What I Don't Understand About Fan Reaction to Allen

[HappyDays]

Bill the fanbase has seen this episode before. Allen gives us flashbacks to Losman and Manuel because his scouting report is very similar. It's the same reason the fanbase would have hated Lamar Jackson as the pick, because we just got done with Tyrod Taylor. We are sick of trying to outsmart the league and pick QBs on traits that don't win Super Bowls. We're sick of picking QBs based on their ability to play in the snow. We've seen Tom Brady rewrite the history books with an average arm, but elite accuracy and mental processing. Josh Allen does not have those traits and it scares us that we're waltzing down the same dumb path we've been on again and again this millennium.

Now all that being said I am warming up to the pick. A) because I have to, and B) because there are people who have watched a lot of his throws and concluded that he has elite potential. People on this board even. And I can't dismiss their opinions outright. So I am hoping and praying this pick will not be a disaster. I like his personality, I like that he ran a pro system at Wyoming, I like that for the first time in his life he'll be playing with legitimate talent. And of course everyone loves his arm. I'll focus on the positives until Allen proves me wrong. I expect most of his detractors will do the same once the shock wears off.

Edited April 27, 2018 by HappyDays

[Nihilarian]

I really don't get all the lamentation over this draft so far.

 

Buffalo Bills fans should be doing backflips and worshiping Beane for his titanium balls in being patient not overpaying for Josh Rosen at the #2 spot.

 

The Bills not only got their future franchise QB in the first round they also got a stud ILBer with the 16th pick in the first 

[JM57]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

Read what Jordan Palmer has to say about this young man.

 

https://clutchpoints.com/nfl-draft-news-josh-allen-thinks-inaccuracy-talk-blown-proportion/

 

 

Why am I not surprised that a prospect's paid private coach had good things to say about him? Talk him up. Make sure he gets drafted high. You get to add #7 overall pick to your resume. 

1 hour ago, greeneblitz said:

Hate to break it to you but all your bleacher report "scouting reports" don't mean jack **** compared to actual NFL scouts, This front office had done everything imaginable to prove that they have excellent judgement in both the draft and free agency, messageboad GMs are just gonna have to watch and learn.

What is it like to have blind faith in a group of evaluators that have shown as a whole they are terrible at evaluating and projecting quarterbacks?

57 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

Comparisons, comparisons.

 

I just saw one that compared him to Brett Favre.

 

Let’s relax and see what we have.

I'll eat a sneaker if he's Brett Favre.

[racketmaster]

28 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

There is also a huge difference between Boller and Allen. Boller played four years at Cal and his Comp percentage was 38.6, second year, 46.7, third-year 49.3 and his senior year 53.4. Allen was only a two year player at Wyoming and his first year his completion percentage was 56.0 and his senior year was 56.3 which really isn't that far from 60%.

 

Billick was also an arrogant jackass in thinking he could fix Boller.

 

 

 

 

Thank you. Fans who love Rosen will tell you that he is the most accurate and polished passer in the draft and usually those same persons will tell you that Allen has terrible accuracy (56% to 60%). The narrative being pushed about their accuracy does not seem to be "accurate".

[Nihilarian]

1 minute ago, JM57 said:

Why am I not surprised that a prospect's paid private coach had good things to say about him? Talk him up. Make sure he gets drafted high. You get to add #7 overall pick to your resume. 

He also worked with Sam Darnold along with Allen.

 

Not only that he also helped Deshaun Watson last offseason, how did that work out? 

 

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/QB-guru-Deshaun-Watson-is-dynamic-leader-/f3b72e98-249f-43c9-8c7b-4913226c3fff

[Virgil]

3 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I have been on this wonderful board for many, many years. Now, I am reading these posts that are absolutely hating the Allen pick and it is hard to understand why. Almost every season, I was on this board blasting yet another idiotic first round pick by the Bills. For instance:  A #8 (in a stacked draft) on an undersized Donte Whitner? How about a 1st on a half dead Willis McGahee? In 2008 we had a very poor OL. It was awful. We drafted Leotis McKelvin, passing up both Ryan Clady and Branden Albert.

 

I could go on and on but my point is that fans were generally supportive of these clearly stupid picks. Now, we finally use resources on a big, strong quarterback and most people seem to hate the kid. Why? Because he said stupid things when he was a toddler? Because he went to a small school?

 

After what seemed like forever, we took a chance on solidifying the most important position on the field. We moved up to make sure we landed a qb with a cannon arm. What is SO freaking bad?

 

I for one am glad that we did something smart (for a change) in round 1, and welcome this young man to Buffalo.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hey Bill, good to see a post from you again. 

 

I personally am really torn on the pick.  If it wasn’t for the new regime and Maylock having Allen rated so high, I’d be a lot angrier, but not for the reasons you stated.  

 

Of the Big 4, Allen was the one I wanted the least and we still traded up for him.  Others pointed out his stats, competition, and accuracy issues already to which I agree with. 

 

The fact that he was taken over Rosen made it worse. The fact that neither the Giants nor Broncos ended up wanting a QB, leaving the option of a trade for Darnold made it worse. 

 

But overall, we gave up so much to get another project and I’m just tired of hoping a guy proves me wrong. QB’s that normally don’t go first overall still have college success that make you think he’ll have a chance. Russell Wilson was a winner. Big Ben had a high completion percentage, etc. Allen doesn’t have anything to me besides an arm and height. That doesn’t translate without the accuracy and acumen.  Those are two things rarely seen fixed. 

 

I can honestly say I wish they would have traded back a few spots for their LB, traded back from 22 and taken Lamar, and then used the rest of the picks for WR, OG, C, OLB, DB. 

 

And yes, I hated the idea of Lamar as early as yesterday.  But I’d rather have the picks and take a chance on him than what we gave up for Allen.  We gave up two potential starters, which we desperately need, for him. 

 

But like everyone, I want to be proven wrong. I want Allen to be the guy for the next 15 years.  I just don’t see it and it’s the first moment that I’ve lost faith in Beane and McDermott

Edited April 27, 2018 by Virgil

[BuffaloRebound]

I actually like that Allen has a lot of doubters. Less pressure and more motivation to prove everybody wrong.  Beane is clearly swinging for the fences with the Allen pick.  And the Edmunds pick for that matter.  These guys have All Pro potential.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

42 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

There is also a huge difference between Boller and Allen. Boller played four years at Cal and his Comp percentage was 38.6, second year, 46.7, third-year 49.3 and his senior year 53.4. Allen was only a two year player at Wyoming and his first year his completion percentage was 56.0 and his senior year was 56.3 which really isn't that far from 60%.

 

Billick was also an arrogant jackass in thinking he could fix Boller.

 

 

 

 

 

Which he so stated. Just hoping we aren’t dealing with the same 

[Mike in Syracuse]

2 hours ago, T-Bomb said:

 

And fans like you are simply useless tbh...

 

No matter what dumbass FO this organization hires, you just sit there with your thumb up your ass, drinking the KoolAid, assuming the FO can do no wrong, because they are "your Bills".  Whatever colossal draft mistake they make, you'll support it in lemming-like fashion,  It's pathetic.

 

Loser fans deserve a loser franchise I guess...

This front office is in their 2nd year.   In their first year, they broke a 17 year playoff drought and drafted 3, maybe 4 solid starters.

 

The problem with your position is that it is entirely based on the belief that Allen will fail miserably.     You have a right to have an opinion on the pick but that doesn't mean your right nor does it support the narrative you've created.

 

If he doesn't fail miserably, it's unlikely you'll be walking around telling everyone how much you hated this pick an how positive you were he would be a failure.

[RFL]

2 hours ago, 4thandGoal said:

my opinion is that QB is the most important position and basically Jim Kelly was out last great/good QB.  there will be people in the football media world that will give the Allen pick a low grade and the Allen haters will stand by these people .   

Ive seen grades from A+ to F

[Sky Diver]

Love the pick and we didn't give up too much to get him. Some projected him as going first overall.

 

Will he be a star? Time will tell. There's no sure thing in the draft, but he's smart and he has an elite skill set.

 

Now get him some offensive linemen and wide receivers.

[Mike in Syracuse]

1 hour ago, Kemp said:

I would have thought that all fans are tired of hearing yeah he's got some accuracy issues, but we can fix that.

 

If you're inaccurate in college and are now facing bigger, faster, and smarter players, things will get better.

 

Now we know this regime has zero belief in analytics. They FEEL that things will be okay.

Accuracy issues in college are a tricky statistic.   The final measurable is the result of numerous variables.    Wrong reads, wrong routes etc.   Bottom line is, everything can go right and the WR can still drop the ball.   It's entirely possible that Allen isn't the most accurate passer in the draft.   It's also entirely possible that the rest of the players around him are downright awful.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Mike in Syracuse

[4thandGoal]

6 minutes ago, RFL said:

Ive seen grades from A+ to F

and that sounds accurate... people will love this pick or hate it,,  just wondering if the haters will support him or bash him for every thing he does

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

 

Now, we went after a big strong QB who might also be good. I would much rather miss with a qb than waste another prime pick on a db or rb. 

 

Most of us would have rather missed on Rosen. He is the QB that projects to be a Manning/Brady type if things go well. Or we could have traded a bunch of picks to the Giants and taken Darnold. It isn't that we took a QB, it's that we're concerned we picked the wrong one when there were better options on paper.

[CajunBillsBacker]

I just sit back and laugh at these clowns. My favorites are the ones who play the EJ Manuel/JP Losman card. That’s the trump card for those who don’t know what the hell they are talking about.

[Mike in Syracuse]

1 hour ago, Greywolf said:

My opinion isn't based on anything off the field. Allen is a very inaccurate passer. Mediocre completion rate. Overthrows open receivers under pressure. Underthrows open receivers under pressure. Drafted too high and put into a position where, if AJ doesn't perform, Allen may be forced onto the field well before he's ready (just like another recent project who was ruined this way) behind a shaky O-line and with not a super receiver corps.

 

I'm rooting for the guy because I don't want anyone to fail, but I have strong doubts. I hope the Bills prove me wrong. Any confidence I have is due to my thinking that McDermott and Beane are much sharper judges of talent than their predecessors.

Nathan Peterman had a 60% completion percentage in college.    It's one measurable based on infinite variables.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Couldn't agree more.  I'll be honest, I would have taken Rosen.  But as Beane said each of the QBs in this class had positives and negatives.  They liked Allen's positives.

 

Some  compare this pick to EJ.  To me it's JP.  Same big arm and stuff but JP never could handle the mental aspects of the position.  Will Allen be able to?  We'll see.  But I'd say the same for all the QBs drafted this year.

Allen had highest Wunderlik of this QB class?

3 hours ago, ALF said:

I would feel better if the Bills had a real QB coach and veteran QB to mentor Allen.  

A.J?

[BeginnersMind]

51 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Here is the thing I have never understood about QB prospects like Josh Allen:

Scouts always say he has the biggest upside, the highest ceiling and the most potential. 

 

BUT WHY?

 

Is it because the guy is 1-2 inches taller and 10-20 pounds heavier than the average NFL Quarterback?

I can understand why scouts are skeptical of short guys.  There are numerous problems associated with field vision on guys under 6'1.   But I don't see how a guy who stands 6'5 holds any advantage over someone who stands 6'4.  It's totally irrelevant towards how good a guy can be.

 

Is it because of his arm strength, and the fact he can throw an 80-yard bomb? 

Once again, I can understand how scouts would be concerned about a guy with a weak arm.  But once it's clear a QB can make all of the necessary NFL throws without an issue, how is arm strength even a factor?  Most of the NFL greats have had very average arms (Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Joe Montana).  There are obviously NFL greats with strong arms (Marino, Elway), but it wasn't just because of how hard/fast they could throw a football.

 

Is it because of his athletic ability, and how well he can run?

Well OK.  I guess I can see that being a really nice skill to have.  Except 99% of the offensive coordinators in the pros completely refuse to take advantage of that kind of talent, and always try to force their QBs into being standard pocket passers, with running as an absolute last resort. 

 

 

 

I've been watching this sport for 30+ years.  The greatest quarterbacks are ALWAYS those who can calmly/quickly read a defense, make smart decisions about where to throw, and then get the ball there accurately.  I have NEVER seen an NFL quarterback succeed long-term without these characteristics.  Size, arm strength and athletic ability are pointless, unless you can also develop these parts of your game.  These are all areas that Allen needs a TON of work. 

 

 

 

 

Favre succeeded despite a million INTs because he could sling it. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, Roch-A-Bill said:

I agree - haters gonna hate. Guy's super likeable, to boot - a great QB? Ask again in three years - same can be said for all the QBs.

 

...seriously?....three years from the TBD pundits?......he may get  a half in the second pre-season game and then pundits here will start a GoFundMe page for his one way bus ticket outta town....hell, they may even include McBeane/McD/McDaboll.....four on the bus and they can play euchre.....SMH....

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

Allen had highest Wunderlik of this QB class?

A.J?

Yep.  I hope his Wunderlik transposes to him reading defenses, etc.  We'll see.