Mickey Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Palpable rage is palpable. Again, a completely unfounded concept put forward by eball shouldn't be taken as..pardon the pun...gospel truth. I can't be certain McDermott considers religion in making personnel decisions but I was responding to someone who himself seemed to think that it was okay to do so if it was used as a tie breaker. Its not. As for McDermott, I respectfully disagree that eball's concern is entirely unfounded. Mac does talk about faith in connection with what he is looking for in a football player. Given how important religious faith is to him, it is at least plausible that when he is talking about "faith, family and football" he means faith in God. At the very least, its pretty loose language. We wouldn't be having this discussion if he said "family, community, football" or something similar. In the final analysis, either you trust the guy to be fair or you don't. Despite his loose language on the subject, I have "faith" in McDermott and the Pegula's that they would not improperly consider religion in making hiring decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, eball said: @joesixpack you're trying too hard. If you have something to contribute, contribute. I don't think I am. And I think I have. You're entitled to your tinfoil hats, like everyone else. Edited May 14, 2018 by joesixpack English is hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said: http://buffalonews.com/2017/11/24/inside-the-bills-team-chaplain-len-vanden-bos-blends-faith-and-football/ McDermott hired a full time team Chaplin just after he arrived. I think is may have been the 1st time in organization history, if I remember correctly. McDermott also broke the playoff drought. Although I'll give you credit for bringing substance to the discussion. I forgotten about this. It at least proves the point they have brought religious influence to the team. Now I can't argue against that. I guess people can worry about how religion will effect the team. Edited May 14, 2018 by Lfod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mickey said: I can't be certain McDermott considers religion in making personnel decisions but I was responding to someone who himself seemed to think that it was okay to do so if it was used as a tie breaker. Its not. As for McDermott, I respectfully disagree that eball's concern is entirely unfounded. Mac does talk about faith in connection with what he is looking for in a football player. Given how important religious faith is to him, it is at least plausible that when he is talking about "faith, family and football" he means faith in God. At the very least, its pretty loose language. We wouldn't be having this discussion if he said "family, community, football" or something similar. In the final analysis, either you trust the guy to be fair or you don't. Despite his loose language on the subject, I have "faith" in McDermott and the Pegula's that they would not improperly consider religion in making hiring decisions. as an aside, you mentioned that "a particular prejudice" was prevalent in NFL football. Which prejudice are you speaking of? Inquiring minds want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 There is no doubt that McDermott has a strong religious faith. However, from everything I have read and listened to, in terms of press conferences, player interviews, etc., I have always had the impression that he embraces the individual aspects of each of his players, and that tolerance of individual beliefs and opinions is something he promotes and defends. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Domdab99 said: faith - a belief in a something you can't prove. Yeah, there's a virtue worth having. "Tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him, or that frozen yogurt can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to be persuaded only to the extent that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept its every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence what so ever." -Sam Harris Edited May 14, 2018 by SouthNYfan Fixed typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lfod said: McDermott also broke the playoff drought. Although I'll give you credit for bringing substance to the discussion. I forgotten about this. It at least proves the point they have brought religious influence to the team. On the contrary, I would say the players bring the religious influence, and McDermott is certainly in the same boat, but his purpose for that is to help them, not influence them. “When you talk about providing the resources for our players and our staff – when you do that, there is mind, body and spirit involved,” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 17 minutes ago, Lfod said: Some places in this world people are murdered for being Christians. They are not scared to hide it so don't be afraid to hide you don't believe in it. Malala Yousafzai was shot in the face for standing up for womens rights. She displayed more backbone as a kid then you just represented right now. Martin Luther King Jr died standing up for his cause. I don't care what a person believes but I'll respect them more for fighting for it. Ummm...saying that I would feel compelled to hide my agnosticism does not mean that I would. Heck, I didn't even say I was agnostic. It was a hypothetical made for the purpose of showing that I believe that the NFL is an environment that is hostile to those with certain views on religion. And really, people shouldn't have to be worried about being shot in the face, fired or assassinated because of their views on religion. Nor should they be made to feel that they are cowards if, all things considered, they would rather make their beliefs known in ways that don't result in getting shot in the face. Martyrdom is not the only way to fight oppression. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 48 minutes ago, GG said: Peterman should count for the conversion points Wasn't he Elaine's boss on the Seinfeld Show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 ...faith is a requirement to root for this team the last 50 years... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 hour ago, eball said: If there is one non-football thing I've noticed about McD it is the emphasis he places on faith when discussing the makeup of the team. I believe he uses the phrase "family, faith, football" frequently which begs the question -- is there a place for a player on this roster who isn't a devout Christian or (perish the thought) is agnostic or an atheist? An aspect unique to sports is the open practice of religion before, during, and after games. Obviously McD can't come out and openly discriminate on the basis of religion but that's not what I'm asking. I don't think this is a silly question and I'm not making fun of anyone -- I'm curious to hear others' thoughts and I wonder if a media member would ever ask him that question (i.e., can a player who doesn't claim religious faith as a cornerstone of his life fit into "the process" with the Buffalo Bills)? I see the pattern. First look at the QB’s: - Peterman, AJM are hard core religious - josh Allen Seems to at least have Rosen beaten in that category - when WR trades were made he gushed about Mathews being a man of faith, and every time he can mention it of anyone else... - they have Team prayers - strong religious belief appears more often than not on the new guys brought in - he’s clearly religious himself i think it matters to him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Mickey said: I believe that the NFL is an environment that is hostile to those with certain views on religion Based on what proof, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said: "can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to be persuaded only to the extent that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept its every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence what so ever." -Sam Harris You're going to derail discussion into a polemic about epistemology and apologetics with a quote like that . . . faith is not equivalent to fideism, btw, which seems to be the assumption with those who think faith and reason are like oil and water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Just now, Domdab99 said: faith - a belief in a something you can't prove. Yeah, there's a virtue worth having. Not to get all deep on a football message board, but... Faith, in general, is absolutely a virtue worth having in my opinion. I see faith as an expression of hope for something better. People act in faith all the time, when there is no guarantee or certainty. Like for example - Having a child. You don't know how that child's life will turn out, but you have that child anyway because you believe things will be ok. or getting married. You have no idea if it will work out. You don't know if your marriage will last a lifetime, but you take a leap of faith. So much of what we hold precious relies on faith in other people. How miserable would life be, if when things were going bad you had no faith that it would get better? How many pro athletes would there even be if they didn't have faith in themselves that they could reach their goal? How many times in their life do you think they were told "give up and get a real job!"? I'm sure the same could be said about a lot of people who reached their ultimate goals in life, or realized their dreams. Anyway... lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 18 minutes ago, Lfod said: McDermott also broke the playoff drought. I’ll give you this. That 4th Down Play in Baltimore HAD to be Divine Intervention. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 This type of topic usually brings the Christophobes out of the woodwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 2 hours ago, eball said: If there is one non-football thing I've noticed about McD it is the emphasis he places on faith when discussing the makeup of the team. I believe he uses the phrase "family, faith, football" frequently which begs the question -- is there a place for a player on this roster who isn't a devout Christian or (perish the thought) is agnostic or an atheist? An aspect unique to sports is the open practice of religion before, during, and after games. Obviously McD can't come out and openly discriminate on the basis of religion but that's not what I'm asking. I don't think this is a silly question and I'm not making fun of anyone -- I'm curious to hear others' thoughts and I wonder if a media member would ever ask him that question (i.e., can a player who doesn't claim religious faith as a cornerstone of his life fit into "the process" with the Buffalo Bills)? I actually think you're onto something unless I'm reading the tea leaves correctly. It does seem to be a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 33 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Not to get all deep on a football message board, but... Faith, in general, is absolutely a virtue worth having in my opinion. I see faith as an expression of hope for something better. People act in faith all the time, when there is no guarantee or certainty. Like for example - Having a child. You don't know how that child's life will turn out, but you have that child anyway because you believe things will be ok. or getting married. You have no idea if it will work out. You don't know if your marriage will last a lifetime, but you take a leap of faith. So much of what we hold precious relies on faith in other people. How miserable would life be, if when things were going bad you had no faith that it would get better? How many pro athletes would there even be if they didn't have faith in themselves that they could reach their goal? How many times in their life do you think they were told "give up and get a real job!"? I'm sure the same could be said about a lot of people who reached their ultimate goals in life, or realized their dreams. Anyway... lol. Those are all things that have some expectation of being or becoming true. I’m obviously talking about religious faith. I have faith in my wife because I know her and have experienced her love and care for me personally. i have faith that the sun will rise in the morning, because there is no evidence that says it won’t. At least, not tomorrow. These are evidence-based examples of faith. not the evidence-less faith that religion is based on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 2 hours ago, 4_kidd_4 said: Don’t care if these guys hail Satan in their spare time, just win football games. Satan is already claimed as a patron by P*ts. 1 hour ago, Gugny said: For what it's worth, this is Sean McDermott's high school senior portrait: Just for those who do not know that is George Michael from Faith Remastered album (I had no idea, I did google search of image) Here is Gungy's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts