National Anthem Solution

[MAJBobby]

2 hours ago, Bruce_Stools said:

No sir, that is not correct.  If my boss says jump, I don’t even ask how high.  I jump or I’m fired.  If my boss says “I need you to take your lunch an hour late today”, I’m FORCED to oblige.  If my boss says something like “Here at company x, we have never and will not ever tolerate you kneeling during the national anthem. If you do choose to to kneel, exercising your own right to freedom of speech, our bottom line goes down and you will be asked to leave”, I will make damn sure I’m not caught kneeling during the national anthem if I value my job. 

 

Any other questions?

 

And I, again, have ask you about your job.  Can you do whatever you please at anytime when you are on the clock???

 

How does this not make sense to people??????

So still no Forced Patriotism. I see no Anthem. No pledge at your work. No Forced Patriotism to the Nation at your job i see

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Good question.  Pretty much as I read it,  it was so negotiated.  If it isn't specified in the CBA that the NFL Clubs can't, then they can:

 

Section 3 Management Rights:
The NFL Clubs maintain and reserve the right to manage and direct their operations in any manner whatsoever, except as specifically limited by the provisions of this Agreement.

 

 

 

 

Such a limited statement with zero context. 

 

But hey there was a fake vote that was i guess unanimous even though within 24 hours of said vote teams themselves going against said unanimous vote See Jets 

[mrags]

10 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

So, he’s wrong for having an opinion that’s different than yours? I believe his point was that he saw no disrespect, no point was made about the new NFL policy except by you.

You are the one that took offense to this apparently.

 

apparently you can’t deal with employees following the rules of their employers either. 

[mannc]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I worked at a large bank that required permission to do any media interviews. They had people for specifically that. THAT was their job.  Anything political and I’d be sent packing immediately. I don’t know where that might be in writing, but I wouldn’t even ask to read it - it’s just so obvious that it I’d just get up and go.....if I were ever that stupid. On my own time, I could have all the causes I wished, but NOT representing my employer.  

Great.  That’s your experience.  It doesn’t mean all workplaces work that way (or should work that way).  Why do you so strenuously object to union-protected employees expressing their views in this way?

4 hours ago, Bruce_Stools said:

I have forced “to stay in line and do what the f*** I’m told or I lose my job”

 

How about you?

Not me.

 

 Because you have to shut the hell up or be fired at your job, does that mean those rules should apply in all workplaces?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

Great.  That’s your experience.  It doesn’t mean all workplaces work that way (or should work that way).  Why do you so strenuously object to union-protected employees expressing their views in this way?

 

If it's the NFL players you're referencing as "union-protected employees expressing their views in this way", why do you think

1) that employees, union-protected or not, should have the right to protest on the job, on their employer's premises, on their employer's time?

Union picket lines are manned outside the employer's property, for example, because even union-protected employees don't have a legal right to co-opt their employer's property for their protests.

2) that the union contract, the CBA, protects the rights of the players to protest on the job, on their employer's premises, on their employer's time?

At best, this is muddy.  You can bet the NFLPA will be looking for a basis to challenge the new policy, and thus, that the NFL's own lawyers were doing their own comb-through before the policy was released and think they're good.

[Augie]

27 minutes ago, mannc said:

Great.  That’s your experience.  It doesn’t mean all workplaces work that way (or should work that way).  Why do you so strenuously object to union-protected employees expressing their views in this way?

 

You are trying to put words into my mouth. I’m not strenuously objecting to anything. It is what it is. I think most people are missing the point COMPLETELY because they have their own agendas.  I have said repeatedly that it doesn’t matter what you or I think. The only thing that matters is what is in writing in the CBA, players contracts or other enforceable agreements. My OPINION is that while you are at work your political, religious, social, etc. opinions should be kept to yourself. If I’m an owner I work to fix that if the CBA doesn’t cover it already.  They have already shelled out about $90 mil to correct this. 

 

You are free to do your own thing on your own time. I welcome that! It’s America! That’s what it’s all about. But don’t kid yourself, this will be negotiated to go away, and the players will get something else in return.  If the players DO currently have this right,  they will give this up for something they value more....something that benefits them more directly. 

 

 

. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Augie

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

So still no Forced Patriotism. I see no Anthem. No pledge at your work. No Forced Patriotism to the Nation at your job i see

 

Playing of the National Anthem is not a regular part of the job, for most of us.  It is a regular part of the job, for football players, since it's played before every game. 

 

Maybe, when something is part of the regular job day, it has to be addressed, but if it's not, it doesn't - just a thought?   I have worked a job that required me to wear personal protective equipment over steel toed shoes.  By analogy, I should be holding that up to the players: "Still no forced lab goggles and forced steel toed shoes!" even though it's not part of their regular job and so not relevant.

 

23 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Such a limited statement with zero context.

 

Here you go, find all the context you like: https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

[ChicagoRic]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/09/28/standing-for-the-national-anthem-does-not-make-you-a-patriot-heres-what-does/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c18267261faa

 

[Bruce_Stools]

51 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

So still no Forced Patriotism. I see no Anthem. No pledge at your work. No Forced Patriotism to the Nation at your job i see

 

Such a limited statement with zero context. 

 

But hey there was a fake vote that was i guess unanimous even though within 24 hours of said vote teams themselves going against said unanimous vote See Jets 

Dude, they are employees. FACT. They are on the clock.FACT. They have zero right to freedom of speech while at work. FACT. 

 

The FACT that you cannot connect the dots has me puzzled.  Starting to wonder if you’re trolling or really not into facts.

39 minutes ago, mannc said:

Great.  That’s your experience.  It doesn’t mean all workplaces work that way (or should work that way).  Why do you so strenuously object to union-protected employees expressing their views in this way?

Not me.

 

 Because you have to shut the hell up or be fired at your job, does that mean those rules should apply in all workplaces?

I didn’t say I had to shut the hell up. I have to follow the rules like everyone else. Unless you’re the boss, you don’t decide which rules you want to follow.

 

I simply stated that I follow the rules because I value my job and yes that does apply in all workplaces.  Try coming in 3 hours late while drunk and tell your boss to f*ck off.  Still think you’re untouchable??  That would probably be a very humbling experience for you. Then again, maybe not.  

 

If players take advantage of the stage they’re on for anything other than what their bosses allow, they should be reprimanded or let go.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Bruce_Stools

[vorpma]

Regardless of all opinions stated, come December 2018 the NFL's bottom line is going to decide this! And if it alienates a large segment of its fan base it will lose fans and ratings again; that is a fact.

[Augie]

Just now, vorpma said:

Regardless of all opinions stated, come December 2018 the NFL's bottom line is going to decide this! And if it alienates a large segment of its fan base it will lose fans and ratings again; that is a fact.

 

And then even the players lose money (as a % of overall revenue). I really don’t care, even if I dislike the concept of an employee abusing his position. But I did have a friend at the Bengals game tailgate last year who refused to go in, even with a free ticket, and wouldn’t watch on TV either due to the protests. It surprised me, frankly. I don’t know how many of those people are out there, but it’s not zero. 

[Dr.Sack]

The NFL is all about protecting their image. Expect banning players from staying in the locker room next year, & a concession stand shut down for 5 minutes to honor Old Glory! 

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

The NFL is all about protecting their image. Expect banning players from staying in the locker room next year, & a concession stand shut down for 5 minutes to honor Old Glory! 

 

If there is anything they hold above their image, its the almighty dollar. I suspect the collection of money at concession stands will continue in full force!  ?

[SinceThe70s]

8 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

If there is anything they hold above their image, its the almighty dollar. I suspect the collection of money at concession stands will continue in full force!  ?

 

IMO this is spot on. As is a previous comment you made that ultimately if the league loses money than the players will too.

[Augie]

 

 

That actually makes me wonder....how much  cash does an NFL Team rake in in a mere 5 minutes period right before the game begins? I’m pretty sure I could be without a mortgage after 5 minutes of beer and hotdog sales. 

 

 

 

 

. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Augie

[H2o]

I just wish people would stfu about the whole thing. I have felt that way since a backup QB decided to make a spectacle of things by drawing attention to himself, more than likely because he was told to do so, and then claim it was for injustice. Is the world a jacked up place? In ways and at times most definitely. It wasn't for Colin though who was raised by white parents that adopted, loved, and raised him. ESPN loves this sh*t though and it gives the wonderful platform of the internet to jackasses like Jamele Hill to spew their own racial prejudice in the form of a "story".  This is that political bs they've become less watched for, on top of the fact their programming/personalities have severely declined. They love to try to divide us, which is why I'd prefer them (the media and the NFL and Trump) to stfu and let people do whatever it is they feel the need to do. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by H2o

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Dr.Sack said:

The NFL is all about protecting their image. Expect banning players from staying in the locker room next year, & a concession stand shut down for 5 minutes to honor Old Glory! 

 

Anything can happen but I don't expect this.  They make a lot of money from the concession stands right before kickoff.

 

I'm also going to guess that the stay-in-the-locker-room option was suggested by their legal team

[theRalph]

Here's a question: How many of the people against players for kneeling do themselves fail to remove their hat during the anthem..like you're supposed to at Church.  I care about the hats the same way that these folks care about the kneeling... And then, I don't. I might glance at a hat, but it really does not affect my purpose for being at the GAME.

 

And for that matter, nor do I think the majority of NFL fans really give a frozen NHL Hockey puck whether players kneel or not.  

It's really not an issue. I kneel to the Lord Jesus Christ... And the Bishop wears a really cool hat.

 

If you hate the kneeling, it's probably something else you hate and you're taking it out on the kneeling. NFL players pay a lot of income tax. The Constitution gives them and, us all, rights to do whatever we choose within the law. Its not like they're standing there shouting "f*** y** to the universe. But, FCC Rules aside, they could if they so chose. 

 

The the NFLPA would protest, but we need a 24 game season, so we can avoid having to spend words on this issue and get back to football. At what point would Josh Allen start in such a season??

[Rob's House]

What irks me the most about this "movement" has nothing to do with patriotism, the flag, or the anthem. The day I get my panties in a wad over some over privileged, semi-educated dip **** who wants to play the victim, remind me to go kill myself.

 

What I find most irritating is the sense of entitlement. These asswipes have a huge platform, that far outweighs that of most of their intellectual superiors, due to the celebrity status they enjoy by virtue of the fact thay they're in the NFL.

 

But for some of them that's not enough. They must also be permitted to shove it down our throats while they're at work. And our soy-based, pop culture media says "right on."

 

Apparently,  as long as you're part of an aggrieved minority group (even if you've never personally experienced "the struggle" of that group) you must be unconditionally permitted to "peacefully protest" anywhere and everywhere without risk of criticism. 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Rob's House said:

What irks me the most about this "movement" has nothing to do with patriotism, the flag, or the anthem. The day I get my panties in a wad over some over privileged, semi-educated dip **** who wants to play the victim, remind me to go kill myself.

 

What I find most irritating is the sense of entitlement. These asswipes have a huge platform, that far outweighs that of most of their intellectual superiors, due to the celebrity status they enjoy by virtue of the fact thay they're in the NFL.

 

But for some of them that's not enough. They must also be permitted to shove it down our throats while they're at work. And our soy-based, pop culture media says "right on."

 

Apparently,  as long as you're part of an aggrieved minority group (even if you've never personally experienced "the struggle" of that group) you must be unconditionally permitted to "peacefully protest" anywhere and everywhere without risk of criticism. 

Quoting for truth in to ensure that it might be seen just one more time

 

PS, I set a reminder on my phone just in case for you. 

[Tuco]

10 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

So again What other Employer FORCES participation in the National Anthem?

 

What other employer gets money from the DOD?

 

But let's reflect. Long before kneeling for the anthem became a thing, standing along the sidelines in a uniform line with helmets under their arms was a standard practice. Never mind the often recited reports about how nobody stood for the anthem before 9/11. That's bull ****. It just wasn't a league wide rule until then. But lots of teams had a team rule that required the players to be on the field and stand in a prescribed manner while the flag was displayed and the anthem played. I attended lots of games before 9/11. Every single one of them had the players out and standing respectfully.

 

And you know what? Never, at any point until Colin Kaepernick decided to refuse to show pride in the flag (his words) did any player ever think of adhering to that team rule as "forced patriotism." What they considered it was part of their job. Their contracts explicitly state that the players will act  in a certain manner since they acknowledge the importance of the teams' and the game of football's public image. 

 

For all those years team rules requiring players to be on the field and stand respectfully for the flag were considered no more or less "forced" than any other team rule that has nothing to do with the game. Team rules requiring players to wear a suit and tie while travelling to road games were always adhered to. Nobody made a 1st amendment stink about it. Team rules requiring players to take turns signing autographs during camp were adhered to. Team rules requiring grown adults to be in their hotel rooms by 10:00 PM on game nights were adhered to, or consequences suffered. All these and many more (including standing respectfully) were simply considered standard practices agreed to when accepting employment.

 

But okay, somehow standing respectfully has become an issue that now has people comparing this so called "forced patriotism" to Nazi Germany and all sorts of other things. And many like to point to the article stating the league received $5.4 million from the DOD and saying ever since then the players have been "forced" to show their patriotism. How dare the league subject them to something that's actually been going on for decades?

 

But here's the real rub. There's a thing called the collective bargaining agreement. In that agreement, along with  numerous references that give the league and teams the ability to impose rules like standing respectfully, there's also a guideline pertaining to what's known as "all revenue." All revenue means just that. The amount of money guaranteed to go to the players in the form of wages is based on a percentage of all revenues received by the league (minus, of course, a certain number of qualifying items that are specified therein).

 

So in case we've lost anybody, this means that (roughly) 47% of that often quoted figure of $5.4 million the league received from the DOD, or, $2.538 million of those DOD dollars, was earmarked and made its way into the players' paychecks. That fact, along with the numerous references in the CBA regarding the players' agreement to certain rules, and the fact that for decades the practice of standing respectfully, if for no other reason than the public image of the league, means the teams and league absolutely have the ability to enforce such rules. And any quibbling over the subject matter of the protests, or the constitutionality of the protests, or the fairly recent practice of referring to standing respectfully as "forced patriotism," are all inconsequential.

 

Thank you. Good night.