mannc Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 20 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: Almost certainly yes. I can't think of anything where it wouldn't . Maybe someone else could , so I'll leave it at almost. Just not the time or place for protests. Plenty of other opportunities to do so outside of the job. In other words, in your view, they can protest only when and where hardly anyone is paying attention. Got it. They aren’t protesting during the game; they are protesting during a compelled act of allegiance to something they may or may not believe in. To me, that seems like an appropriate time and place for a protest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, mannc said: In other words, in your view, they can protest only when and where hardly anyone is paying attention. Got it. They aren’t protesting during the game; they are protesting during a compelled act of allegiance to something they may or may not believe in. To me, that seems like an appropriate time and place for a protest. Pretty much. It's not just my view though, it's the NFL's. Remember, we're talking about a business here. I don't really care if they believe in the " compelled" act of allegiance or not. If they don't, they can now stay inside so it's hardly compelled. I do know that I ( and others) don't believe in the crap they are spewing with their " protest". As a customer , I don't want their voice to be the only one heard when everyone is paying attention. No one else is allowed to set up shop next to them with an alternative viewpoint. It's really not the time or place for such things , and I stand by that. Why would a business want to involve themselves in such controversy? It doesn't matter if it's during the game, they are on the clock and the cameras are rolling , all too willingly to get their drivel out to the masses while they're representing a company that may not believe in that message. Edited June 4, 2018 by Boatdrinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wily Dog Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Well than perhaps I am the cynic for pointing out that his protest began only when his football career stalled. Racism certainly has not "proliferated" in this country in the less than two years since Kaepernick apparently discovered its existence. But for those who get their news and views from social media--they could be excused for thinking what you claim is true. Also, when you have 45 million in the bank, it gets real easy to fancy yourself a "clarion of the oppressed". But he's not speaking for them--this whole kneeling/sitting/standing protest is solely about players vs owners at this point. It occurred to none of these players until Kaep sat in 2016 that they should be protesting or sticking up for or doing anything at all for 'the oppressed". They actually see themselves as the oppressed, since that CBA they couldn't wait to sign in 2011 was agreed upon. I don't agree with your hypothesis that Kaepernicks career had stalled ,the 49 ers were going through a leadership change and were in effect getting old. Maybe he wasn't a fit for the niners anymore but a stalled career is because of a further calling and the lack of opportunity by NFL teams. Stay tuned for this because it isn't over. It is ridiculous to think that the protest is a player /owner thing. It is a racial protest or weren't you listening .The proliferation of racism has increased in the last two years as the president with his policies and actions supports it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Wily Dog said: I don't agree with your hypothesis that Kaepernicks career had stalled ,the 49 ers were going through a leadership change and were in effect getting old. Maybe he wasn't a fit for the niners anymore but a stalled career is because of a further calling and the lack of opportunity by NFL teams. Stay tuned for this because it isn't over. It is ridiculous to think that the protest is a player /owner thing. It is a racial protest or weren't you listening .The proliferation of racism has increased in the last two years as the president with his policies and actions supports it. Kapernick began his protest during the pre-season of the 2016 season.. Our current president wasn't sworn into office until January 20, 2017. He sat for the first three pre-season game and started kneeling during the 4th pre-season game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, Wily Dog said: I don't agree with your hypothesis that Kaepernicks career had stalled ,the 49 ers were going through a leadership change and were in effect getting old. Maybe he wasn't a fit for the niners anymore but a stalled career is because of a further calling and the lack of opportunity by NFL teams. Stay tuned for this because it isn't over. I dunno, he looked pretty terrible in 2015. https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/colin-kaepernick-49ers-start-chip-kelly-nfl-buffalo-stats-career-highlights-fantasy-101116 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Sure, let the Jets owners pay the players fine, and then let the league throw a flag after the anthem. Jets kickoff 15 yards back from normal placement to start the first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 5 hours ago, mannc said: In other words, in your view, they can protest only when and where hardly anyone is paying attention. Got it. They aren’t protesting during the game; they are protesting during a compelled act of allegiance to something they may or may not believe in. To me, that seems like an appropriate time and place for a protest. No, those players that want to protest or otherwise make their point can call a press conference for when they are not at work and use their celebrity to spread their message at that time or at other places and times. The kneeling players are protesting while at work and in front of their employer's best customers. A lot of customers don't like it so the business owners are now asking their employees not to do that while at work. Work is generally not an appropriate place or time to wage one's personal non-work related protests. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wily Dog Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Sky Diver said: Kapernick began his protest during the pre-season of the 2016 season.. Our current president wasn't sworn into office until January 20, 2017. He sat for the first three pre-season game and started kneeling during the 4th pre-season game. 1 hour ago, Tenhigh said: I dunno, he looked pretty terrible in 2015. https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/colin-kaepernick-49ers-start-chip-kelly-nfl-buffalo-stats-career-highlights-fantasy-101116 the conservatives took over congress in 2010 and the policies of the federal government changed in regard to racism with this change. Since that time it has been status quo until trumps election. Do you honestly think that the country is the same as it was before trumps election with regard to civil discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Wily Dog said: I don't agree with your hypothesis that Kaepernicks career had stalled ,the 49 ers were going through a leadership change and were in effect getting old. Maybe he wasn't a fit for the niners anymore but a stalled career is because of a further calling and the lack of opportunity by NFL teams. Stay tuned for this because it isn't over. It is ridiculous to think that the protest is a player /owner thing. It is a racial protest or weren't you listening .The proliferation of racism has increased in the last two years as the president with his policies and actions supports it. Kaepernick basically chose another career when he carried on as he did and openly stated that he would continue and would accept the consequences. Except now he doesn't like the consequences of not being able to find a football job so he is suing. Not exactly a man of his word on that one. Also, before you call anyone a racist (including our President) you had better have your facts together even from behind the veil of a computer. That's a strong accusation. If you can't back it up (and I doubt you can) don't say it. 7 minutes ago, Wily Dog said: the conservatives took over congress in 2010 and the policies of the federal government changed in regard to racism with this change. Since that time it has been status quo until trumps election. Do you honestly think that the country is the same as it was before trumps election with regard to civil discourse. So you're saying that the house and senate made changes after 2010 which were discriminatory to some races? Were they law changes and did Obama sign off on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wily Dog Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: Kaepernick basically chose another career when he carried on as he did and openly stated that he would continue and would accept the consequences. Except now he doesn't like the consequences of not being able to find a football job so he is suing. Not exactly a man of his word on that one. Also, before you call anyone a racist (including our President) you had better have your facts together even from behind the veil of a computer. That's a strong accusation. If you can't back it up (and I doubt you can) don't say it. So you're saying that the house and senate made changes after 2010 which were discriminatory to some races? Were they law changes and did Obama sign off on them? I did not say that any legislation was passed with regard to rights and i believe the senate majority leader said that he wanted Obama to be a one term president. A lot of the things that were done were by presidential executive actions which trump has reminded.. and I am done with the civics lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Wily Dog said: I don't agree with your hypothesis that Kaepernicks career had stalled ,the 49 ers were going through a leadership change and were in effect getting old. Maybe he wasn't a fit for the niners anymore but a stalled career is because of a further calling and the lack of opportunity by NFL teams. Stay tuned for this because it isn't over. It is ridiculous to think that the protest is a player /owner thing. It is a racial protest or weren't you listening .The proliferation of racism has increased in the last two years as the president with his policies and actions supports it. He had been replaced, in consecutive seasons, by Blane Gabbert. That is the definition of a stalled career. You couldn't be more wrong there. As for "proliferation of racism" having "increased" over the past 2 years--it's a baseless claim. Only the exposure of racists acts, through social media, has increased---and it began well before Kaepernick decided to tell us all about the racism he suddenly was upset enough with to sit down during the anthem. Perhaps you are a younger poster and it seems to you, because you see events recorded on social media (that we all have seen as well), that racism is "proliferating". But, sadly, this is not true. It has existed, without video documentation, for generations. Claiming that the election of a mental dwarf like Trump has stimulated some latent racism in the rest of America is naive and very telling of the current young adult generation's lack of firm grasp of this country's history.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 20 minutes ago, Wily Dog said: I did not say that any legislation was passed with regard to rights and i believe the senate majority leader said that he wanted Obama to be a one term president. A lot of the things that were done were by presidential executive actions which trump has reminded.. and I am done with the civics lesson. You suggested racism was a post-2010 policy of the government, and cited a republican (presumably) majority leader was hoping the democrat president was gone after his first term. I don't ever recall leadership from any party publically cheering on a president from the opposite party to win reelection. I thought that was the point of being from a different party. Its like the cereal wars: Captain Crunch isn't out telling kids to buy up all the Count Chokula, but I don't think that makes him a racist. Worst....civics lesson....ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) 90% of the evening news reporting about Trump is negative, yet his job approval rating is going up. People are tuning out the mainstream media as they realize it is a propaganda arm of the DNC. Edited June 5, 2018 by Sky Diver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 7 hours ago, mannc said: In other words, in your view, they can protest only when and where hardly anyone is paying attention. Got it. They aren’t protesting during the game; they are protesting during a compelled act of allegiance to something they may or may not believe in. To me, that seems like an appropriate time and place for a protest. Since not one of them thought this was worth "believing" in before 2016, it is as easy to question their allegiance to their current "protest". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wily Dog Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: You suggested racism was a post-2010 policy of the government, and cited a republican (presumably) majority leader was hoping the democrat president was gone after his first term. I don't ever recall leadership from any party publically cheering on a president from the opposite party to win reelection. I thought that was the point of being from a different party. Its like the cereal wars: Captain Crunch isn't out telling kids to buy up all the Count Chokula, but I don't think that makes him a racist. Worst....civics lesson....ever. 41 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: 90% of the evening news reporting about Trump is negative, yet his job approval rating is going up. People are tuning out the mainstream media as they realize it is a propaganda arm of the DNC. 35 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Since not one of them thought this was worth "believing" in before 2016, it is as easy to question their allegiance to their current "protest". i am sure now that a civics lesson would be a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 45 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Since not one of them thought this was worth "believing" in before 2016, it is as easy to question their allegiance to their current "protest". So by not protesting sooner, they waived their right to protest? Interesting theory. In your opinion, when would the protests have had to begin in order to be timely? Would you support their right to protest if the protests had begun in 2014? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: You suggested racism was a post-2010 policy of the government, and cited a republican (presumably) majority leader was hoping the democrat president was gone after his first term. I don't ever recall leadership from any party publically cheering on a president from the opposite party to win reelection. I thought that was the point of being from a different party. Its like the cereal wars: Captain Crunch isn't out telling kids to buy up all the Count Chokula, but I don't think that makes him a racist. Worst....civics lesson....ever. The point he was trying to make I think is that the obstruction by the Republicans after the '10 elections was unprecedented creating this gridlock that still endures today because the idea of working with the other side on common ground won't win you reelection. You're right about the racism though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 [This is an automated response]The thread is no longer focused on football-related topics and therefore the discussion has been closed. General discussions of politics, elections, mainstream media etc, may take place in PPP or in thousands of other forums on the internet. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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