Watch: AJ McCarron "Highlights" from 2015

[Sky Diver]

Tyrod couldn't throw over the middle, he couldn't throw receivers open, he couldn't/wouldn't throw into small windows, and he couldn't keep his eyes downfield when he was scrambling.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Ill be willing to bet a lot of money the Browns offense under Tyrod will be better than the Bills under McCarron. Tyrod will prove he's the better QB. 

 

If Tyrod starts and if McCarron starts (neither safe bets), I'm willing to believe that the Browns will have more offense than the Bills.

I'm not sure what it will prove about Taylor as a QB, since there will be differences in the OL and WR corps as well as the offensive scheme and oh yeah, them legs 'o Tyrods.

 

I think it's a valid point that the Bills were very mindful in what they did when they traded Tyrod for a 3rd, and that it wasn't as much about the money and the draft pick as I thought at the time (though it did get us Edmunds so Woot!).   

 

I also doubt it was because they thought they'd get more total offensive productivity out of McCarron than a properly-used and supported Taylor (arms + legs).

 

It's my theory that they already knew who their likely QB targets were (Beane did say in his Combine interview, he told his staff to "build the board as though they were drafting tomorrow") and they saw McCarron as a better overall "fit" for what Daboll wants to do, not only schematically and as a player on the field, but in the QB room.  I base the latter from the fact that Daboll would surely have deep access to Saban's in-depth knowledge of McCarron as a player and a person.

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

It also requires a WR that can get downfield in a hurry and make you pay though. That was part of what was wrong last year. People knew Tyrod could throw deep, but we didn't have a threatening presence to go out and catch it like Sammy, or even Goodwin, was.

 

With an arm like Allen's I'm not sure it matters as much. Tyrod would throw a good deep ball when his vertical WR had a couple steps of separation, so he needed a burner to be successful on downfield throws. Allen can fit throws into tight windows at every level of the field so he doesn't necessarily need a speedster who can get separation. Most of the college highlights people post of Allen are him making crazy throws across his body and somehow getting the ball to his receiver. But the best throws I saw on his tape were downfield boundary throws in tight windows. That kind of throw will be what makes him special if he finds consistency. And it just so happens that Kelvin Benjamin is the type of WR that you need to make those kinds of throws consistently. I see what McBeane is going for and I like the plan. Now we have to execute.

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

With an arm like Allen's I'm not sure it matters as much. Tyrod would throw a good deep ball when his vertical WR had a couple steps of separation, so he needed a burner to be successful on downfield throws. Allen can fit throws into tight windows at every level of the field so he doesn't necessarily need a speedster who can get separation. Most of the college highlights people post of Allen are him making crazy throws across his body and somehow getting the ball to his receiver. But the best throws I saw on his tape were downfield boundary throws in tight windows. That kind of throw will be what makes him special if he finds consistency. And it just so happens that Kelvin Benjamin is the type of WR that you need to make those kinds of throws consistently. I see what McBeane is going for and I like the plan. Now we have to execute.

But defenses aren't going to back out of the box because of Benjamin. And the other receivers on our team haven't been too great when it comes to contested catches. I definitely think we're still missing our 'take the top off' guy. I'm just not sure the guy they wanted was available to us at this point this offseason.

[Sky Diver]

TT was good at scrambling and could make plays with his legs, but his overall output was anemic. He couldn't score points, and he was terrible clutch time.

 

TT and McCarron each played in 1 playoff game. McCarron threw for 212 yrds, rushed for 9 yrds and had 1 TD and had 1 INT. TT threw for 134 yrds, rushed for 27 yrds and 0 TD and 1 INT. McCarron had the game won until the Bengals gave the game away. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Teams aren't afraid of anything McCarron can do. They will absolutely stack the box because his arm isn't strong enough to challenge them over the top. Furthermore our opponents will no longer need to keep a spy on the QB and worry about his mobility. McCarron is an ideal backup QB because he can manage games but he will not make the special play that pushes you over the top. If Allen develops quickly and can start this year Shady will become more effective because teams will have to respect his arm.

 

Why do you think this?   "Over the top" isn't McCarron's problem.  Never has been, despite reports-watch the film**.  He can actually fling it downfield well enough - maybe not in a lake-effect swirling wind, but well enough.  It's more the sideline routes where he has to throw the ball with zip to get it in there before the DB can ballhawk.  And part of that seems sometimes mental - needs to process faster and throw with better anticipation.  It may go with lack of actual playing time.

 

The problem we had last year wasn't a QB who couldn't throw deep, it was lacking WR who could get downfield in a hurry and be counted on to make the play, either get the ball or draw the PI

 

** there's a fantastic clip out there, couldn't turn it up right now, where two TV announcers are droning on about how AJ McCarron can't push the ball down the field, he's a game manager - WHILE ON THE VIDEO BEHIND THEM, AJ McCarron is doing just that, pushing the ball down the field with several long completions for a score.  It is hysterically funny.  I looked for it, just as a little offering to our resident 'Bama guy , if I find it later I'll tuck it in.

[Sky Diver]

TT wasn't horrible. Horrible was RJ, Losman and EJ, but he wasn't the guy who was going to take you to the next level. A great OL and great WRs would have helped, but I still don't think he would have gotten the job done. He lacked too many basic calls to even approach being elite. Do I think McCarron will be elite? No, but I think he is more serviceable than TT.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

TT was good at scrambling and could make plays with his legs, but his overall output was anemic. He couldn't score points, and he was terrible clutch time.

 

TT and McCarron each played in 1 playoff game. McCarron threw for 212 yrds, rushed for 9 yrds and had 1 TD and had 1 INT. TT threw for 134 yrds, rushed for 27 yrds and 0 TD and 1 INT. McCarron had the game won until the Bengals gave the game away. 

 

Tyrod is gone and I don't really want to revisit the "was Tyrod really so terrible" debate in a thread about AJ McCarron.  Suffice it to say that there were many differences between the Bengals team in McCarron's playoff game, and the Bills team in Tyrod's playoff game, and move on.

 

What I think *is* important and a very valid point is that I think it's true McCarron is much better in the passing game than Tyrod was.  His footwork and timing, and his ability to read the D and make progressions, look like those of a capable NFL QB.   For whatever reason, Tyrod never seemed able to "get it".  As you say, he made offense with his legs instead.

 

6 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

TT wasn't horrible. Horrible was RJ, Losman and EJ, but he wasn't the guy who was going to take you to the next level. A great OL and great WRs would have helped, but I still don't think he would have gotten the job done. He lacked too many basic calls to even approach being elite. Do I think McCarron will be elite? No, but I think he is more serviceable than TT.

 

I agree with this, in the sense of "servicable in the conventional passing game". 

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

But defenses aren't going to back out of the box because of Benjamin. And the other receivers on our team haven't been too great when it comes to contested catches. I definitely think we're still missing our 'take the top off' guy. I'm just not sure the guy they wanted was available to us at this point this offseason.

 

No, they'll back out of the box because of Allen's arm if he proves he can use it effectively. They will always have to worry that he will throw the ball downfield regardless of how fast our receivers are. I still want a burner, I'm hoping Foster becomes that guy, but it isn't as necessary as it was for Tyrod.

[Sky Diver]

Plus McCarron was a lot cheaper, which frees up money to be spend elsewhere.

[HappyDays]

17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

It's more the sideline routes where he has to throw the ball with zip to get it in there before the DB can ballhawk

 

This is exactly the kind of throw that Allen can make with proficiency, and why defenses will mostly have to stay out of the box. Again this is all dependent on Alllen proving he can read NFL defenses and make throws accurately.

[BuffaloHokie13]

6 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

TT was good at scrambling and could make plays with his legs, but his overall output was anemic. He couldn't score points, and he was terrible clutch time.

 

TT and McCarron each played in 1 playoff game. McCarron threw for 212 yrds, rushed for 9 yrds and had 1 TD and had 1 INT. TT threw for 134 yrds, rushed for 27 yrds and 0 TD and 1 INT. McCarron had the game won until the Bengals gave the game away. 

His overall output was anemic? Over the past 3 years TT averaged 222.1 yards of offense per game. In the 5 games AJ played significant time in, he averaged 199.8 yards of offense per game. TT averaged 1.477 TDs per game, AJ averaged 1.400. Tyrod's TD% was 3.96, AJ's was 3.72. Certainly you also think AJ's overall output was anemic when given significant play time as well, right?

 

As far as clutch time goes, in AJ's playing time he had exactly 1 4th quarter TD. And 0 4th quarter TDs when the game was within 7 points. link

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

His overall output was anemic? Over the past 3 years TT averaged 222.1 yards of offense per game. In the 5 games AJ played significant time in, he averaged 199.8 yards of offense per game. TT averaged 1.477 TDs per game, AJ averaged 1.400. Tyrod's TD% was 3.96, AJ's was 3.72. Certainly you also think AJ's overall output was anemic when given significant play time as well, right?

 

As far as clutch time goes, in AJ's playing time he had exactly 1 4th quarter TD. And 0 4th quarter TDs when the game was within 7 points. link

 

The numbers don't support AJM as the better QB despite the fact that he had a much stronger supporting cast. 

[Bfanlc]

On the super great offensive team the Bengals AJ qb'd them to the same amount as points vs the Steelers as did the Andy Dalton led Bengals in 2015. He also had a better rating 68% to 64%. How did he perform as well as a full time starter when he has had less games? People just love to hate. 

[Jpsredemption]

Who is Johnny Kinsley?

 

[26CornerBlitz]

38 minutes ago, Bfanlc said:

On the super great offensive team the Bengals AJ qb'd them to the same amount as points vs the Steelers as did the Andy Dalton led Bengals in 2015. He also had a better rating 68% to 64%. How did he perform as well as a full time starter when he has had less games? People just love to hate. 

 

The offense simply was not as good with AJM at the helm. 

 

On 5/7/2018 at 9:58 AM, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Best to temper expectations.

 

Signing AJ McCarron is probably not a good idea

 

The majority of McCarron’s passes in the NFL so far came over his three starts at the end of the 2015 season. Over that stretch, the Bengals beat the 49ers and Ravens, each of whom finished 5-11, and lost in overtime to the eventual Super Bowl-champion Broncos.

 

McCarron completed 54 of his 83 passes (65.1 percent) over that stretch with four touchdowns and no interceptions. That may look impressive and was good enough for a 100.1 passer rating as a starter, but the problem was that the Bengals’ offense slowed to a crawl.

 

He averaged just 184 passing yards in those games, stalling an offense that averaged 376.9 yards in Dalton’s 13 starts. With McCarron at the helm for the final three games, Cincinnati averaged 276 yards and couldn’t top 300.

 

That continued into the postseason, where the Bengals lost 18-16 to the Steelers and were outgained 369 yards to 279.

 

Even during McCarron’s days at Alabama, he had a reputation as a game manager who leaned on a strong running game and an NFL-caliber cast around him. Hoping he can generate offense on his own and lead a team to points with his arm may be too much to ask.

 

[billsredneck1]

20 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

No, they'll back out of the box because of Allen's arm if he proves he can use it effectively. They will always have to worry that he will throw the ball downfield regardless of how fast our receivers are. I still want a burner, I'm hoping Foster becomes that guy, but it isn't as necessary as it was for Tyrod.

i'm intrigued by this guy. i don't think he managed getting up to where he was expected. may be a good fit for the bills.

 

he's from central pa. he's 6'2" 194 and ran a 4:41 40 at the combine. however as a junior he is listed as having ran a 4:31 40 and the deep ball is supposed to be his gig.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

43 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The offense simply was not as good with AJM at the helm. 

 

Why do you not consider the possibility that the HC and OC wanted to KISS (keep it simple stupid) to help the young AJM in his game by not putting too much  pressure on him?  

 

Also he played 3 of 4 games against good teams. In 3 regular season and 1 playoff games had 6 TD's and 3 INT's.   He had had 2 TD's and 2 INT's in the game where he came in off of the bench against the Steelers.  

 

He won 2 and lost 1 in OT by 3 points to the Super Bowl Winning Bronco's. 

 

The Steelers playoff game he had the lead and was marching to score again before the ball was fumbled on the Steelers 9 giving it back to Pitt with about 1:30 on the clock.   Then shortly after Burfict and another dumbass had back to back 15 yard penalties that put the Steelers in position to kick the winning FG.  

 

 If it were Superbackup Jimmy G you'd be lauding him as a hero!!!!

 

The guy you LOVE Jimmy G  had 83.7 ypg passing in his 2 game starts in NE. 

In his 5 game starts in SF he had 7 TD's and 5 INT's!   That is 1 Less start, 1 Less TD and 1 Less INT than the 2nd year AJ McCarron.  

 

I know you can see this post.  So please answer the question put forward.    Why you have so much against this AJ McCarron? 

 

Does anyone that has an issue with AJMcCarron care to speak to his accomplishments with his Tyrod Taylor type passing #'s? 

 

 

I am not saying AJM will be great, I just don't see how anyone can say he will fail at this time. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[Stank_Nasty]

38 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Why do you not consider the possibility that the HC and OC wanted to KISS (keep it simple stupid) to help the young AJM in his game by not putting too much  pressure on him?  

 

Also he played 3 of 4 games against good teams. In 3 regular season and 1 playoff games had 6 TD's and 3 INT's.   He had had 2 TD's and 2 INT's in the game where he came in off of the bench against the Steelers.  

 

He won 2 and lost 1 in OT by 3 points to the Super Bowl Winning Bronco's. 

 

The Steelers playoff game he had the lead and was marching to score again before the ball was fumbled on the Steelers 9 giving it back to Pitt with about 1:30 on the clock.   Then shortly after Burfict and another dumbass had back to back 15 yard penalties that put the Steelers in position to kick the winning FG.  

 

 If it were Superbackup Jimmy G you'd be lauding him as a hero!!!!

 

The guy you LOVE Jimmy G  had 83.7 ypg passing in his 2 game starts in NE. 

In his 5 game starts in SF he had 7 TD's and 5 INT's!   That is 1 Less start, 1 Less TD and 1 Less INT than the 2nd year AJ McCarron.  

 

I know you can see this post.  So please answer the question put forward.    Why you have so much against this AJ McCarron? 

 

Does anyone that has an issue with AJMcCarron care to speak to his accomplishments with his Tyrod Taylor type passing #'s? 

 

 

I am not saying AJM will be great, I just don't see how anyone can say he will fail at this time. 

I can’t speak for most and I havnt said much on this topic as of late but my main gripe is with individuals like you that want no part of any excuse for Taylor and then you go on to have a long list of them in a post like this for McCarron. But then again you’ve always been fairly shameless on bending arguments to fit your narrative. Stats matter sometimes for you. Sometimes they don’t. Excuses matter for you.... but then sometimes they don’t. Bottom line is McCarron had a much better team around him in 15 than Taylor has ever had and didn’t produce any better than Taylor ever has. 

 

He might end up being better. I sure hope he is. I’m holding out hope that he will be based on a couple more years of learning and experience since his lackluster fill-in job. But there is no real proof he’ll be an upgrade.  Anyone acting like they know McCarron will be better based on past performance is making themselves look silly. I’m not saying you in particular. I just mean in general. 

 

It’s comical to me seeing some of the same people that bagged on Taylor and his production are hyping McCarron. It makes slim to no sense. 

[Sky Diver]

21 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

His overall output was anemic? Over the past 3 years TT averaged 222.1 yards of offense per game. In the 5 games AJ played significant time in, he averaged 199.8 yards of offense per game. TT averaged 1.477 TDs per game, AJ averaged 1.400. Tyrod's TD% was 3.96, AJ's was 3.72. Certainly you also think AJ's overall output was anemic when given significant play time as well, right?

 

As far as clutch time goes, in AJ's playing time he had exactly 1 4th quarter TD. And 0 4th quarter TDs when the game was within 7 points. link

 

3 pts in a playoff game isn't going to cut it. I don't need to see the  statistics, I watch the games.

 

I think this is an accurate assessment.

 

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2018/01/tyrod_taylor_ranked_dead_last_among_playoff_qbs_by_cbs_sports_pete_prisco.html

Edited May 9, 2018 by Sky Diver