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Roster Review/Offense


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1 hour ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

I think maybe the whole TEs argument here may have gone off the rails a bit...here are the comments I was focusing on:

 

 

 

There's a difference in being "excellent pass catchers" and "inconsistent" (which, based on your follow ups, you're referring more to their overall performance/impact on the stat sheet, week in, week out). Not trying to speak for John here, but I interpreted his comment about being excellent pass catchers as having reliable hands. Maybe that wasn't his point, but that was the basis for my post. 

 

Now perhaps "excellent" might not be the best choice of words, but IMO both Clay, (and especially) O'Leary have great hands for their position

The whole thing is whack anyway

 

Both Clay and O'Leary have made plays catching the ball (O'Leary the more sure handed) however we also dont throw the ball a ton so the numbers are misleading.

 

But i also recognize that Clay has the bad knee

 

O'Leary has actually gotten better every year.  I am glad that they have stuck with him.    I love how he catches pretty much everything close to him them turns around and punishes defenders for more yards.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The whole thing is whack anyway

 

Both Clay and O'Leary have made plays catching the ball (O'Leary the more sure handed) however we also dont throw the ball a ton so the numbers are misleading.

 

But i also recognize that Clay has the bad knee

 

O'Leary has actually gotten better every year.  I am glad that they have stuck with him.    I love how he catches pretty much everything close to him them turns around and punishes defenders for more yards.

 

 

 

Agreed. O'Leary has hands of glue. No gloves; he just looks the part of a "classic" TE, despite his size. Aside from his hands, he's rather average across the board, but just looks like an old school type football player.

 

I don't think that either of us are describing O'Leary or Clay as more than they are. I just don't view them as "not reliable" (when called upon). 

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1 minute ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

Agreed. O'Leary has hands of glue. No gloves; he just looks the part of a "classic" TE, despite his size. Aside from his hands, he's rather average across the board, but just looks like an old school type football player.

 

I don't think that either of us are describing O'Leary or Clay as more than they are. I just don't view them as "not reliable" (when called upon). 

I think it is a case of "the grass is greener" when comparing our own TE's

 

There are better ones in the league no doubt....but that does not mean that ours are not good.

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23 hours ago, RPbillsfan said:

I think the offense is much better then what people are thinking.  Really depends on how well the play is at QB position

Man, I have a feeling these wide receivers are going to have some bullets thrown their way this season.

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1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Yes....your opinion can definately be wrong.   But even though you cant grasp the concept of this you are entitled to your opinon.

 

and other people have the right to theirs without your bs.

 

Telling somebody their opinion is wrong when their opinion isn't based in reality/objectiveness isn't bs, John.

 

You can be entitled to whatever opinion you want, just like anybody is entitled to tell you that opinion is incorrect, which is the concept that you fail to grasp.

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1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Telling somebody their opinion is wrong when their opinion isn't based in reality/objectiveness isn't bs, John.

 

You can be entitled to whatever opinion you want, just like anybody is entitled to tell you that opinion is incorrect, which is the concept that you fail to grasp.

Who are you to tell me my opinion is incorrect?

 

That is what YOU fail to grasp.   It always circles back around to this.

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3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Who are you to tell me my opinion is incorrect?

 

That is what YOU fail to grasp.   It always circles back around to this.

 

Somebody who objectively looked at something such as the offensive line losing its two best players and replacing them with backups, but your opinion is that there won't be a dropoff.

 

I didn't know I needed some form of license to tell you that an opinion was wrong based on a lack of evidence to support your hypotheses.

 

Very similar to somebody saying something like "tom Brady sucks, he's terrible" which is their opinion, but it's just wrong.

 

So "wrong" is a bit hard, how about "most likely incorrect based on the information available"?

 

Does that make you less offended?

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Just now, SouthNYfan said:

 

Somebody who objectively looked at something such as the offensive line losing its two best players and replacing them with backups, but your opinion is that there won't be a dropoff.

 

I didn't know I needed some form of license to tell you that an opinion was wrong based on a lack of evidence to support your hypotheses.

 

Very similar to somebody saying something like "tom Brady sucks, he's terrible" which is their opinion, but it's just wrong.

 

So "wrong" is a bit hard, how about "most likely incorrect based on the information available"?

 

Does that make you less offended?

Its still a matter of opinion.   Who is to say you are the one looking at this objectively?

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15 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Its still a matter of opinion.   Who is to say you are the one looking at this objectively?

 

We lost our two best linemen, and replaced them with the backups from last year.

We lost then unexpectedly to retirement, so this wasn't something planned that the front office had guys in the wings waiting to take their place.

That's an objective fact.

The most logical opinion, based on that fact, is that the oline will see regression, unless the backups suddenly become miracle pro bowl caliber players.

 

Is that a good enough explanation for you?

 

What objective reasoning have you used to make your deduction that the oline will not regress, other than "I feel it won't"?

What did you base that off of?

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14 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

We lost our two best linemen, and replaced them with the backups from last year.

We lost then unexpectedly to retirement, so this wasn't something planned that the front office had guys in the wings waiting to take their place.

That's an objective fact.

The most logical opinion, based on that fact, is that the oline will see regression, unless the backups suddenly become miracle pro bowl caliber players.

 

Is that a good enough explanation for you?

 

What objective reasoning have you used to make your deduction that the oline will not regress, other than "I feel it won't"?

What did you base that off of?

I think there is a chance that the shift back to a power scheme will offset the damage a bit.

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25 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

We lost our two best linemen, and replaced them with the backups from last year.

We lost then unexpectedly to retirement, so this wasn't something planned that the front office had guys in the wings waiting to take their place.

That's an objective fact.

The most logical opinion, based on that fact, is that the oline will see regression, unless the backups suddenly become miracle pro bowl caliber players.

 

Is that a good enough explanation for you?

 

What objective reasoning have you used to make your deduction that the oline will not regress, other than "I feel it won't"?

What did you base that off of?

First Bolded selection. How often were those same 2 people injured last year? who replaced them then? didn't they do a good job? I thought Dawkins did a fine job. I think your playing Dawkins down as a backup when he is now ready for full time starter EASY and I think Dion can be a Pro Bowler. Looking down on him is foolish. Here is the thing though.

 

You have no info to know the O'Line will regress until they play. your playing guessing games.. You have a right to your opinion based on what is missing and others have a right to there opinion based on what is there. I am not going to say they will be great cause they wont.. but I am not going to pull out my crystal ball and say they will be horrible cause we don't no that either.

 

How many times in this league has players shocked you.. Played absolutely horrible.. like a nightmare there first year -3 years then pull rabbit out of there ass and play strong. We just don't know..

 

THAT being said I feel the line will regress a little but not to the point where I am loosing sleep over it cause this is a whole new system and maybe even blocking system that will take time to learn with new offensive system anyhow. Lets just say the line is horrible this year? I still don't care because we will have what 80-90 mil next year + next years free agents + next years draft class besides?

 

 

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7 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

First Bolded selection. How often were those same 2 people injured last year? who replaced them then? didn't they do a good job? I thought Dawkins did a fine job. I think your playing Dawkins down as a backup when he is now ready for full time starter EASY and I think Dion can be a Pro Bowler. Looking down on him is foolish. Here is the thing though.

 

You have no info to know the O'Line will regress until they play. your playing guessing games.. You have a right to your opinion based on what is missing and others have a right to there opinion based on what is there. I am not going to say they will be great cause they wont.. but I am not going to pull out my crystal ball and say they will be horrible cause we don't no that either.

 

How many times in this league has players shocked you.. Played absolutely horrible.. like a nightmare there first year -3 years then pull rabbit out of there ass and play strong. We just don't know..

 

THAT being said I feel the line will regress a little but not to the point where I am loosing sleep over it cause this is a whole new system and maybe even blocking system that will take time to learn with new offensive system anyhow. Lets just say the line is horrible this year? I still don't care because we will have what 80-90 mil next year + next years free agents + next years draft class besides?

 

 

 

Dawkins replaced Glenn if I'm not mistaken.

I conceded that I won't count him since he was hit or miss (Glenn)

We lost wood and incognito to sudden retirement

Wood played 16 games

Incognito played 16 games

That's who I'm talking about

 

I'm just saying I think we will see a regression this year.

22 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I think there is a chance that the shift back to a power scheme will offset the damage a bit.

 

That's a good point.

The point of it all is there will most likely be a regression losing out two best linemen without any replacement.

 

I'm okay with the drop-off, the whole discussion started with everybody calling people who think we will have regression doomsayer's basically.

It's just being realistic.

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On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 1:09 PM, RPbillsfan said:

I think the offense is much better then what people are thinking.  Really depends on how well the play is at QB position

 

I hope you are right.

 

18 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And they have one good knee between them.....

 

 

I have no feel for what the offense will be yet at all. I just feel like everything on that side olis subjective unless it is "Shady is gonna be vital to our offensive success again."

 

Beyond Shady and maybe Dion Dawkins I have 9 question marks for different reasons. Can Daboll piece something together that is greater than the sum of its parts? Can a Quarterback capable of winning us games emerge? Are they still going to add vets who shake loose elsewhere? 

 

Just too many questions for me to give a proper, considered, view. 

 

This is my opinion too.  I see an unknown offensive scheme with a new inexperienced QB behind a question mark OL.

If all of those are mediocre or less it won't matter who we got at RB, WR and TE.

It's all going to start with Daboll and let's hope he is up to the task.

He is going to earn his money this year.

 

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

When they put in their offense and then decide who is actually on the roster and who's starting I'll comment.

 

Until all this happens any opinion of mine would be just speculation.  Part of the fun of this offseason will be to see how this all unfolds.

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41 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Dawkins replaced Glenn if I'm not mistaken.

I conceded that I won't count him since he was hit or miss (Glenn)

We lost wood and incognito to sudden retirement

Wood played 16 games

Incognito played 16 games

That's who I'm talking about

 

I'm just saying I think we will see a regression this year.

2016 Groy filled in for several games and did just fine and many feel center is not the biggest position of worry. LG, RG, RT are positions that worry me but hey.. Next man up. you never no and again. I think there will be a slight regression but who knows with new scheme

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14 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

2016 Groy filled in for several games and did just fine and many feel center is not the biggest position of worry. LG, RG, RT are positions that worry me but hey.. Next man up. you never no and again. I think there will be a slight regression but who knows with new scheme

 

Yes I am hoping groy can do okay, but he was woods' backup for a reason, so even if he's okay, the likely result is a regression.

Really that's my point.

 

Here's hoping he's good though.

 

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15 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Yes I am hoping groy can do okay, but he was woods' backup for a reason, so even if he's okay, the likely result is a regression.

Really that's my point.

 

Here's hoping he's good though.

 

he was sitting behind him because he was better, yet that does not mean he is a huge drop off.

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36 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

he was sitting behind him because he was better, yet that does not mean he is a huge drop off.

 

Agreed.

So let's assume he's 80% as good

What about incognito backup?

 

And any dropoff is still a dropoff, which was my point from the start, as well as in another thread.

 

A dropoff is realistic to expect, and it's unrealistic to assume there will be no dropoff.

 

 

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8 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Agreed.

So let's assume he's 80% as good

What about incognito backup?

 

And any dropoff is still a dropoff, which was my point from the start, as well as in another thread.

 

A dropoff is realistic to expect, and it's unrealistic to assume there will be no dropoff.

 

 

as I stated the guard position is the biggest concern. I think LT. RT C are ok. and with those positions little drop. its the guards.

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