Every Josh Allen TD pass in 2016/2017

[The Now Moment]

19 hours ago, ngbills said:

Rodgers was extremely accurate. I was at many Cal practices and it was amazing to watch. Go watch the Cal v USC game when he completed like 20 straight oasses. This is not Allen.

 

In terms of throwing downfield, I included the Tyrod videos at V Tech to show how willing he is throw downfield. He did so in college and early on with the bills. 

 

For the record Tyrod had limited weapons. KB was useless with his injuries. Jones was a huge disappointment. 

I did not compare the prospects of Rodgers and Allen.  If you read carefully, I said his potential is what Rodgers is in the NFL now.  He has the incredible arm talent that only a handful of QBs have ever had and the sneaky mobility to make plays both in an out of the pocket.  He goes for the big chunk plays like Rodgers does.  I did not say his accuracy was on par with Rodgers and b no means is he the same prospect coming out of college.  Don't change my words.

 

As for Tyrod, Benjamin is not a player that will get open because of his speed.  He thrives on the jump ball and Tyrod was unwilling to throw it to him.  Tyrod last year did not throw the ball down the field like he had earlier in his career.  His unwillingness to throw the ball into tight windows and trust his receivers hurt him and the offense.  The Nathan Peterman's throw to Benjamin down the sideline in the Colts game is exactly how Tyrod should have been using KB but he just wasn't willing to make those throws.  He was covered but the throw was placed high where KB could go get it.  

 

Say all you want about having limited weapons, all you need to do is watch the game film to see Tyrod missed open receivers.  I liked Tyrod but he had his limitations.

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

You must have made a lot of money with your scouting skill back then.

 

What NFL scouts told the Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn before the draft about quarterback Aaron Rodgers:

 

I would bet my life savings that one of those AFC scouts was a Bills scout.

[ngbills]

5 hours ago, FearLess Price said:

 

These are facts everyone forgets. When he had Sammy and at least Goodwin on the field, he was looking for the chunk play downfiled. KB isnt burning anyone with his speed and Zay Jones had a bad rookie season. Either way we need tp get JA the right weopons for him to succeed.  Our WR room is still meh. We still have no #1 WR

Yes - Its not about liking Tyrod or liking Allen. The QB of this team needs better weapons. 

[BigDingus]

Just realized this was all the 2016 season, nothing from last season.

Also, the majority were good TD passes, but there are a few things worth mentioning.

- He's at his best rolling out to his right

- His 3 & 4 TD games come against bad teams except for Boise State (UC Davis, Air Force, UNLV, and San Diego State)

- Good amount of play action (although it's out of shotgun)

- WR's had to make some great catches, but that's true of all QB's from time to time

- A couple of TD passes wouldn't have been TD's in the NFL (need both feet down)

- Against Big Conference teams, he was 0-3 with 1 TD and 8 INT's 

- Against Nebraska, he had a Nathan Peterman-esque game, throwing for 5 INT's.

 

Also, his 2016 season was FAR more successful than his 2017 season. He threw for half as many yards, and less than half the amount of TD's in 2017, as well as having a lower passer rating (his INT's went down too though). He did play 2 less games overall however.

It's fun seeing his TD's in a vacuum, but it's also not even close to a true picture of his playing abilities. Whether he looks good, bad, whatever, it's just a fun way to look back at certain moments. Thanks for the video.

[ngbills]

4 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

You must have made a lot of money with your scouting skill back then.

 

What NFL scouts told the Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn before the draft about quarterback Aaron Rodgers:

 

Rich Snead, Tennessee: "He had to go to a JC because no one would recruit him because they said he was too small. He's been busting his (expletive) his whole life to get to this point. I just don't know how much more he has to give."

 

AFC scout: "I think he has some upside although there are some things that are just ordinary about him."

 

NFC scout: "I think he has a good chance of being a bust. Just like every other Tedford-coached quarterback. Thing I struggle with him is he gets sacked a lot. He doesn't have great ability to change the release of the football. He's mechanically very rigid. Brett Favre can change his release point and find different windows. There will be more growing pains with Alex Smith but in the end he has a much better chance to be much better."

 

NFC scout: "The guys that Tedford has had, what have they developed into? They're too well-schooled. So mechanical. So robotic. I don't know if they become good pro players. I think Rodgers is in that same mold."

 

AFC scout: "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine. Heady guy. They do a marvelous job of coaching quarterbacks there. I don't think he's as good as the top quarterbacks coming out last year."

 

AFC scout: "I don't think he's in the class of the quarterbacks that came out last year. Strong arm. Pretty good athlete. Still has some holes in his game."

 

AFC scout: "He's a system quarterback. 3-, 5-, 7-step guy. Can't create on his own. Panics under pressure. Gets flustered easy. I don't think there's a quarterback in the draft worthy of a first-round pick. I'm dead serious. None of them are worth it."

 

NFC scout: "He fit right into the Cal system. He probably executed that as well as anybody. He doesn't have as strong an arm as Boller but can make the same reads and play the scheme as well as Boller did."

I expected SF to take him #1 that year. I would have taken him in a heartbeat at the time. Like I said I watched him in practice all the time as I was working with the Cal sports dept at the time. The guy had it and it was obvious. Go watch his game vs USC. Look at how he elevated that team and what they were without him. 

[Wayne Arnold]

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I would bet my life savings that one of those AFC scouts was a Bills scout.

 

Haha actually the Bills scout said the following...

 

Marc Ross, Buffalo: "He's a little short. The thing you worry about is those (Jeff) Tedford guys. They don't do anything for a couple years and then they have a good year or two. Who of his quarterbacks has done what they're supposed to do? None of them. Is he just working magic with great college quarterbacks or just manufacturing guys?"

[BigDingus]

3 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

I did not compare the prospects of Rodgers and Allen.  If you read carefully, I said his potential is what Rodgers is in the NFL now.  He has the incredible arm talent that only a handful of QBs have ever had and the sneaky mobility to make plays both in an out of the pocket.  He goes for the big chunk plays like Rodgers does.  I did not say his accuracy was on par with Rodgers and b no means is he the same prospect coming out of college.  Don't change my words.

 

As for Tyrod, Benjamin is not a player that will get open because of his speed.  He thrives on the jump ball and Tyrod was unwilling to throw it to him.  Tyrod last year did not throw the ball down the field like he had earlier in his career.  His unwillingness to throw the ball into tight windows and trust his receivers hurt him and the offense.  The Nathan Peterman's throw to Benjamin down the sideline in the Colts game is exactly how Tyrod should have been using KB but he just wasn't willing to make those throws.  He was covered but the throw was placed high where KB could go get it.  

 

Say all you want about having limited weapons, all you need to do is watch the game film to see Tyrod missed open receivers.  I liked Tyrod but he had his limitations.

 

I'm not sure how much of Allen I'd compare to Rodgers, but yes, Allen has a fantastic arm. If he's willing to throw deep (or if our now even worse O-line will let him) he can find a lot of success.

In regards to Tyrod, you're spot-on. Benjamin isn't a speedy receiver. He's fast enough to get open, but his skillset highlights his ability to run routes and catch 50/50 (or better) passes over DB's. Benjamin is a great weapon, make no mistake about it. Tyrod refused to throw him open, or throw him any jump balls. However, that was Tyrod's problem with all receivers last year. 

90% of the time, Tyrod would only throw to WR's that were open by 5 feet on all sides of the ball, or within a few yards of the line of scrimmage. He wasn't just risk-adverse, he was downright timid. People used to say he was "efficient" because he didn't throw INT's....but as one NFL writer explained when discussing Kirk Cousins, "efficient" isn't just not throwing INT's, it's also being alert of what's going on around you, and general awareness of game time situations (i.e. if you're down by 20+ late in the 3rd quarter, and it's 3rd & 13, is it "efficient" to drop back for 1 second, then dump the ball off to your RB for a 2 yard gain?). 

Tyrod at his best was at least good for 1 or 2 deep balls a game in his first 2 seasons. He still only barely scraped by hitting 3,000 yards in a season, but still, managed to make a few plays. In 2017, Tyrod put Trent Edwards to shame. Every time he threw deep, it was almost as if he was doing it for show more than actually attempting to complete the pass. The balls would float several yards over both the WR & DB's heads, straight out of bounds, with no chance for anyone to catch the ball. It made it LOOK like he wanted to go deep, but without any intention for the ball to make it in the hands of anyone. 

Hopefully Allen plays with a little more fire, but also has the mindset to get over making mistakes. He'll throw some picks, but will he have the balls to keep attacking? We can only hope. 

/rant

6 minutes ago, ngbills said:

I expected SF to take him #1 that year. I would have taken him in a heartbeat at the time. Like I said I watched him in practice all the time as I was working with the Cal sports dept at the time. The guy had it and it was obvious. Go watch his game vs USC. Look at how he elevated that team and what they were without him. 

 

Here's the thing scouts, fans, and "experts" tend to overlook - having a veteran QB on the roster, and giving a rookie QB TIME to develop, are MASSIVELY important to the growth of the player.

Some QB's come in day 1 and do just fine all on their own. But many rookies, including those who start day 1, have an experienced veteran on the roster to help anchor them down, be someone to lean on when they're struggling, and learn how to properly lead an NFL locker room from. Even though Favre wasn't wanting to give up his starting spot, he still played a pivotal role in allowing Rodgers to gain experience & knowledge while he became acclimated to being in the NFL. 

[jethro_tull]

why do i actually need to watch him play when troy aikman said hes going to be a huge bust?

after watching the videos i dont think troy aikman ever watched him play. 

[The Now Moment]

44 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

I'm not sure how much of Allen I'd compare to Rodgers, but yes, Allen has a fantastic arm. If he's willing to throw deep (or if our now even worse O-line will let him) he can find a lot of success.

In regards to Tyrod, you're spot-on. Benjamin isn't a speedy receiver. He's fast enough to get open, but his skillset highlights his ability to run routes and catch 50/50 (or better) passes over DB's. Benjamin is a great weapon, make no mistake about it. Tyrod refused to throw him open, or throw him any jump balls. However, that was Tyrod's problem with all receivers last year. 

90% of the time, Tyrod would only throw to WR's that were open by 5 feet on all sides of the ball, or within a few yards of the line of scrimmage. He wasn't just risk-adverse, he was downright timid. People used to say he was "efficient" because he didn't throw INT's....but as one NFL writer explained when discussing Kirk Cousins, "efficient" isn't just not throwing INT's, it's also being alert of what's going on around you, and general awareness of game time situations (i.e. if you're down by 20+ late in the 3rd quarter, and it's 3rd & 13, is it "efficient" to drop back for 1 second, then dump the ball off to your RB for a 2 yard gain?). 

Tyrod at his best was at least good for 1 or 2 deep balls a game in his first 2 seasons. He still only barely scraped by hitting 3,000 yards in a season, but still, managed to make a few plays. In 2017, Tyrod put Trent Edwards to shame. Every time he threw deep, it was almost as if he was doing it for show more than actually attempting to complete the pass. The balls would float several yards over both the WR & DB's heads, straight out of bounds, with no chance for anyone to catch the ball. It made it LOOK like he wanted to go deep, but without any intention for the ball to make it in the hands of anyone. 

Hopefully Allen plays with a little more fire, but also has the mindset to get over making mistakes. He'll throw some picks, but will he have the balls to keep attacking? We can only hope. 
 

Yes, that was my point.  Allen is better suited for this team and what we are trying to do.  I really want to see the connection of Allen to Benjamin.  That's got some special potential.  The Rodgers comparison is due to Allen's traits.  He's mobile and throws very well outside the pocket deep down the field.  Aaron Rodgers does this better than anyone in the league and I think Allen has that potential at his best if he ever makes it there.  He's so young and has much to learn but I think he is coming into a great situation.  He'll have a solid defense and running back to start with and Benjamin and Clay are very talented but weren't utilitzed enough with Tyrod.  Zay is young and has something to prove and O'leary has some nice hands for a second tight end.  Mccoy is perfect for a young QB, we wouldn't have to rely on the rookie for every point.  If Allen becomes anything close to his potential...this team will be back in business.

[wppete]

 

[Wayne Arnold]

51 minutes ago, jethro_tull said:

why do i actually need to watch him play when troy aikman said hes going to be a huge bust?

after watching the videos i dont think troy aikman ever watched him play. 

 

Could be wrong but I don't think Aikman ever said he watched him play. Just hopped on the "inaccuracy" bandwagon and said "I think as a quarterback when you're inaccurate, from my experience as a player in studying these guys for the last 17 years, you usually do not overcome that."

[Bill_with_it]

On 5/3/2018 at 2:53 PM, HappyDays said:

 

Nice video, thanks for the original research.

[Paulus]

WYO Vision...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 5/5/2018 at 4:46 PM, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Haha actually the Bills scout said the following...

 

Marc Ross, Buffalo: "He's a little short. The thing you worry about is those (Jeff) Tedford guys. They don't do anything for a couple years and then they have a good year or two. Who of his quarterbacks has done what they're supposed to do? None of them. Is he just working magic with great college quarterbacks or just manufacturing guys?"

 

This just makes me sad.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

On 5/5/2018 at 5:05 PM, jethro_tull said:

why do i actually need to watch him play when troy aikman said hes going to be a huge bust?

after watching the videos i dont think troy aikman ever watched him play. 

 

 

exactly. aikman is nothing more than an overpaid blowhard...

[John from Riverside]

On 5/5/2018 at 2:37 PM, BigDingus said:

Just realized this was all the 2016 season, nothing from last season.

Also, the majority were good TD passes, but there are a few things worth mentioning.

- He's at his best rolling out to his right

- His 3 & 4 TD games come against bad teams except for Boise State (UC Davis, Air Force, UNLV, and San Diego State)

- Good amount of play action (although it's out of shotgun)

- WR's had to make some great catches, but that's true of all QB's from time to time

- A couple of TD passes wouldn't have been TD's in the NFL (need both feet down)

- Against Big Conference teams, he was 0-3 with 1 TD and 8 INT's 

- Against Nebraska, he had a Nathan Peterman-esque game, throwing for 5 INT's.

 

Also, his 2016 season was FAR more successful than his 2017 season. He threw for half as many yards, and less than half the amount of TD's in 2017, as well as having a lower passer rating (his INT's went down too though). He did play 2 less games overall however.

It's fun seeing his TD's in a vacuum, but it's also not even close to a true picture of his playing abilities. Whether he looks good, bad, whatever, it's just a fun way to look back at certain moments. Thanks for the video.

His receivers were better quality in 2016 as well......

On 5/5/2018 at 3:45 PM, wppete said:

 

I am in love