Fadingpain Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: Good job making no argumentative points at all. Don't stop wearing your soft helmet! You're still an idiot. Go read a brief history of the USA, the constitution, and the Bill of Rights, and report back. PS: Would love to know your age level, educational level, income level, and net worth level. I suspect all are low. 1 hour ago, Clemfield2622 said: I can't imagine what it's like to be the type of person who cares about this 1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said: The NFL is a private organization who grants their employees complete freedom to conform to the rules of their jobs and make a fortune, or be unemployed. Your NBA narrative is an exact replication of every whiny media member who seem to think the world owes everyone something just for being alive. So, to your point, yes the NBA has done an amazing job of making a commercial out of who their players date and what their players wear off the court, but that's pandering to the TMZ generation, which if you could see past your own nose is not a "wider audience range" 1 hour ago, Infinitum said: Nice, they finally did something. About time! 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: It was never a thing for me. I know as many ex-service people who thought the flag protects you right to protest as those who didn't. Bottom line is the owners own the team and make the rules. Might be kind of a sill rule but doesn't matter. DC Tom says: You're all idiots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: I cut out the rest, because the rest is a discussion best left to PPP, and I like to think that I know the best place to rebut the rest is over there. But this. This is the point. This was the whole point as to why protesting began. It's that there is a belief that is fairly pervasive: that if you do anything, ANYTHING to make police feel that you are not 100% in compliance, they have the right to kill you without due process. That can include a legal gun owner being ordered to hand over his license and registration, and then being shot while going for it because he informed the officer that he had a gun in the car. It means that selling loose cigarettes while never taking an offensive action is a suitable excuse for you to be choked to death while you beg for mercy. You can agree or disagree about the role of police, and how much authority and latitude they should be allowed, and how much of a benefit of a doubt they should be given, but if you look at those situations and go "yeah, those dead civilians, they're the real problem" you are screwed up in the head at a level that I consider terrifying. And yet, somehow, out of the millions of interactions people have with the police every day, only 940 males were shot in 2017. The police do not have the right to kill people without due process, but they do have the right to defend themselves. Edited May 23, 2018 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 25 minutes ago, LeviF91 said: I'm genuinely curious, how is allowing players to sit out the anthem completely forcing patriotism on them? And what does a workplace code of conduct have to do with "taking away freedom?" Because the entire point of playing the anthem is a phony show of patriotism wrapped in the flag when it's purely an NFL money grab that they are forcing the players on the field to participate in with one owner saying they could be fined for standing with a raised fist or interlocking arms. It's pure BS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Fadingpain said: You're still an idiot. Go read a brief history of the USA, the constitution, and the Bill of Rights, and report back. PS: Would love to know your age level, educational level, income level, and net worth level. I suspect all are low. I suspect that you know nothing and are wrong on a number of levels. I would never tell you my income level and net worth. I will tell you that I will be able to retire at the age of 52 if I so choose. Life will be gravy afterward. PS - name calling makes you sound like the idiot, not me. Keep it up dipshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: And if one is upset with the police then protest in front of police stations. And then be accused of hating policemen and women and advocating police killings? Sounds like a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, eball said: I'm not a kneeler. And when the anti-kneelers complain about how sacred the anthem is they're being hypocrites. That doesn't make them a hypocrite though. 9 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: I cut out the rest, because the rest is a discussion best left to PPP, and I like to think that I know the best place to rebut the rest is over there. But this. This is the point. This was the whole point as to why protesting began. It's that there is a belief that is fairly pervasive: that if you do anything, ANYTHING to make police feel that you are not 100% in compliance, they have the right to kill you without due process. That can include a legal gun owner being ordered to hand over his license and registration, and then being shot while going for it because he informed the officer that he had a gun in the car. It means that selling loose cigarettes while never taking an offensive action is a suitable excuse for you to be choked to death while you beg for mercy. You can agree or disagree about the role of police, and how much authority and latitude they should be allowed, and how much of a benefit of a doubt they should be given, but if you look at those situations and go "yeah, those dead civilians, they're the real problem" you are screwed up in the head at a level that I consider terrifying. As pointed out, than how do millions of police operations and activities happen daily without thousands of dead black people? Your argument is just invalid. The entire premise of this argument is retarded and a social cause meant to distract and divide us as a culture between those with double digits between those with triple digits. It's...just plain horseshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 To me there are two aspects to the owners' decision. First is the issue of legality. Can the owners do this without infringing First Amendment rights? Idk the answer to that question myself and I'm not taking the opinion of amateur constitutional lawyers on a message board as gospel either. If the owners are exercising their legitimate private law rights with no infringement of the players basic personal rights then so be it. The second question though is whether one agrees with the owners' decision, whether it is lawful or not. That of course is simply a matter of individual opinion/political persuasion. Personally I disagree with the decision but that's just me. Regardless I doubt that we have heard the last of this now. Might have been better to just leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Clemfield2622 said: I can't imagine what it's like to be the type of person who cares about this And I can't imagine being so oblivious. People have opinions, sometimes strong ones when it comes to patriotic or unpatriotic behavior. Lots of people care and they are fine people who are entitled to their opinions one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: You're still an idiot. Go read a brief history of the USA, the constitution, and the Bill of Rights, and report back. PS: Would love to know your age level, educational level, income level, and net worth level. I suspect all are low. DC Tom says: You're all idiots. Ad hominem fallacies (your apparent argumentative style of choice) are just another failure on the debate front. Would suggest you go look that up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Because the entire point of playing the anthem is a phony show of patriotism wrapped in the flag when it's purely an NFL money grab. It's pure BS. That's what bothers me the most. I hate blatant hypocrisy and phony bs and I have less and less tolerance for it the older I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: You're still an idiot. Go read a brief history of the USA, the constitution, and the Bill of Rights, and report back. Well educate us already, what do these things say about workplace codes of conduct at private companies? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: This is total BS but totally predictable. You have to love the USA! Greed and Money always come first. Always has, always will. Freedom of speech? All the veterans who were mamed, psychologically wounded forever, and killed to keep that right alive and well in the USA? F--- 'em! That's what the NFL just told you. Hopefully the players will simply modify their form of protest. Stay standing, but do something else. You've got that completely backwards, buddy. By your logic it was okay for protesters to spit on Vietnam vets when they arrived home, because, you know, freedom of speech/expression and all. I think snowflakes like you and the OP are completely comfortable being on your knees. Safe places for sniveling $hits like the two of you are dwindling. You're not the only one with a voice anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: And then be accused of hating policemen and women and advocating police killings? Sounds like a great idea. What do you care what anyone accuses you of? Only you know your true beliefs, so what does it matter what anyone else thinks about you? My philosophy has always been kind of like Popeye's. "I y'am what I y'am and that's all what I y'am." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Because the entire point of playing the anthem is a phony show of patriotism wrapped in the flag when it's purely an NFL money grab that they are forcing the players on the field to participate in with one owner saying they could be fined for standing with a raised fist or interlocking arms. It's pure BS. You're moving the goalposts again. My point was that the players aren't being forced to be patriotic. They are welcome to sit in the locker room without consequence. Whether it's a hypocritical money grab or not (I don't necessarily disagree with you there) has nothing to do with that one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, LeviF91 said: Well educate us already, what do these things say about workplace codes of conduct at private companies? They (of course) say nothing. Just another straw man fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, xsoldier54 said: What do you care what anyone accuses you of? Only you know your true beliefs, so what does it matter what anyone else thinks about you? My philosophy has always been kind of like Popeye's. "I y'am what I y'am and that's all what I y'am." Me? I don't, but an athlete has a lot to lose when they're intentions are hijacked and turned against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, LEBills said: How bout we just get rid of the anthem before football games altogether? Making the national anthem at sports events into a holy ceremony, unfurling huge American flags, and having the military at every game, with fighter jets doing flyovers, is something that was not done before the last forty years, post-Vietnam. It makes the U.S. look like a militaristic state. I'm happy to have the anthem before the games, but the glorification of the flag reminds me of the Nuremberg rallies of the 1930s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, phypon said: You've got that completely backwards, buddy. By your logic it was okay for protesters to spit on Vietnam vets when they arrived home, because, you know, freedom of speech/expression and all. I think snowflakes like you and the OP are completely comfortable being on your knees. Safe places for sniveling $hits like the two of you are dwindling. You're not the only one with a voice anymore. That's not freedom of speech. That's actively violating someone else's right. They had a right to protest the war, even call them baby killers, what have you. But the second they started spitting, that was assault, brutha. You're calling someone a snowflake, when you're the one getting all bend out of shape over how someone reacts to a flag and a song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloaf Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 30 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Why even play the anthem before sporting events? It doesn't happen in any other professional endeavor. Why even have a national anthem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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