oldmanfan Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, john wawrow said: So you’re suggesting there was no element of luck involved. Not one iota. Out of thousands of people who have geology degrees, Terry just happened to have the knowledge to know exactly where to drill. And on the first shot no less. Look, I’m not discounting the hard work, skill and endless hours it took Terry to build his business. That said, this suggestion if there being no luck involved is both naive and preposterous. As with anything, there was an element of luck and being in the right place at the right time to this. But Robot seems to claim that simply having a geology degree is all it took. Puh-leeze jw I find it sad that a professional journalist such as yourself stoops to this level. The post that was responded to said Pegula's fortune was all luck. When you have a doctorate in geology and spend your professional life working in that area is it just luck you figure out fracking and where to do so? No. Is there some luck? Sure. It was not all luck as one suggested. And nowhere did I say luck had nothing to do with it. But there's an old saying that goes like luck favors the prepared mind. Again I always appreciated your journalism. But I note here you did not answer the question I posed: namely was the snarky writing style your former colleagues used professional journalism to you? Rather you have chosen to go into some hyperbolic either/or slant on luck and ignored the question. Sadly it seems you believe that sarcasm and attempting to belittle those who do not agree with you is appropriate. I met Larry Felser once and read him for years. I suggest you go back and read some of his stuff for some perspective. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I find it sad that a professional journalist such as yourself stoops to this level. The post that was responded to said Pegula's fortune was all luck. When you have a doctorate in geology and spend your professional life working in that area is it just luck you figure out fracking and where to do so? No. Is there some luck? Sure. It was not all luck as one suggested. And nowhere did I say luck had nothing to do with it. But there's an old saying that goes like luck favors the prepared mind. Again I always appreciated your journalism. But I note here you did not answer the question I posed: namely was the snarky writing style your former colleagues used professional journalism to you? Rather you have chosen to go into some hyperbolic either/or slant on luck and ignored the question. Sadly it seems you believe that sarcasm and attempting to belittle those who do not agree with you is appropriate. I met Larry Felser once and read him for years. I suggest you go back and read some of his stuff for some perspective. I grew up reading Mike Downey, one fine acerbic sports columnist. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Lurker said: I know Elmer a bit and he's a great guy. And while I agree with 90% of his thoughts on the Big Picture, I do differ on two things: "After a Bills game, in particular, the audience may not have agreed with them, but it wanted to know what they thought." "Negativity also happened to be honesty." First, it appears a growing number of readers did NOT want to know what they thought, despite the heightened media presence on WGRZ and the BN video links. Web clicks and other metrics were likely trending downward, hence the "bad for business" comment (despite the innuendo of the Pegula's involvement, which is a bit of tin foil haberdashery to me). Second, honesty happens to be honesty, whether its positive or negative. Too often, Sully and Buckster set up straw men to knock down, excluded other valid arguments or, worst of all, blew in the wind by not owning up to positions they advocated for previously when those same positions later did not pan out. That's not honest, it's lazy and contemptuous of the readers who did remember the positions they took... You don't think people wanted to know what Sully thought? Are you !@#$ing kidding me?? You could set your watch by one of our resident Sully haters starting a thread about Sully's opinion here the morning following a game. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, john wawrow said: I grew up reading Mike Downey, one fine acerbic sports columnist. jw Still refuse to answer my question I see. I'll write it off to your emotions about your two former colleagues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, john wawrow said: I grew up reading Mike Downey, one fine acerbic sports columnist. jw LOL.... https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/Theres-One-Less-Writer-In-Chicago-To-Hate.html "Which is why I didn't like Downey all that much. His writing and opinions always came off as an attempt to rile people up or make them wonder what Mike was smoking when he wrote it. It's as though he never realized that in a town like this, filled with millions of smart sports fans with differing opinions, all he had to do was express his actual thoughts and he'd have gotten all the attention he needed. He didn't, though, and that's why in a few years I don't think many people will even remember who he was." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalftimeAdjustment Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just because there are many board posters whlith worse attitudes and absolutely terrible ideas, when compared to Sullivan or Gleason, does not mean they were the best choices at TBN. I don't have the level of disdain that some posters do and I wish they would rein it in. Having said that, I also wonder if some of the problem came from the format and need to fill in a certain size of article. I often found Sullivan's columns to start with noting whatever good thing might have happened that week, then spend time returning to the "big picture us bad and they aren't the Patriots" discussion. Perhaps if there was less required content he would have been able to improve on the signal to noise ratio. As it was the team has absolutely been a mess and there was reason to be critical; the problem in my view was endless repetition of the same points (or at least it seemed that way to me). Sullivan wasn't always wrong, I think he was right about Dareus for example and the culture of the team for many years but I got the impression there was nothing they could do to convince him that improvement was possible, at the end. Gleason just had a tendency to sometimes go overboard with lines of attack, really. I didn't make the connection to the same degree as with Jerry but maybe because I follow the Sabres less. Honestly both teams have been a horror show for a long time and did not improve when the Pegulas took over. The Sabres do not even show any real sign of improvement now either. But still I don't see how telling fans "Nice win, but it is false hope, the team still is terrible" after every positive occurrence is a good way to build readership. Once I know what you have to say with certainty before I read your column I guess I get tired of bothering. Maybe others felt the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I find it sad that a professional journalist such as yourself stoops to this level. The post that was responded to said Pegula's fortune was all luck. When you have a doctorate in geology and spend your professional life working in that area is it just luck you figure out fracking and where to do so? No. Is there some luck? Sure. It was not all luck as one suggested. And nowhere did I say luck had nothing to do with it. But there's an old saying that goes like luck favors the prepared mind. Again I always appreciated your journalism. But I note here you did not answer the question I posed: namely was the snarky writing style your former colleagues used professional journalism to you? Rather you have chosen to go into some hyperbolic either/or slant on luck and ignored the question. Sadly it seems you believe that sarcasm and attempting to belittle those who do not agree with you is appropriate. I met Larry Felser once and read him for years. I suggest you go back and read some of his stuff for some perspective. Man you suck at TSW. TURRRRiBLE. With TBN letting go of a few folks they found dispensable perhaps(definitely) we should follow suit and do a bit of culling as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, BADOLBILZ said: Man you suck at TSW. TURRRRiBLE. With TBN letting go of a few folks they found dispensable perhaps(definitely) we should follow suit and do a bit of culling as well. If you could put this in English I'd be happy to respond. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: You seem to have your opinions formed. As for Terry's wealth, he has a degree in geology and an understanding of where to find trapped gas. So it was hardly winning the lottery. But don't let me alter your opinion. His degree is in petroleum and natural gas engineering from Penn State. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Lurker said: LOL.... https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/Theres-One-Less-Writer-In-Chicago-To-Hate.html "Which is why I didn't like Downey all that much. His writing and opinions always came off as an attempt to rile people up or make them wonder what Mike was smoking when he wrote it. It's as though he never realized that in a town like this, filled with millions of smart sports fans with differing opinions, all he had to do was express his actual thoughts and he'd have gotten all the attention he needed. He didn't, though, and that's why in a few years I don't think many people will even remember who he was." And rather than pull up one of his columns, particularly from his Detroit Free Press days, you come up with this, someone else’s opinion rather than forming your own. Somehow, this perfectly fits this entire thread. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 47 minutes ago, john wawrow said: So you’re suggesting there was no element of luck involved. Not one iota. John, c'mon, you're better than this. The original contention objected to was the insinuation that Terry Pegula's wealth was "just dumb luck" There is considerable distance between the contention that someone's success (accompanied by a form of geology degree and some considerable business acumen) is NOT "just dumb luck" and the claim that "there was no element of luck involved. Not one iota". You make your living with words. You know this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, john wawrow said: I grew up reading Mike Downey, one fine acerbic sports columnist. jw Just read a couple of his columns. Goes up to what I consider the edge. Reminds me a bit of my local guy Bob Kravitz, whom I like a lot. But seems like Downey did not go for personal insults as much as what I saw Sullivan and Gleason do. And again there were many times I liked the two especially when they were not writing on the two teams. They each are good writers, which made it all the more perplexing to me that they would lower themselves so often when writing about the Bills or Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 34 minutes ago, K-9 said: Yes, Marrone had an opt out clause and Malarkey resigned. In neither case did the Bills exercise a buy out. I’m a stickler for details, what can I say. Maybe the one detail we can agree with is that both coaches unexpectedly walked away from the job they had to the surprise of the organization. In both cases it had to do with the way the franchise was being run. And In both cases the coaches initiated their departures. http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2289987 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalftimeAdjustment Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, JohnC said: Maybe the one detail we can agree with is that both coaches unexpectedly walked away from the job they had to the surprise of the organization. In both cases it had to do with the way the franchise was being run. And In both cases the coaches initiated their departures. http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2289987 Over the last 20 years has this occurred to any other NFL team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Man you suck at TSW. TURRRRiBLE. With TBN letting go of a few folks they found dispensable perhaps(definitely) we should follow suit and do a bit of culling as well. dont agree with this at all. Thought his response well reasoned. I think there is a correlation between the defending and praising the triumvirate at the BN that is/was Harrington/Gleason/Sullivan.. by traditional print journalists ..and the majority of the people who would be reading/buying their content and are celebrating their departure. Clear disconnect, and maybe a hold to tight on the past 1 minute ago, john wawrow said: And rather than pull up one of his columns, particularly from his Detroit Free Press days, you come up with this, someone else’s opinion rather than forming your own. Somehow, this perfectly fits this entire thread. jw Bull Poop John..just pure Bullpoop. This thread is an open exchange of ideas, and just cause someone has one other than yours does not make it garbage. As I stated above, as much as you all may not want to believe it, the organizations you work for have to make money. And when someone is preventing that..they gots to be gone. I am in sales..I have been fired twice in 30 years as for whatever reason I was not producing for that company..Sully and Bucky were not producing for this company..plain and simple. I had excuses too...theirs suck just as much as mine did 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: John, c'mon, you're better than this. The original contention objected to was the insinuation that Terry Pegula's wealth was "just dumb luck" There is considerable distance between the contention that someone's success (accompanied by a form of geology degree and some considerable business acumen) is NOT "just dumb luck" and the claim that "there was no element of luck involved. Not one iota". You make your living with words. You know this. No. I read the post. At no point did it say “just dumb luck.” But proceed .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 49 minutes ago, john wawrow said: So you’re suggesting there was no element of luck involved. Not one iota. Out of thousands of people who have geology degrees, Terry just happened to have the knowledge to know exactly where to drill. And on the first shot no less. Look, I’m not discounting the hard work, skill and endless hours it took Terry to build his business. That said, this suggestion if there being no luck involved is both naive and preposterous. As with anything, there was an element of luck and being in the right place at the right time to this. But Robot seems to claim that simply having a geology degree is all it took. Puh-leeze jw This question - Pegula skill or Pegula luck? - is interesting. From what I can find, I'd say it's probably on the order of 30% skill, 70% luck. The luck part seems to come not from "dumb luck" as we'd generally consider it. No, there was definite skill involved in knowing what land/subsurface rights to acquire. And that skill can easily translate into riches. But usually those riches are on the order of tens of millions of dollars, or even hundreds of millions. Not billions. That's where the luck comes in. Plus, think about it: you could be Pegula's equally skilled twin, and you could have acquired (a long time ago) subsurface rights all over the same Marcellus shale field but on the NY side, and that would have turned out poorly given the politics of NY vs. PA. As for Kim: well, I just don't know. She may be a talented manager of people; she may have just married well. There's really nothing out there publicly to reach any kind of informed opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, john wawrow said: No. I read the post. At no point did it say “just dumb luck.” But proceed .... Did you now? Here is the original post. I believe you will find that exact phrase contained in it " Have you read the column wherein Sully insinuated that Terry's wealth was just dumb luck" Now, you may feel that was a misrepresentation of Sullivan's original column - and that would be a point worth making. But to come in here and switch the contention from "just dumb luck" to "no luck involved, not one iota" is at best, a gross misrepresentation of the posts to which you're responding. I won't continue, because either you're too upset to be quite rational in your approach, or for reasons of your own, you're unwilling to ack a point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, john wawrow said: No. I read the post. At no point did it say “just dumb luck.” But proceed .... Jesus John, wth are you even talking about? . i don't care how Terry made his money, he made it. Seems like you all resent that for some reason Besides that,Josh came in here and heard it loud clear..his would be customers hated these guys. And I am sure he hears that from the mountaintops. You may think we are all idiots, but we pay the bills. Christ, i even cancelled the day after the loser column..and the CS rep who I spoke with said..yep, we got a ton of those today. These guys hurt business..plain and simple. Edited May 31, 2018 by plenzmd1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: dont agree with this at all. Thought his response well reasoned. He misquoted the poster that JW was responding to. That pointed a finger at JW for something he didn't say...........so at that point his take was so wrong it didn't deserve a dignified response. OMF is bad at TSW. Now he's got you chasing his bad take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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