Magox Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 After watching all his throws in 8 of his games, it's become pretty damn apparent that the knock on him for not being an accurate passer is waaaaay overblown. I don't care what that completion percentage showed, I know what I saw and what I saw was someone who throws the 10+ yard passes pretty damn accurate. And the criticism that he doesn't throw with much touch is also bogus. He can put some touch on some throws, as evidenced in the Senior Bowl. What he needs help with are his swing and short passes. He tends to throw high. And he needs help with his decision making, he sometimes throws those crazy across the field throws on the run. Having said that, he played for freaking Wyoming. That team was only winning 2-4 games a year before he joined and all of a sudden they won a whole lot more with him as QB. Meaning he was the entire offense and for that team he took the team upon his shoulders and took lots of risks. I don't believe he will do that nearly as much in the pros. Don't get me wrong, he should be slinging it down the field when he's extending plays because those broken plays can net some homeruns and he is definitely a homerun passer. But he'll temper some of the silly stuff that he did in college because he will learn to play within the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: I actually do. I am not forecasting anything. All I said was his climb doesn't disappear just because he's the Bills QB and because fans want it to disappear. I'm not saying anything negative about him. These are facts. Oh ok, I thought you believing the same unproven rhetoric. My apologies. The climb doesn't disappear for any college player drafted - you're right. I just wanted to be sure to say his isn't any higher of a climb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joevan Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 We Have A. J. McCarron for 2 years, Nathan Peterman for 3 more years and Josh Allen for five years, so why hurry getting Allen in there. Let’s find out what we have in McCarron and Peterman while Allen gets situated into being a pro. Worst case, if we sit Allen this year is that we have the next four years for him to show his stuff. Best case scenario is that one of the others steps up and becomes a top flight quarterback. This gives us options for the future. Let’s narrow things this year by giving reps to McCarron and Peterman and whoever wins faces off against Allen next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Here's a plan for the Bills to get the most out of Josh Allen, and it involves Cam Newton When creating a scheme for Allen, the Bills should look to a quarterback head coach Sean McDermott knows well by Chris Trapasso By drafting Josh Allen, the Bills took the biggest risk of all the teams that selected a quarterback in the first round of the 2018 NFL Draft. Despite being the most physically-imposing quarterback to enter the NFL in some time, the Wyoming product joins the league with three major flaws to his game. That combination led to Allen being one of the most polarizing signal-caller prospects of the last decade, but he was still a top-10 pick. The moment his name was announced by Roger Goodell, I was confused as to why the Bills decided to take a risk on such a dicey project at quarterback in this draft of all drafts, and I'm skeptical it will work out for him in Buffalo. My concerns with Allen are as follows: Lack of consistent accuracy Habitually leaving the pocket at the first sign of pressure Tendency to "overextend" plays while improvising, frequently throwing off-balance into precarious situations We've seen what kind of QB he is while running for his life and without very much talent around him. What kind of QB is he with some time and a few playmakers like Mccoy and Benjamin...we will see soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 (edited) I like that Josh Allen has size. That means he might come with durability. I like that people say he can be athletic. Yes I seen the criticism on some of the plays that they showed. He could of made some better choices on some of the plays. So he has some learning to do. It might not be a hot start for Allen. Then I see on some of the plays that he actually can make good decisions and really can make perfect plays. So at the very least he is capable of doing the right things at least sometimes. It left me more motivated about the pick. You drafted the body of NFL QB that might be able to learn to make NFL plays. So they are betting on being able to to coach him up. He scored good on tests. Shows intelligence. I am in favor of this pick now. I'm a Josh Allen fan. He has potential to be franchise. I think Mayfield on the Browns is a bust no matter what statistics wise. So that leaves the Darnold vs Allen rivalry as each one fights for the top of the division next few years and the Patriots fall off the map because Tom Brady is very old. Oh and Rosen turns out to be to weak for the NFL. Edited May 3, 2018 by Lfod 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 27 minutes ago, Magox said: After watching all his throws in 8 of his games, it's become pretty damn apparent that the knock on him for not being an accurate passer is waaaaay overblown. I don't care what that completion percentage showed, I know what I saw and what I saw was someone who throws the 10+ yard passes pretty damn accurate. And the criticism that he doesn't throw with much touch is also bogus. He can put some touch on some throws, as evidenced in the Senior Bowl. What he needs help with are his swing and short passes. He tends to throw high. And he needs help with his decision making, he sometimes throws those crazy across the field throws on the run. Having said that, he played for freaking Wyoming. That team was only winning 2-4 games a year before he joined and all of a sudden they won a whole lot more with him as QB. Meaning he was the entire offense and for that team he took the team upon his shoulders and took lots of risks. I don't believe he will do that nearly as much in the pros. Don't get me wrong, he should be slinging it down the field when he's extending plays because those broken plays can net some homeruns and he is definitely a homerun passer. But he'll temper some of the silly stuff that he did in college because he will learn to play within the system. Nice post, I agree with much of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 31 minutes ago, Magox said: After watching all his throws in 8 of his games, it's become pretty damn apparent that the knock on him for not being an accurate passer is waaaaay overblown. I don't care what that completion percentage showed, I know what I saw and what I saw was someone who throws the 10+ yard passes pretty damn accurate. And the criticism that he doesn't throw with much touch is also bogus. He can put some touch on some throws, as evidenced in the Senior Bowl. What he needs help with are his swing and short passes. He tends to throw high. And he needs help with his decision making, he sometimes throws those crazy across the field throws on the run. Having said that, he played for freaking Wyoming. That team was only winning 2-4 games a year before he joined and all of a sudden they won a whole lot more with him as QB. Meaning he was the entire offense and for that team he took the team upon his shoulders and took lots of risks. I don't believe he will do that nearly as much in the pros. Don't get me wrong, he should be slinging it down the field when he's extending plays because those broken plays can net some homeruns and he is definitely a homerun passer. But he'll temper some of the silly stuff that he did in college because he will learn to play within the system. Thank you and I agree. I wish more people would take the time to see there's an argument against this accuracy mantra being placed on Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Isn't the real question here whether or not the Bills should have traded 3 #1 picks (12, 22 and 2019 #1) for Darnold vs trading 12, and two 2nd's from this years draft for Josh Allen and Edmunds? Is Darnold really worth that? Is Darnold significantly less risky than Allen? Can any of us honestly say that we know that at this point in time? I have to assume for now at least, that Beane has "nailed it". I think he has earned that much by all the moves he has made since coming here. I remember just a short time ago people on this site were praising Beane for getting pick #65 for Tyrod from Cleveland and now some people here think they are a better judge of talent than Beane? Really?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Turtle Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 It makes sense to focus on Allen's strengths instead of his weaknesses. He's easily the most talented QB on the Bills roster, but if the Bills coaching staff is going to keep him on the bench while trying to turn him into a rhythm passer, Allen will turn into a bust. Allen is more Roethlisberger than he is Brady. Keeping him on the bench while trying to turn him into a dink and dunk passer is a waste of everybody's time. His strengths are throwing to the sidelines, using play action, and extending plays to throw downfield. Build the offensive game plan around that and watch opposing defense move the eighth man out of the box, letting Shady run wild. Oh, and start him week 1. Let him learn on the field. He has enough skills and nerve to overcome his mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 1 minute ago, DefenseWins said: Isn't the real question here whether or not the Bills should have traded 3 #1 picks (12, 22 and 2019 #1) for Darnold vs trading 12, and two 2nd's from this years draft for Josh Allen and Edmunds? Is Darnold really worth that? Is Darnold significantly less risky than Allen? Can any of us honestly say that we know that at this point in time? I have to assume for now at least, that Beane has "nailed it". I think he has earned that much by all the moves he has made since coming here. I remember just a short time ago people on this site were praising Beane for getting pick #65 for Tyrod from Cleveland and now some people here think they are a better judge of talent than Beane? Really?? This kind of thinking means no GM should be questioned for the decisions they make solely because they are in charge of an NFL front office as if they will make no mistakes. We know this is simply not the case and in especially so when it comes to picking QBs. It's a faulty argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I am very excited however, my heart won't allow me to believe McDermott believes any of this. My heart wont allow me to believe Daboll is capable of being this flexible as to change his whole scheme comfort zone. My main reason for such a low approval of the draft stems from my not understanding who is going to be on the other end of that moon shot. I really wanted to acquire at least 1 legit WR for Allen to develop with. Get him 1 more component to the O line. I just feel like you do all that work to move up for your "franchise" guy, you have to assemble a team around d him. FA and the draft havent really done that yet. I cant wait to see that ball travel over the 300 level (not really) of New Era to to a non glass Marquis Goodwin type player who just embarrasses his defender streaking for the score. I want people here to be ready for Allen to be TERRIBLE. For the Bills to potentially take step back while Allen figures it all out. I definitely wont be an I told you so guy (I wanted Rosen). I just want to be wrong about all this. I want to see the shift. Will Pegs Beane and McD trust HIS process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 2 hours ago, horned dogs said: I have very little respect for his ability to anaylze QBs after following him this spring prior to the draft. Hell for that matter all his ratings were weird. When I compared his position ratings to a consensus of the other experts he was always the outlier. If you liked his QB rankings, you’d REALLY enjoy his WR stuff. I’m all for deviating from the norm a bit, but he’s wayyyy out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 articles like these, while well written, presume that Allen will not work to improve his game. If the support system is put in place and he commits himself we may have a Pro Bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 2 hours ago, White Linen said: Stopped reading after this: By drafting Josh Allen, the Bills took the biggest risk of all the teams that selected a quarterback in the first round of the 2018 NFL Draft. Well he was the worst one of all the QBs drafted in the first round by a considerable margin. I actually think he's pretty spot on with how the kid could have some success. The bills would be wise to invest heavily in elite WRs over the next couple years. a couple boasting extreme catch radius and body positioning and a game breaking threat to limit the amount of shots we have to take when they pan out. Larry Fitzgerald in his prime comes to mind. that guy put up 1700 yards with anyone under center. 5 minutes ago, stuvian said: articles like these, while well written, presume that Allen will not work to improve his game. If the support system is put in place and he commits himself we may have a Pro Bowler. Historically, it hasn't proven possible over any sort of sample size to significantly improve a QB following college. There are a lot of articles/research about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Cease Fires Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Historically, it hasn't proven possible over any sort of sample size to significantly improve a QB following college. There are a lot of articles/research about it. QBs improve in many areas post college all the time. It's gains in completion percentage that are hard to come by (but not impossible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Josh Allen is the anti-Tyrod. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said: Well he was the worst one of all the QBs drafted in the first round by a considerable margin. I actually think he's pretty spot on with how the kid could have some success. The bills would be wise to invest heavily in elite WRs over the next couple years. a couple boasting extreme catch radius and body positioning and a game breaking threat to limit the amount of shots we have to take when they pan out. Larry Fitzgerald in his prime comes to mind. that guy put up 1700 yards with anyone under center. Historically, it hasn't proven possible over any sort of sample size to significantly improve a QB following college. There are a lot of articles/research about it. I started to respond with actual thought but it's just not worth it. Ok, it's not possible for QB's to improve. 1 hour ago, No Cease Fires said: QBs improve in many areas post college all the time. It's gains in completion percentage that are hard to come by (but not impossible). Actually the good ones improve in accuracy often. While throwing more passes. Rodgers, Ryan, Wilson, Brady, Brees all have. I just picked those in a row, so there wasn't one that didn't that I picked. I'm sure there's more that have and maybe only a few that haven't . It's actually common for the good ones to improve - so absolutely no reason Allen can't, especially since he's already not inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I have a great idea for getting the most out of Allen: trade him now for a better QB before teams catch on that he sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, White Linen said: I started to respond with actual thought but it's just not worth it. Ok, it's not possible for QB's to improve. Actually the good ones improve in accuracy often. While throwing more passes. Rodgers, Ryan, Wilson, Brady, Brees all have. I just picked those in a row, so there wasn't one that didn't that I picked. I'm sure there's more that have and maybe only a few that haven't . It's actually common for the good ones to improve - so absolutely no reason Allen can't, especially since he's already not inaccurate. Yea, not really. The data shows that the best QBs in the league usually fall 2-3% within their college numbers. I've actually done the research back to the 83 draft and outside of Brees, Favre, Ryan and Moon it holds shockingly consistent. Kelly, Marino, Elway, Roethlisberger, Newton, both Mannings, Rivers, Prescott, all the guys listed below and a ton more follow this exact same phenomenon. Also worth mentioning that only Moon and Favre had numbers below acceptable in college and brought them up to pro-standard. brees and Ryan were already good to go. Can it happen? Sure. Does it occur with any statistical significance? No, not really. Successful teams pick prospects based on percentages and risk/reward. Hoping for a QB to jump from 55% to 60% is like buying a lottery ticket and expecting to win. Tom Brady: College 61.9% Pro 63.9% Aaron Rodgers: College 63.8% Pro 65.1 % Russel Wilson: College: 57.8%(NC) 72% (WI) 60.1%(Overall) Pro 64% Drew Brees: College 61.1% Pro 66.9% Matt Ryan: College 59.9% Pro 64.9% Edited May 3, 2018 by BullBuchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 5 hours ago, NewEraBills said: Well, his nightmare continues here unfortunately, at least for now. I don't think that is necessarily true, Kelvins frame alone gives him separation, and when the ball is in the air he can battle for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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