Josh Allen and E. J. Manuel

[TigerJ]

My apologies for yet another thread on Josh Allen, but I didn't know how to introduce this thought line into an existing thread without derailing it. 

 

Yeah, I get that the failure of EJ Manuel probably affects the thinking of at least some fans about Josh Allen.  In somoe respects they are very similar.  Both are big dudes.  Both have the vaunted huge hands.  Both are fairly athletic.  Josh Allen has the bigger arm, but EJ Manuel was no slouch in his arm strength.  Both had some deficiencies in their college game.  That's about where the similarities end.

 

The deficiencies are quite different.  Both needed to work on processing quickly, but Manuel was governed by tentativeness.  Like Tyrod, he wouldn't upll the trigger until he could see his receiver was open.  That's OK on some pace plays, but on many plass plays if you wait that long, the ball is going to be late.  Josh Allen is not afraid to fling the ball around, yet he is not a great reader of defenses, and probably needs to be more discriminating in the throws he makes.  Though he didn't start at Florida State for four years, Manuel did have a good amount of time in that program.  Allen went to community college and Wyoming.  There was more of a likelihood that Manuel's deficiencies were deeply ingrained and he wasn't going to change..  We don't know if Allen can change or not, but his general lack of experience gives us at least some reason to think he can learn given more time and good coaching. 

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

Just now, TigerJ said:

Both needed to work on processing quickly

 

You don't fix this at the NFL level, it's why most QB's bust.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

People used to always say how strong EJs arm was. I’m not exaggerating, I can’t ever remember seeing him throw a ball hard. Ever. I never knew where that built in attribute came from. If he had a strong arm, he certainly never proved it during a Bills game. Thad Lewis looked like his arm was twice as live when they threw next to each other. EJ was probably the worst QB in the league while he was on the Bills. I hope Allen is not like EJ.

[ngbills]

I will say its easy to fling it when your playing for Wyo. Put Tyrod out there he would be flinging it. Lets see if he can fling it when he has to make his read quicker, faces schemes and adjustments, has a more complex offense. 

[Original Byrd Man]

22 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

My apologies for yet another thread on Josh Allen, but I didn't know how to introduce this thought line into an existing thread without derailing it. 

 

Yeah, I get that the failure of EJ Manuel probably affects the thinking of at least some fans about Josh Allen.  In somoe respects they are very similar.  Both are big dudes.  Both have the vaunted huge hands.  Both are fairly athletic.  Josh Allen has the bigger arm, but EJ Manuel was no slouch in his arm strength.  Both had some deficiencies in their college game.  That's about where the similarities end.

 

The deficiencies are quite different.  Both needed to work on processing quickly, but Manuel was governed by tentativeness.  Like Tyrod, he wouldn't upll the trigger until he could see his receiver was open.  That's OK on some pace plays, but on many plass plays if you wait that long, the ball is going to be late.  Josh Allen is not afraid to fling the ball around, yet he is not a great reader of defenses, and probably needs to be more discriminating in the throws he makes.  Though he didn't start at Florida State for four years, Manuel did have a good amount of time in that program.  Allen went to community college and Wyoming.  There was more of a likelihood that Manuel's deficiencies were deeply ingradie and good coaching. 

My complaint about Allen are his struggles against inferior competition and his inaccuracy.  I hope they can be overcome but I have my doubts.  

[MarlinTheMagician]

31 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

People used to always say how strong EJs arm was. I’m not exaggerating, I can’t ever remember seeing him throw a ball hard. Ever. I never knew where that built in attribute came from. If he had a strong arm, he certainly never proved it during a Bills game. Thad Lewis looked like his arm was twice as live when they threw next to each other. EJ was probably the worst QB in the league while he was on the Bills. I hope Allen is not like EJ.

 

 

Totally agree.  Aiming the ball?  Weird delivery.  Check out Allen on Youtube - short thing called Soul and Science or something.  Dude throws the ball 74 miles an hour.  A football!  I was a decent high school pitcher, but I could not throw a freakin baseball that hard.

 

A big difference in the two for me:  They traded down and took EJ.  They were settling because QB desperate.  Here, they traded UP to get the guy they wanted over Josh Rosen.  Whether he was "their man" or not (will never know if they had Baker or Arnold higher) - they made the move to get him.  They wanted him; and they just didn't want Rosen.  Respect.

[Beast]

42 minutes ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

You don't fix this at the NFL level, it's why most QB's bust.

 

You most certainly can but carry on.......so cute.

[eball]

EJ Manuel was the #1 or #2 rated QB in a terrible class, and he was picked 16th by a team that absolutely had to draft a QB.

 

Josh Allen was in the conversation for #1 pick overall in a QB class rated very highly.

 

They ain't the same guy.  Not even close.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

no comparison what so ever but keep trying OP, keep trying.

[GG]

Allen's platitudes are coming from more people than the school janitor

[Fadingpain]

47 minutes ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

You don't fix this at the NFL level, it's why most QB's bust.

Bingo!  

[GoBills808]

Difference for me is that if Allen had played at Florida State he might have been the highest rated prospect of all time, whereas if Manuel had played at Wyoming most likely we'd have never heard of him.

[Green Lightning]

Unfortunately, there's no choice but to live with this pick. My new hobby is going to be looking at quarterbacks in the 2020 draft. That should be about the time AJ's up and we need one.

[Roundybout]

56 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

People used to always say how strong EJs arm was. I’m not exaggerating, I can’t ever remember seeing him throw a ball hard. Ever. I never knew where that built in attribute came from. If he had a strong arm, he certainly never proved it during a Bills game. Thad Lewis looked like his arm was twice as live when they threw next to each other. EJ was probably the worst QB in the league while he was on the Bills. I hope Allen is not like EJ.

 

I noticed this too. Even the Orton Express had more of an arm than EJ, which was weird. 

[Putin]

15 minutes ago, eball said:

EJ Manuel was the #1 or #2 rated QB in a terrible class, and he was picked 16th by a team that absolutely had to draft a QB.

 

Josh Allen was in the conversation for #1 pick overall in a QB class rated very highly.

 

They ain't the same guy.  Not even close.

This ^^^ 

I never cared or watched college football until I met my wife in 1991 when she was a student at FSU and had season tickets , 

long story short been a die hard FSU fan ever since , one of the worst moments as a Bills fan ( besides the 4 SB loses ) was drafting EJ 

I was hoping ( as a proud diehard Bills fan ) that somehow he ( EJ ) would prove me wrong , but deep down inside I knew and couldn’t believe what a huge mistake we’ve made , 

 I couldn’t agree more with you ?

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

52 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

You most certainly can but carry on.......so cute.

 

Thanks, I am quite cute.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

53 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

You most certainly can but carry on.......so cute.

 

Processing quickly?  It seems logical that you should be able to, but wondering, do you have some examples in mind of NFL QB who improved in this regard?

[Beast]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Processing quickly?  It seems logical that you should be able to, but wondering, do you have some examples in mind of NFL QB who improved in this regard?

 

What I do know is Allen has probably received “decent”, not top flight, coaching for two years of his life. I’d be willing to bet a lot of money he didn’t have that in JUCO or High School.

 

The level of coaching, on the field and in the film/classroom, he is about to receive is a tremendous upgrade over that of which Darnold, Mayfield or Rosen had.

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Processing quickly?  It seems logical that you should be able to, but wondering, do you have some examples in mind of NFL QB who improved in this regard?

First two that come to mind are Wentz and Goff. The game was too fast for them their rookie years and it showed. Then they got coached up, studied hard, added some offensive talent and things started clicking. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

People used to always say how strong EJs arm was. I’m not exaggerating, I can’t ever remember seeing him throw a ball hard. Ever. I never knew where that built in attribute came from. If he had a strong arm, he certainly never proved it during a Bills game. Thad Lewis looked like his arm was twice as live when they threw next to each other. EJ was probably the worst QB in the league while he was on the Bills. I hope Allen is not like EJ.

Absolutely.  EJ was aiming or guiding the ball like a guy learning to play darts.  And given his resume I never understood why the Bills would ever consider him worthy of a 1st round selection.  I get the Allen pick.  Allen throws with velocity.  Some like Allen, some don't, some would rather have Rosen.  But the guy has talent and a lot more potential to be very good.  The question is can he transform that potential to results on the field?