Jump to content
YoloinOhio

@YardsPerPass interview on WGR - why he’s talked himself into Josh Allen

Recommended Posts

10 hours ago, Justice said:

Like I said several times, I hope he’s great. I believe it was you that accused me of wanting to be right. Couldn’t be further from the truth. You obviously see things the way you want to see them. 

 

I didn’t compare situations either. I compared schemes. Big difference. You missed the point. 

I only accused you of being a know it all who won't listen to someone who has a lot more info on the subject than you do. Now you can't even get who said what to you right. I never accused you whatever you are claiming above. 

 

You are one of those types of guys that think they are never wrong. On this subject you are. You don't see me go off talking about anything else about the Bills because I am soaking it in, trying to learn about them before I give any input. Allen and Wyoming is what I know. You claim to know but aren't even close because you aren't willing to take the info myself and others have given you to work with. You would rather run with the mob mentality and read the negatives. There is plenty of negative out there on all the qb's if you want to look. I don't look for it because they aren't the qb of my newly adopted team. Spin it any way you want, I know more about Allen and his situation than you do by a long shot. Pick a different area and I am sure you can blow me out of the water. But not this. I am around the program , I know the players and coaches.  Palmer and others are not going to stick their necks out for Allen on a whim. In all actuality, Palmer is very respected in the league. Along with Chris Simms and others touting Allen.

 

If you can't understand all the things Allen had to overcome to get this high in the football world, then I guess you never will. He had poor stats, small school, no offers, etc,etc, and still could have been a #1pick. He wasn't groomed to be a qb his whole life like the other guys he is being compared to. He made huge leaps in the small time that Palmer and the Senior Bowl staff had him. He is a sponge about receiving instruction, and picks it up quickly. Football people don't stick their necks out for guys they don't have it. And if you look at how many qb's who had great stats and came from big schools that didn't make it, you would realize no one really knows if any qb touted is going to make it. Everyone in football had already written Goff off, a few changes and he is considered one of the best qb's playing. So I really get tired of the real analysts, little alone the self proclaimed ones that think they know who is going to pan out. All I can say is don't let his quiet demeanor fool you, he is a competitor. Watch the UNLV game where he throws a pick. He is so mad at himself he runs the guy down and puts a violent tackle on him at the 2 yard line preventing the score. 

 

I already know you are the type who will post as soon as you see this . You have to get the last word in regardless, so have at it. I tried to educate you and save you from yourself, but it won't happen. For some unknown reason you are the guy who has to show the world you know more than the guy you are debating. Any other subject and I would let you run with it. But not this one.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I know franchise changing qbs come in all different forms and different back grounds. Analytic guys have hammered Allen all off season but the old scouts have not. Of the last 30 years the qbs who have said to have once in a lifetime arms I would say would of been, Allen, Jeff George, Jarmacus Russell, Brett Farve, Drew Bledsoe, Matt Stafford, Aaron Rodgers, Andrew Luck, Ryan Mallet, Jay Cuttler and Carson Wentz (top 10). Most certainly some have busted to an epic level but for those ones that didn't there was a common trend. The ones who didn't showed tremendous work ethic and coach ability. Just like any professional talent trumps all and it's how you harness it that separates it. Sure half those guys busted but they were nightmares to coach or were extremely lazy. Even someone like cutler wasn't a bust and if his teammates liked him and was coachable would of been that much more successful 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for the rant that was off topic but as I stated earlier I was a Rosen fan but understand why they took Allen. Allen was 4th on my list but wanted one of the top 4 so I was happy to snag him. The one thing I didn't realize before the draft was the great work with and coach ability. What kept Allen in the conversation for me was re fact he had identicle tds stats to wentz in fewer games. Sure he had more tunrovers and a lower completion percentage but if he didn't, he would of been number 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's odd to say the kid doesn't have any "swagger" what ever the funk that means.

 

He has almost no arrogance.  He hasn't been given anything.  And he over came.

 

You don't go from ZERO offers for college to a top 10 pick by not having "it".  Most of why I love this kid is because he has worked though every wall in front of him.  Because HE wanted it.

 

I'm not comparing the guy to Brady, but his will to overcome is reminiscent.

Edited by JaxBills
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, JaxBills said:

I think it's odd to say the kid doesn't have any "swagger" what ever the funk that means.

 

He has almost no arrogance.  He hasn't been given anything.  And he over came.

 

You don't go from ZERO offers for college to a top 10 pick by not having "it".  Most of why I love this kid is because he has worked though every wall in front of him.  Because HE wanted it.

 

I'm not comparing the guy to Brady, but his will to overcome is reminiscent.

Finally, some people are starting to understand about Allen and who he is. He didn't ask for the scrutiny and wasn't out there begging for attention. The kidoctor has been fun to watch. He has grown in the two years I have watched him. His film shows he regressed, but you have to understand the film and what the circumstances were . It was like he was playing with one hand tied behind his back because of the OC. It seems like the OC kept putting him in 3rd and long situations expecting Allen to bail him out. All the while the opposing team would pin back their ears and bring the heat. If the play calling would have mixed it up and kept the defense back on their feet, Allen could have put up better numbers. But when a qb is used mainly to hand the ball off on the first two downs, it makes it tough to move the ball.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Comparing the Patriots' scheme to Wyoming's scheme is just as bad.

BB says Allen had a horrible oline and terrible WRs. He also said the coaching staff didn’t feature Josh in their offense. My contention is he should’ve ran a timing based offense (like NE) because that covers deficiencies in both of those aforementioned areas, but they most likely didn’t do it because JA isn’t capable of running that type of offense. BB claims he can throw with timing and anticipation. I don’t see it. When he gets to the top of his dropback he doesn’t release the ball. He waits, scans the field and frequently takes off running. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Justice said:

BB says Allen had a horrible oline and terrible WRs. He also said the coaching staff didn’t feature Josh in their offense. My contention is he should’ve ran a timing based offense (like NE) because that covers deficiencies in both of those aforementioned areas, but they most likely didn’t do it because JA isn’t capable of running that type of offense. BB claims he can throw with timing and anticipation. I don’t see it. When he gets to the top of his dropback he doesn’t release the ball. He waits, scans the field and frequently takes off running. 

 

lol why is that your assumption?

 

You expect an offensive coordinator who had spent his entire career at the FCS level before coming to Wyoming a few years back and has coached nothing but an outdated offense to completely switch his philosophy and implement a "timing based offense like NE"?

 

This statement alone demonstrates your lack of understanding here.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

lol why is that your assumption?

 

You expect an offensive coordinator who had spent his entire career at the FCS level before coming to Wyoming a few years back and has coached nothing but an outdated offense to completely switch his philosophy and implement a "timing based offense like NE"?

 

This statement alone demonstrates your lack of understanding here.

Wow. I don’t understand the game. Gotchya. Lmao. There are elements of a timing passing game in every offense. If the first read is open you’re supposed to fire that ball as soon as you finish your drop. JA doesn’t do that often. He rarely does it. If that’s not enough for you then his admitted struggles with accuracy should prove to you he was incapable of running that type of passing game. He blamed his footwork, right? He said he cleaned it up. Let’s hope it’s true. 

 

I expect coaching staffs to know enough about to play to his players strengths. That’s my argument. That’s been my argument the whole time. He doesn’t have to change systems. He can call more pass plays that require timing. They’re in every offense. 

Edited by Justice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Justice said:

 

I expect coaching staffs to know enough about to play to his players strengths. That’s my argument. That’s been my argument the whole time. He doesn’t have to change systems. He can call more pass plays that require timing. They’re in every offense. 

Most people expect coaches to play to a player strengths but a lot of coaches are extremely hard headed. Case in point Rick Dennison running an offense that played in to Tyrods weakness. Another is Nick Foles, looked good under chip running the spread and RPOs and then goes to the Rams looks awful and then back to philly and wins a super bowl. 

 

I haven't watched Wyoming football expect on YouTube but I find it totally plausible that his oc wasn't smart enough or capable enough to design an offense around JA stengths. Instead, did what a lot of OCs on his level due and just run an offense on he's always done it and not adapt 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BB@Shooter said:

I only accused you of being a know it all who won't listen to someone who has a lot more info on the subject than you do. Now you can't even get who said what to you right. I never accused you whatever you are claiming above. 

 

You are one of those types of guys that think they are never wrong. On this subject you are. You don't see me go off talking about anything else about the Bills because I am soaking it in, trying to learn about them before I give any input. Allen and Wyoming is what I know. You claim to know but aren't even close because you aren't willing to take the info myself and others have given you to work with. You would rather run with the mob mentality and read the negatives. There is plenty of negative out there on all the qb's if you want to look. I don't look for it because they aren't the qb of my newly adopted team. Spin it any way you want, I know more about Allen and his situation than you do by a long shot. Pick a different area and I am sure you can blow me out of the water. But not this. I am around the program , I know the players and coaches.  Palmer and others are not going to stick their necks out for Allen on a whim. In all actuality, Palmer is very respected in the league. Along with Chris Simms and others touting Allen.

 

If you can't understand all the things Allen had to overcome to get this high in the football world, then I guess you never will. He had poor stats, small school, no offers, etc,etc, and still could have been a #1pick. He wasn't groomed to be a qb his whole life like the other guys he is being compared to. He made huge leaps in the small time that Palmer and the Senior Bowl staff had him. He is a sponge about receiving instruction, and picks it up quickly. Football people don't stick their necks out for guys they don't have it. And if you look at how many qb's who had great stats and came from big schools that didn't make it, you would realize no one really knows if any qb touted is going to make it. Everyone in football had already written Goff off, a few changes and he is considered one of the best qb's playing. So I really get tired of the real analysts, little alone the self proclaimed ones that think they know who is going to pan out. All I can say is don't let his quiet demeanor fool you, he is a competitor. Watch the UNLV game where he throws a pick. He is so mad at himself he runs the guy down and puts a violent tackle on him at the 2 yard line preventing the score. 

 

I already know you are the type who will post as soon as you see this . You have to get the last word in regardless, so have at it. I tried to educate you and save you from yourself, but it won't happen. For some unknown reason you are the guy who has to show the world you know more than the guy you are debating. Any other subject and I would let you run with it. But not this one.

Sorry. My bad. Didn’t know this was a discussion board. I didn’t realize it’s about having the last word. Lol. 

 

I wasn’t sure it was you that accused me of wanting to be right more than wanting Allen to pan out. That’s why I said “I believe...”’instead of outright saying it. Maybe it’s because of your profile pick. It’s similar to others. 

 

“Football people don’t stick their necks out for guys that don’t have it”. Really???? I mean really????? Lol. Guess you don’t watch the draft every year. Lol. 

 

I can guarantee you we will not be running a WCO or any variation of it with Allen at QB. That doesn’t mean he can’t be good or even great. I’m not closing the door on the kid. I see his potential. I see the size. I see the cannon. I see the athletic ability. I want this kid to be special. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

lol why is that your assumption?

 

You expect an offensive coordinator who had spent his entire career at the FCS level before coming to Wyoming a few years back and has coached nothing but an outdated offense to completely switch his philosophy and implement a "timing based offense like NE"?

 

This statement alone demonstrates your lack of understanding here.

If the Bills play defense as hard as Justice, we will be great. That daffy fellow has it stuck in his noggin that everyone should run timing passes out their ying yangs. He doesn't understand that if the receiver can't get seperation, there is no timing route. Just because it is a timing route, then the receiver automatically gets open? This guy is a wannabe qb coach. Maybe the Bills can hire him to help get that New England offense in, and he can take over showing Allen what he is doing wrong. Lmfao.

 

I can see it now, Justice tells Palmer to move over. That he is starting up the Justice Throwing Academy. Kind of like the Manning Camp, but with a better coach and probably player. He will tell all qbs to concentrate on timing passes, and don't hold that ball back behind your head. And done.

 

Forget that Allen had as fast as a release time as Aaron Rodgers. Threw faster and harder than anyone else has been recorded at. Justice is now the official qb guru of  Bill Nation. Whether we want him or not. Because he keeps bouncing back faster than a kick me dog.

Edited by BB@Shooter
Mistakes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BB@Shooter said:

If the Bills play defense as hard as Justice, we will be great. That daffy fellow has it stuck in his noggin that everyone should run timing passes out their ying yangs. He doesn't understand that if the receiver can't get seperation, there is no timing route. Just because it is a timing route, then the receiver automatically gets open? This guy is a wannabe qb coach. Maybe the Bills can hire him to help get that New England offense in, and he can take over showing Allen what he is doing wrong. Lmfao.

 

I can see it now, Justice tells Palmer to move over. That he is starting up the Justice Throwing Academy. Kind of like the Manning Camp, but with a better coach and probably player. He will tell all qbs to concentrate on timing passes, and don't hold that ball back behind your head. And done.

 

Forget that Allen had as fast as a release time as Aaron Rodgers. Threw faster and harder than anyone else has been recorded at. Justice is now the official qb guru of  Bill Nation. Whether we want him or not. Because he keeps bouncing back faster than a kick me dog.

What do I know right? I haven’t watched Wyoming football. Don’t take it from me, take it from Bill Walsh. That good enough for you? I didn’t need Walsh or anyone else to explain any of this to me, it’s common sense, but since you can’t see it, here you go...

 

Walsh saw these advantages as necessary to the success of an offense that wasn't counting on having superior talent to win. When teams are evenly matched or when the defense is slightly better than the offense, receivers can exploit these advantages in order to get open. Timing is essential to accomplishing this.

As Walsh once noted:

Too often in college football, either the quarterback is standing there waiting for the receiver, or the receiver has broken before the quarterback can throw the ball. These are the biggest flaws you will see in the forward pass. Now when the receiver breaks before the ball can be thrown, the defensive back can adjust to the receiver. Any time the quarterback holds the ball waiting for the receiver to break, the defensive back sees it and breaks on the receiver.
Edited by Justice
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are we even arguing about anyways? This isn’t a right or wrong situation. JA could be great or he can be a bust. We don’t know.  I preferred Rosen over Allen. He’s more like the type of QB I like. 

 

My opinion is JA lacks accuracy, his inner clock is a bit off and can’t throw with great anticipation and timing. That’s my opinion. Disagree all you like. Fact is he’ll either prove me right or wrong and I pray it’s the latter. I even admitted he can be great without a WC style offense. I don’t know why you’re badgering me on this issue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Justice said:

What do I know right? I haven’t watched Wyoming football. Don’t take it from me, take it from Bill Walsh. That good enough for you? I didn’t need Walsh or anyone else to explain any of this to me, it’s common sense, but since you can’t see it, here you go...

 

Walsh saw these advantages as necessary to the success of an offense that wasn't counting on having superior talent to win. When teams are evenly matched or when the defense is slightly better than the offense, receivers can exploit these advantages in order to get open. Timing is essential to accomplishing this.

As Walsh once noted:

Too often in college football, either the quarterback is standing there waiting for the receiver, or the receiver has broken before the quarterback can throw the ball. These are the biggest flaws you will see in the forward pass. Now when the receiver breaks before the ball can be thrown, the defensive back can adjust to the receiver. Any time the quarterback holds the ball waiting for the receiver to break, the defensive back sees it and breaks on the receiver.

Are you sure Walsh didn't quote Justice...The Quarterback Whisperer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said:

Are you sure Walsh didn't quote Justice...The Quarterback Whisperer.

Word 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎5‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 8:47 AM, BigBuff423 said:

At this point, I'm over the "talk me into" or "talk me out of" or any of the pre-Draft stuff. 

 

I'm all about what he does in a Bills uniform. If he out-right wins the job to start in week 1, fine....then let's go. And, let's see how he *improves* because that's what he'll need to do in the first two years playing in the NFL. But, if he sits for the whole first year while AJ and Nate hold it down, fine....I would understand as the Bills want to make sure Allen is ready to be their franchise guy and don't want to put him in a bad spot. But, in year 2, he should start. There's no Favre or Montana holding the team in place, so Allen gets a year to grow and develop - by year 2 - you're the guy come hell or high water. 

 

But for all of the opinions on Allen....it's horse excrement from now on, until the big lights go on and he's wearing the red, white and blue Bills uni on Sundays. I honestly do not care anymore about what he did or didn't do in college. Why? Because it's moot. It is now on McD and Daboll to develop him. That's what they Drafted and that's who they wanted (clearly!), so you've got him. Now, what are you going to do with him? How are you going to mold him into the Franchise QB you determined he's worthy of becoming? 

 

Do it, and make all of Buffalo proud and fans everywhere who live, bleed, and love this team. 

 

I like your post BigBuff, it's how I feel now that the Bill's picked Allen.

I had no favorite in the draft so in a way it's a little different to me compare to a lot of posters who were die hard "insert name here" supporters.

At the end of the day I'm a Bill's fan first so I hope they (Beane McDermott Daboll) bring him along the right way.

 

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 8:33 AM, Dr. Who said:

If Allen was not a late-bloomer from a tiny California farm town, he would not have had to go the Juco to Wyoming route.  His partcular history is rare.  A counter-history is necessarily speculative, but I do believe that had Allen been in a top program, his numbers would have been significantly better and he would have gone first overall to Cleveland.

 

His journey is unique.  I really think that a lot of people don't take this into account as much as they should.

It's one of the reasons I don't mind being a little more patient with him compared to other rookies.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×