasse was far from "miserable". The more playing time he got, the better he played. 

 

Groy did play very well in place of Wood, but I think this staff will prefer to keep him as a swing backup, mainly due to his versatility. If a guard goes down, he could fill in there, as well as at center. I guess it will come down to how well Bondine looks at center in camp, but he doesn't have the versatility that Groy does (as far as I know). 

 

IMO that is like keeping full size spare in trunk for versatility while continuing to run on damaged tire for continuity. If Groy is a better center determine it quickly and extend him while they can. 

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The big question is how well Teller can Replace Richie. I feel Dawkins is adequate at LT. Groy is a decent center. Our right side will probably be weak like last year. I don't see a huge drop off if Teller was as big a steal as the pundits say he was.

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Teller will probably not replace Richie; Ducasse replaced Miller because Miller was not performing as well, hopefully sophomore slump, and Teller will likely be swing guard this year with Miller starting again.

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28 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Teller will probably not replace Richie; Ducasse replaced Miller because Miller was not performing as well, hopefully sophomore slump, and Teller will likely be swing guard this year with Miller starting again.

 

 

...certainly like the idea of Daboll keeping his eye on schemes......believe he said scheme would be opposition specific versus "one size fits all"....Castillo may not like the meddling....

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On 6/15/2018 at 11:37 AM, Dr. Who said:

My main concerns are actually the tackle positions. Dawkins played well, but how will he do next to a guard who will probably be inferior to Incognito? I don't really have confidence in any of our RT candidates.

 

This was my major issue with the Glenn trade. We have a player in Dawkins. But let’s not forget he was drafted to play RT. A healthy Glenn could have fortified both end positions for us. A better line and better depth. 

 

I fully realize he was integral in our trade to get Josh Allen. Josh Allen is a different conversation. 

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On 6/14/2018 at 4:14 PM, BigDingus said:

Offensive line always suffers injuries as it is, and last year our reserves didn't play very well as a whole. Some like Ducasse & Groy (IMO) played downright miserable, and now they're starters.

Our line already regressed substantially last year, but still managed to at least hold up enough to have a decent, not "good," run game. This year it's worse, so definitely expecting setbacks, especially when injuries take their toll.

Your posts are so bad sometines I wonder if you actually watch the games

 

groy did NOT play miserable when he played quite the opposite the concern with him is can he hold up as. A full time starter

 

 Decause started off bad but actually found his game down the stretch and ended up being far from horrible

 

 

 

 

 

On 6/15/2018 at 1:50 PM, BigDingus said:

 

What..... You were on the boards last season right? Game after game there'd be posts littered with people breaking down Vlad's crappy play...He was a liability more than an asset.

 

Granted there were times he showed potential, but it seemed as if he was just punching above his weight class for short bursts rather than "this is who the guy really is."

Either way, not having Woods & Incognito (and yes, Glenn as well), is definitely going backwards.

Try watching the games instead of forming your opinions based on fellow armchair qbs

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22 hours ago, stuvian said:

if McDermott can withstand losing three OL starters he's in the BB class of coaches

That is more Brady being awesome than BB. He knows where to go before the ball is snapped.

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A couple of things that would greatly help the ol cause

 

the return to power scheme should get miller back on the field who was a good fit in that scheme

 

if DAwkins can continue his good lt play and improve upon it he will need less help from the og next to him

 

the weakness continues to be right ot

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