Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 3 hours ago, BUNCH OF MULARKEY said: Buddy died ? Over Macho Grande? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDexter Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I must say that Josh Allen caught me off guard here. I kinda thought we were going to another "west coast" short pass type of QB. We gave Cardale Jones to the Chargers for nothing. He and Allen are almost clones - great physical talent, very raw at reading defenses/decision making etc.... I don't see why we did that. swapped out Jones only to spend a high first on Allen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebrastripes Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, LaDexter said: He and Allen are almost clones - great physical talent, very raw at reading defenses/decision making etc.... Terrible comparison. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDexter Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Big strong armed QBs who were inconsistent in college with reading defenses and decision making am I wrong about that?? Cardale won the national championship. Allen didn't. I guess that's where the comparison ends... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 1 hour ago, mileena said: But he wasn't drafted in the top 10, was he? Carson Wentz begs to differ with you. Just because Carson Wentz and a whole bunch of other QB's came in and started right away and was super successful doesn't mean that QB's who sit their first year are doomed for failure as shown by the numerous super successful top 10 picks that didn't start week 1 and went on to be fantastic QB's. Context is king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 1 minute ago, LaDexter said: Big strong armed QBs who were inconsistent in college with reading defenses and decision making am I wrong about that?? Cardale won the national championship. Allen didn't. I guess that's where the comparison ends... I think if you dig into context you may find the College history is worth another look. Cardale really is an awful pass thrower. Still like the Kid. Allen is not Cardale nor is this swapping out one for the other. imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDexter Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 No question that Aaron Rodgers was a complete bust - sat on the bench for THREE YEARS!!!! The Big 10 championship vs Wisconsin is a tape full of HOF caliber throws by Cardale. But you don't wanna hear that now.... Indeed, I'll take that tape of Cardale vs. Wisconsin vs any Josh Allen tape... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 You know it's the offseason when someone is talking up Cardale Jones 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, LaDexter said: No question that Aaron Rodgers was a complete bust - sat on the bench for THREE YEARS!!!! The Big 10 championship vs Wisconsin is a tape full of HOF caliber throws by Cardale. But you don't wanna hear that now.... Indeed, I'll take that tape of Cardale vs. Wisconsin vs any Josh Allen tape... WELCOME! ? sort of..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDexter Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, HappyDays said: You know it's the offseason when someone is talking up Cardale Jones I don't think anyone is confused about Cardale. He is what he is, a prospect with incredible tools and very little experience in a route tree system etc... My point is that a cerebral decision maker with experience, not necessarily a strong armed gunner, would've been more "consistent" with the post Rex group here... Cardale was out the moment Rex was gone. Rex wanted to give Cardale three starts/ three weeks with the starters. Instead, Cardale got no practice with the starters and one quarter to mop up for the last first round Bills Qb.... For the record, my favorite QB this Draft was a TRYOUT for the Rams.... Luis Perez of Texas A&M Commerce.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebrastripes Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 20 minutes ago, LaDexter said: Big strong armed QBs who were inconsistent in college with reading defenses and decision making am I wrong about that?? Cardale won the national championship. Allen didn't. I guess that's where the comparison ends... Go back and watch some film on these two guys. You will see they are not even remotely close to the same qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDexter Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I have watched more film of both of those than you have ever watched of the Wyoming Cowboys. Best prospect on Wyoming is this edge rusher... #91 https://gowyo.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3097 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 1 hour ago, mileena said: You said earlier he had died in your post when you said "our late unlamented GM Buddy Nix". I was in shock too when I read this. "Late" means "deceased". Perhaps 'late' was referring to his annoying habit of being tardy for meetings? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'd like to drill into this a little bit because I'm not sure I understand your analysis. It sounds as though you're saying it doesn't matter if a guy sits, but then saying Allen should sit. Which doesn't make sense, and you seem like a sensible guy, so perhaps could you reiterate your analysis or link the post where you did it? I personally agree that Allen should sit for a year, be sure he has a thorough understanding of the playbook and the game and what he'll actually see from NFL defenses by game film and VR analysis (I hope the Bills are using this), and also have a chance to refine and solidify changes to his mechanics before he goes into "live action" I wish nothing ill for the Chiefs, unless they're playing the Bills LOL - they're currently the only NFL team in my state after all! BUT, I'd wait until Mahomes has done something to proclaim him a generational talent, myself....for the Chiefs sake, I hope they're right Mahomes can play in the NFL since they did trade away a very competent NFL-quality QB - but "Baby steps man", let him play a few games first Hapless Bills Fan - Last year, in some Chiefs facebook groups I post in, I was looking at the Sit Vs Start now debate raging about Mahomes at the time. A lot of people were just throwing it out there that Mahomes should sit because he was a rookie and needed to learn. No one...not armchair internet guys...not paid sportswriters....no one ever supports this with any data....they just throw it out there like it's a forgone conclusion that a rookie is better of sitting....but is that really the case? It's a tough question to answer because plenty of awful QB, never see a field because they are awful...and plenty of awful QB see the field because they are a high draft pick....so the best I could do was to take the STARTING QB's from the last 20 super bowls. This gave me a sample size of several long term starting QB who are considered to be good to elite for the most part. It also has a nice cross section of high first round picks, a few other round picks and an undrafted FA all in that grouping. The idea was to check the QB rating for each of these QB's over the course of the first 16 games they started in the NFL. IF sitting was a benefit to a NFL superbowl caliber QB, you would think that among this group, those who sat signifigant time to start their career, would have a highter QB rating over their first 16 games started, having sat an learned, practiced more before starting out, etc etc. What that data actually shows is that of that group of super bowl starting caliber QB, their QB rating over the course of their first 16 games was basically identical. the sit and learn group was actually a point or 2 lower in QB rating than the start from day one group. The most telling thing about the data to me was that the rating for these guys was almost the same on average for the their frist 16 games. The data says that if a QB is going to be good/great, it is because he had the talent to begin with and that over the first 16 games of his career, he does NOT gain an advantage having sat. He learns to be an NFL QB at the same rate as the guy who started from day 1 by BEING ON THE FIELD AND PLAYING NFL GAMES...not reading playbooks, not studying film....not watching someone else do it. ......and then YES...I go against my own analysis for Josh Allen and strongly suggest that to ME...in my opinion....is the rare guy who probably would actually see tangible improvement by sitting a year to start with....I do not think that Wyoming prepared him for NFL football at all. (I frankly don't think he'll ever be that good) ...but playing behind a poor line, with poor talent around you, means you repeated over and over again...a lot of things that didn't prepare you to be a good NFL QB. If all your reps were running for your life, throwing to slow targets, then Allen would be a guy who would actually benefit from staying OFF an NFL field on game day until he has made real progress on the practice field. No one is saying he doesn't have the build, the arm, the brains....but he simply doesn't have anywhere near the QUALITY REPS most others got in college football to be ready. To be CLEAR....Wentz, Goff, even Mahomes....got A LOT more out of their time in college football than Allen did. He needs this year to get right. I'm not convinced he'll ever be accurate enough for the NFL...I didn't think he'd ever be before the draft, and I still don't....what I am SURE about is that he shouldn't be thrown out on the field now. That wouldn't be fair to him...and it wouldn't be fair to you, the fans of the Bills to ruin this kid because he wasn't ready. To summarize. Yes, I think if you believe a QB is the real deal, he needs to start....Yes, I think Allen needs to sit because he is the exception due to his unusual college career. And lastly....Mahomes is going melt your faces off this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 You learn more by playing then sitting. Let him learn from his mistakes this year then hope for better year 2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 37 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: Hapless Bills Fan - Last year, in some Chiefs facebook groups I post in, I was looking at the Sit Vs Start now debate raging about Mahomes at the time. A lot of people were just throwing it out there that Mahomes should sit because he was a rookie and needed to learn. No one...not armchair internet guys...not paid sportswriters....no one ever supports this with any data....they just throw it out there like it's a forgone conclusion that a rookie is better of sitting....but is that really the case? It's a tough question to answer because plenty of awful QB, never see a field because they are awful...and plenty of awful QB see the field because they are a high draft pick....so the best I could do was to take the STARTING QB's from the last 20 super bowls. This gave me a sample size of several long term starting QB who are considered to be good to elite for the most part. It also has a nice cross section of high first round picks, a few other round picks and an undrafted FA all in that grouping. The idea was to check the QB rating for each of these QB's over the course of the first 16 games they started in the NFL. IF sitting was a benefit to a NFL superbowl caliber QB, you would think that among this group, those who sat signifigant time to start their career, would have a highter QB rating over their first 16 games started, having sat an learned, practiced more before starting out, etc etc. What that data actually shows is that of that group of super bowl starting caliber QB, their QB rating over the course of their first 16 games was basically identical. the sit and learn group was actually a point or 2 lower in QB rating than the start from day one group. The most telling thing about the data to me was that the rating for these guys was almost the same on average for the their frist 16 games. The data says that if a QB is going to be good/great, it is because he had the talent to begin with and that over the first 16 games of his career, he does NOT gain an advantage having sat. He learns to be an NFL QB at the same rate as the guy who started from day 1 by BEING ON THE FIELD AND PLAYING NFL GAMES...not reading playbooks, not studying film....not watching someone else do it. ......and then YES...I go against my own analysis for Josh Allen and strongly suggest that to ME...in my opinion....is the rare guy who probably would actually see tangible improvement by sitting a year to start with....I do not think that Wyoming prepared him for NFL football at all. (I frankly don't think he'll ever be that good) ...but playing behind a poor line, with poor talent around you, means you repeated over and over again...a lot of things that didn't prepare you to be a good NFL QB. If all your reps were running for your life, throwing to slow targets, then Allen would be a guy who would actually benefit from staying OFF an NFL field on game day until he has made real progress on the practice field. No one is saying he doesn't have the build, the arm, the brains....but he simply doesn't have anywhere near the QUALITY REPS most others got in college football to be ready. To be CLEAR....Wentz, Goff, even Mahomes....got A LOT more out of their time in college football than Allen did. He needs this year to get right. I'm not convinced he'll ever be accurate enough for the NFL...I didn't think he'd ever be before the draft, and I still don't....what I am SURE about is that he shouldn't be thrown out on the field now. That wouldn't be fair to him...and it wouldn't be fair to you, the fans of the Bills to ruin this kid because he wasn't ready. To summarize. Yes, I think if you believe a QB is the real deal, he needs to start....Yes, I think Allen needs to sit because he is the exception due to his unusual college career. And lastly....Mahomes is going melt your faces off this year. Well let’s hope so became so he looked like crap in his minimal time last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Well let’s hope so became so he looked like crap in his minimal time last year http://www.nfl.com/videos/baldys-breakdowns/0ap3000000905916/Why-Patrick-Mahomes-is-ready-to-lead-the-Chiefs-Film-Review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Well if he says it it must true lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, auburnbillsbacker said: You learn more by playing then sitting. Let him learn from his mistakes this year then hope for better year 2. Mr Peterman looked like he was trying to earn a PhD in just a couple quarters last year! Fast track, baby! (Relax! I’m kidding.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Josh Allen threw one bad pass last week so we are busy searching for a new guy. Seems like an over reaction to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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