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AJ Mccarron shouldn't be slept on (dont think its been posted yet)

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5 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Dalton took a sack on 4.9% of plays, which was good for #13th best in the league that year amongst starters.

Aj was 9.2% which would put him second to last (#35) for qualifying players.

Smaller sample size for AJ obviously, and he was obviously adjusting to starting, but I think they had a decent line, better than ours is projected this year.

 

 

I don't disagree with what you said.

I like mccarron better than Tyrod since I think a pocket passer is more consistent than a running QB.

I think our oline isn't great, and that AJ has a good chance to get annihilated behind our line, while Tyrod could at least run and escape better than AJ can, so he covered up some of the oline flaws.

Our receiving corps this year is also nowhere near the bengals 2015, so I'm not sure why pointing out what Tyrod did in 2015 has to do with what AJ is working with this year.

 

And Dalton was the starter so he got the majority of snaps in practice while McCarron got thrown in after Dalton was injured. Reverse rolls and the numbers might be far different. McCarron also played against too very good defensive teams. Not an apples to apples comparison. Analytics with no context.

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15 hours ago, Rebel101 said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see what the guy can do. But what are the point of articles like this where the only supporting evidence and reasoning is to "not sleep on him starting" and he's had success in college? Okay...so why?

 

I don't know if Allen is going to be ready for September even without McCarron in the picture - trading up for a project QB hasn't exactly worked for us before...but hey, excited for whatever's next regardless and can't exactly change our cards now. 

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2 hours ago, eball said:

 

I thought you were making a joke.  The only way I want Allen to sit is if either (a) he shows he's not ready in TC or preseason; or (b) the QB in front of him is playing at a high level.  Sitting and "learning" behind mediocrity isn't going to help anyone.

 

I have a feeling it's going to be obvious in training camp that Allen is head and shoulders (literally and figuratively) above the other QBs on the roster.

 

So do I. They might still go with McCarron early but it will not last long. Remember Houston went with Tom Savage...... for 2 Quarters. 

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So here is where I have unaddressed curiousity.  Several have expressed this opinion, so not simply intending to pick on you.

 

A number of NFL pundits, generally considered to be knowledgeable, have expressed the view that Allen is a "high level prospect" who needs to sit and learn for a season, solidifying changes to his mechanics (footwork) and learning to recognize the complexities of an NFL defense on film and master an NFL offense.  So in your viewpoint (and the viewpoint of others expressing this view) are these guys just ignorant, or mistaken, or ????

 

Obviously there are differing approaches and no proven right/wrong method. Every player, coach, supporting cast, and situation is different.

 

whats tough on pundits are a few issues:

 

1) we don’t know how much they invested in that opinion. Are they all doing the work and getting the same result, or did one guy say cordy Glenn is a guard and everyone just repeated it?

 

2) often nfl guys are old school and even if there’s a new and possibly better way they lean on the old method. In this case, learn from the bench. 

 

There are certainly some that do the work and have highly educated opinions that I might not agree with (likely some on both sides but we don’t know who’s who sometimes)

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3 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

And Dalton was the starter so he got the majority of snaps in practice while McCarron got thrown in after Dalton was injured. Reverse rolls and the numbers might be far different. McCarron also played against too very good defensive teams. Not an apples to apples comparison. Analytics with no context.

 

You really have reading comprehension problems.

Almost every single response you give people has nothing to do with what their post was pointing to.

You asked if they had a good line that year.

I gave you the sack % with Dalton at #13, then said AJ would have been second to last on the league behind the same line, but included that it was a small sample size, so not that accurate.

I never made ANY inference that aj was at fault there, and said that I just felt they had a better offensive line than we will this year.

I then went on to talk about how tyrods mobility masked a lot of fault with our oline, and that I think AJ, being a pocket guy with less mobility, might get killed back there.

You, as usual, went on to respond with some random aj crusade that had nothing to do with what I posted.

We get it.

You love AJ and all things 'bama.

Try reading the posts you're quoting before responding sometime though, since you seem to fail at that.

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lol if our QB for the opening game in 2019 is AJ McCarron, the Bills made a huge mistake. 

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4 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

lol if our QB for the opening game in 2019 is AJ McCarron, the Bills made a huge mistake. 

bit dramatic

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I think he's going to be a lot better than the negative Nancys here think. 

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Why bring up data that isn’t accurate unless you are crusading against McCarron? There obviously isn’t a large enough sample size for McCarron to compare him to Dalton. I think It would have been fair to say that the Bengals OL was likely top of the bottom third to mid tier.

 

I’ve said that McCarron ceiling is likely mid-tier.

 

Football is way too complicated to reduce to simple analytics.  

Edited by Sky Diver

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3 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Why is it so hard to believe that I want to see a rookie QB developed for once, and not thrown to the wolves?

The only way you develop is by playing. Learning on the bench is a myth. And if Allen starts and plays bad 1st couple games and people worry about him losing his confidence then he doesn't have the mental toughness to be a franchise QB anyway.

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15 hours ago, Mickey said:

You can't beat the logic inherent in the observation: "Hey, who knows? He could be good." Its what those in the biz call "coaching genius". It makes so much more sense than the "nattering nabobs of negativism" saying "Hey, who knows? He could be really, really bad." And that my friends is how you seamlessly work in a Spiro T. Agnew quote into a post about quarterbacks. 

Which is greater ... 
Number of posters that know who Spiro T. Agnew is or 
Number of posters that can tell you who the last Bills punter was that completed a pass.

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2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So here is where I have unaddressed curiousity.  Several have expressed this opinion, so not simply intending to pick on you.

 

A number of NFL pundits, generally considered to be knowledgeable, have expressed the view that Allen is a "high level prospect" who needs to sit and learn for a season, solidifying changes to his mechanics (footwork) and learning to recognize the complexities of an NFL defense on film and master an NFL offense.  So in your viewpoint (and the viewpoint of others expressing this view) are these guys just ignorant, or mistaken, or ????

 

I won't say they're ignorant or mistaken...I'll say they simply don't know.  None of us do.  Aaron Rodgers didn't play immediately because a HOFer was still QB'ing the Pack, so he's a terrible example (not that you used him as one but others have).  Would he have been good if he played immediately?  We don't know.  Name a good to great NFL QB who started his career sitting on the bench for 1-2 seasons (who didn't have an entrenched starter ahead of him).  You almost always know what you have pretty quickly, even if the guy takes a few lumps in his rookie season.  In my opinion he learns infinitely more from that experience than he will watching film and carrying the starter's jock around.  Caveat:  this analysis only applies to early 1st round guys -- the ones projected to be potential franchise QBs.  There's a reason they are drafted so highly.

 

Backup QBs don't get much work against a 1st string defense if they aren't playing.  Sure, they watch film, they practice, but I just don't believe they get better by not playing unless they are ridiculously raw coming out of college.  I agree with Beane that Allen is not "raw."

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1 hour ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

The only way you develop is by playing. Learning on the bench is a myth. And if Allen starts and plays bad 1st couple games and people worry about him losing his confidence then he doesn't have the mental toughness to be a franchise QB anyway.

 

Sure, why not?  It's worked so well the past two decades...

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So do I. They might still go with McCarron early but it will not last long. Remember Houston went with Tom Savage...... for 2 Quarters. 

This to me is terrible logic.  Obviously, Watson was the better Qb and no reason why he should have took all those snaps from Watson in Tc and Preseason.  It took Watson about 3 weeks before he was rolling.  If he had those reps early he would have gotten to playing at a higher level sooner.  After the first preseason game Watson was the better player.   

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5 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

This to me is terrible logic.  Obviously, Watson was the better Qb and no reason why he should have took all those snaps from Watson in Tc and Preseason.  It took Watson about 3 weeks before he was rolling.  If he had those reps early he would have gotten to playing at a higher level sooner.  After the first preseason game Watson was the better player.   

 

It actually only took Watson a game to get rolling. He was only average his first start on a short week at Cincy on TNF. He was excellent after that. 

 

I agree it is poor logic though. It isn't what I would do. It is what I think they might do. 

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1 hour ago, Domdab99 said:

lol if our QB for the opening game in 2019 is AJ McCarron, the Bills made a huge mistake. 

 

 

There is nothing wrong about easing a QB into the NFL. Many rookie QB's don't start the 1st few games, many sit a year.. Some come out and start hot and fade away after teams get tape on tyhem, others maintain or keep getting better, and some just have the wheels come off early and can't recover.

 

1 hour ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

The only way you develop is by playing. Learning on the bench is a myth. And if Allen starts and plays bad 1st couple games and people worry about him losing his confidence then he doesn't have the mental toughness to be a franchise QB anyway.

 

 

Sorry this is not a completely true statement. Not all players learn the same way or at the same rate.... a major way to regress is to put a player into a position before he is fully ready. Some people do better by being eased into something, some people can jump in and get off to a quick start. You see it every day life, no two people are the same and different personalities, different cognitive functions require different approaches.

 

This one size fits all mentality from fans is not the mindset of successful coaches/teams

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My girlfriend would be super upset if I slept on AJ McCarron. 

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3 minutes ago, Mango said:

My girlfriend would be super upset if I slept on AJ McCarron. 

 

He probably wouldn't enjoy it much either.

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1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

And I said that Dareus was a dud is 2nd yr. I call it like I see it.

 

I believe you call it like you see it

 

Dareus went on to 2x probowl and 1x all-pro his 3rd and 4th years and was referred to by many knowledgeable as one of the best, if not the best, DT in the NFL esp. 2014

 

If you called him a "dud", you might want to revisit what you're seeing

 

 

1 hour ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

The only way you develop is by playing. Learning on the bench is a myth. And if Allen starts and plays bad 1st couple games and people worry about him losing his confidence then he doesn't have the mental toughness to be a franchise QB anyway.

 

How do you know that?

for all the pundits who say he needs time on the bench to develop - why do they think that and why do you believe they're all mistaken?

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Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I believe you call it like you see it

 

Dareus went on to 2x probowl and 1x all-pro his 3rd and 4th years and was referred to by many knowledgeable as one of the best, if not the best, DT in the NFL esp. 2014

 

If you called him a "dud", you might want to revisit what you're seeing

 

 

 

He had a few good years and now at 28 he appears to be washed up.

 

As good as may been 3 or 4 years ago, I wonder how great he could have been if had been more mature and was motivated.

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4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I believe you call it like you see it

 

Dareus went on to 2x probowl and 1x all-pro his 3rd and 4th years and was referred to by many knowledgeable as one of the best, if not the best, DT in the NFL esp. 2014

 

If you called him a "dud", you might want to revisit what you're seeing

 

 

 

How do you know that?

for all the pundits who say he needs time on the bench to develop - why do they think that and why do you believe they're all mistaken?

 

Learning on the bench is good for becoming comfortable in the film room/prep/ mental side of the game. But no practice in life for any task is better than actually doing it.

 

Do you think a golfer is more prepared for a tournament by being someone's caddy or actually playing a practice round? 

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1 minute ago, Sky Diver said:

He had a few good years and now at 28 he appears to be washed up.

As good as may been 3 or 4 years ago, I wonder how great he could have been if had been more mature and was motivated.

 

Agreed.

 

My point is, if you called him a "dud" in his second season, then he went on to all-pro and probowl and praise 3rd and 4th....you might have a hair-trigger on your "dud" caller.

 

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