Ramza86 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 It was a rhetorical question. We do. Im very worried for the safety of whoever is our QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM57 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Great post. Ask a question you already think you know the answer to with nothing else to add. Thanks for contributing 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 To me, this is a terrible question to ask. It assumes we have a starting 5 already LOL. Let's focus on getting talent for a starting 5 first, then we can assess how good or bad they are in comparison to others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, JM57 said: Great post. Ask a question you already think you know the answer to with nothing else to add. Thanks for contributing You can still give an opinion dummy. Yes we have a horrible O line not to mention horrible WRs. If shady can do his best Barry Sanders impression we'll be decent if we acquire a solid MLB 2 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: To me, this is a terrible question to ask. It assumes we have a starting 5 already LOL. Let's focus on getting talent for a starting 5 first, then we can assess how good or bad they are in comparison to others So between WR, QB, LB, and O line and our strong supposition that we dump our draft capital for 1 QB, we probably add 1 late round OL best case scenario and some PS players. Can't see it changing very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 0-16 confirmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Bangarang said: 0-16 confirmed Not really. But dead QBs confirmed, most likely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 There are 5 or 6 around the league worthy of consideration. Ours is in the conversation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Do we have the worst starting offensive line in the league? No. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Only on paper.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 QB, LB, then nothing but OL. That's my vote, in order, for the entire draft. Just stock up on beef castles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 No it is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Costa Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Middle of the road. Cordy was a non factor last year Wood was average. Incognito was above average but turning 35 soon. Groy was as good as Wood two years ago. My hope is Miller can get back to his form from two years ago. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 46 minutes ago, Ramza86 said: It was a rhetorical question. We do. Im very worried for the safety of whoever is our QB. Back in ?2012? when Gailey was HC and had moved on from George Edwards to Dave Wannstadt (to the tune of much misplaced fan rejoicing), we had Marcell Dareus in his 2nd year and signed FA Mario Williams, and folks on this board went absolutely crazy about how we now "had the best DL in the league on paper!" Well, then we started playing games on turf on Sunday and our wonderful DL sure didn't look that great. So let's hypothesize, for a second, that we have the worst OL in the league "on paper", having lost our starting Center and LG and having the R side of the line be a weak spot last year. First, let's wait and see what happens in the draft and afterwards. Second, let's remember that football games are played on turf, on Sunday, and that's when we're going to learn what this year's OL is really like - not before. Sorry not to have a better answer, but that's going to be the situation any time you don't have 5 starters return, and it would apply even if we had signed two big name FA on the OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryland-bills-fan Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) Here is an old post comparing a couple of good Bills lines with what we have at the moment. Criteria are just the # of pro bowls and also the draft pick value spent on the line. The present line is pretty poor compared to the past good lines. I think TT hid some of the faults of the line, because he was a threat to scramble for big gains and that retarded the pass rush, lead to containment strategies and he often had a spy watching him. I don't think you can win for long with a rushing QB. How does the Bills o-line stack up against those of previous glory years? I think there were 3 previous periods when the Bills were good. The first was I the old AFL days but that is hard to evaluate since there were two leagues that for many years (until Broadway Joe) not evenly matched. The other two were the “Electric company” years and the K-gun years. There are a range (and I mean a range) of opinions as to how the Bills should proceed in this year's draft and the run from “Trade this and next year's draft for sure-thing QB X” (etc), through, trade up a little maybe, to “work on a foundation and draft QB in the 2nd or 3rd round. You might wonder how much in the way of higher draft picks those good Bills teams spent on their offensive line. Different eras, different styles of play were involved but where the players were drafted and how dominate they were compared to their peers gives an indication. Here is some rough information. =================================================The Electric Company.Position............player........,,,,,,,....draft pick............pro bowls. OT....................Foley,...................1st (#26)..............1 OG..................McKenzie.............2nd (#27)...............1 C......................Montler.................2nd (#32).............0 OG.................DeLamielleure.........1st (#26)..............6 OT...................Green......................5th (107)............0 TE....................Seymour................1st (#7)...............0 A few comments. The pro bowl is a bit of a popularity contest and some great players were shut out by some of the all time greats. Seymour was drafted as an offensive tackle but played TE and as a 6th O-lineman helped block for OJ. …. Okay, a summary5of 6 drafted in the first two roundscost was 3360 total “draft points”8 pro bowl spots==============================================1992 BillsPosition............player........,,,,,,,....draft pick............pro bowls. OT...............Wolford …...............1st (#20)..................3 OG..............Richert.......................1st (#16)..................2 C..................Hull........................... ..??.........................3 OG..............Parker........................3rd (#69)..................0 OT …...........Ballard.....................11th (283).................2 TE...............McKeller....................9th (227)..................0 A few comments: Hull came over from the Generals where he signed before the 1983 NFL draft. McKeller only played one year of college football and was a basketball player who was a good receiver in the “K” gun offence.2 of 6 (more like 3 if Hull included) drafted in the first two roundscost was 2065 points not including Hull 10 pro bowl spots.================================================== ==1995 Bills Position............player........,,,,,,,....draft pick............pro bowls. OT.............Fina..........................1st (#27).....................0 OG............Brown......................1st (14th).....................8 pro bowls ! C..................Hull........................... ..??.........................3 OG..............Ostroski.................10th (271)....................0 OT …..........Parker.....................3rd (60)........................0 TE................Johnson.................2nd (61)......................03 of 6 ( 4 if Hull included) drafted in the first 2 roundscost was 2372 not counting Hull11 pro bowls spots2018 Bills (as of 4/9/18)Position............player........,,,,,,,....draft pick............pro bowls. OT............Dawkins.......................2nd (#63)...................0 OG............Incognito....................3rd (#81)....................4 C …...........Gray.............................UFA.. ........................0 …..............Boline.........................4th (#111)..................0 OG............Ducasse......................2nd (#61)...................0 OT............Mills............................5th (#163)..................0 TE............Clan............................6th (#174)..................02 of 6 in the 1st 2 rounds412 cost4 pro bowl spots========================================= 2018 Bills (as of 4/10/18) If Incognito actually has retiredPosition............player........,,,,,,,....draft pick............pro bowls. OT............Dawkins.......................2nd (#63)...................0 OG …...........Gray.............................UFA.. ........................0 C...............Boline.........................4th (#111)..................0 OG............Ducasse......................2nd (#61)...................0 OT............Mills............................5th (#163)..................0 TE............Clan............................6th (#174)..................02 of 6 in the 1st 2 rounds 227 cost 0 pro bowl spots So if you want to give Ken Hull a rating of middle the 2nd round (420 points)?? these would come out as Electric Company..........3360 1992 Bills.....................2465 1995 Bills.....................2792 2018 Bills......................412 or 227 Okay, you can find o-line gems in the lower rounds. BUT, I really think we have to pay serious attention to the o-line before we are back in the big time Edited April 21, 2018 by maryland-bills-fan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said: Here is an old post comparing a couple of good Bills lines with what we have at the moment. Criteria are just the # of pro bowls and also the draft pick value spent on the line. The present line is pretty poor compared to the past good lines. I think TT hid some of the faults of the line, because he was a threat to scramble for big gains and that retarded the pass rush, lead to containment strategies and he often had a spy watching him. I don't think you can win for long with a rushing QB. How does the Bills o-line stack up against those of previous glory years? I think there were 3 previous periods when the Bills were good. The first was I the old AFL days but that is hard to evaluate since there were two leagues that for many years (until Broadway Joe) not evenly matched. The other two were the “Electric company” years and the K-gun years. There are a range (and I mean a range) of opinions as to how the Bills should proceed in this year's draft and the run from “Trade this and next year's draft for sure-thing QB X” (etc), through, trade up a little maybe, to “work on a foundation and draft QB in the 2nd or 3rd round. You might wonder how much in the way of higher draft picks those good Bills teams spent on their offensive line. Different eras, different styles of play were involved but where the players were drafted and how dominate they were compared to their peers gives an indication. Here is some rough information. =================================================The Electric Company.Position............player........,,,,,,,....draft pick............pro bowls. OT....................Foley,...................1st (#26)..............1 OG..................McKenzie.............2nd (#27)...............1 C......................Montler.................2nd (#32).............0 OG.................DeLamielleure.........1st (#26)..............6 OT...................Green......................5th (107)............0 TE....................Seymour................1st (#7)...............0 A few comments. The pro bowl is a bit of a popularity contest and some great players were shut out by some of the all time greats. Seymour was drafted as an offensive tackle but played TE and as a 6th O-lineman helped block for OJ. …. Okay, a summary5of 6 drafted in the first two roundscost was 3360 total “draft points”8 pro bowl spots==============================================1992 BillsPosition............player........,,,,,,,....draft pick............pro bowls. OT...............Wolford …...............1st (#20)..................3 OG..............Richert.......................1st (#16)..................2 C..................Hull........................... ..??.........................3 OG..............Parker........................3rd (#69)..................0 OT …...........Ballard.....................11th (283).................2 TE...............McKeller....................9th (227)..................0 A few comments: Hull came over from the Generals where he signed before the 1983 NFL draft. McKeller only played one year of college football and was a basketball player who was a good receiver in the “K” gun offence.2 of 6 (more like 3 if Hull included) drafted in the first two roundscost was 2065 points not including Hull 10 pro bowl spots.================================================== ==1995 Bills Position............player........,,,,,,,....draft pick............pro bowls. OT.............Fina..........................1st (#27).....................0 OG............Brown......................1st (14th).....................8 pro bowls ! C..................Hull........................... ..??.........................3 OG..............Ostroski.................10th (271)....................0 OT …..........Parker.....................3rd (60)........................0 TE................Johnson.................2nd (61)......................03 of 6 ( 4 if Hull included) drafted in the first 2 roundscost was 2372 not counting Hull11 pro bowls spots2018 Bills (as of 4/9/18)Position............player........,,,,,,,....draft pick............pro bowls. OT............Dawkins.......................2nd (#63)...................0 OG............Incognito....................3rd (#81)....................4 C …...........Gray.............................UFA.. ........................0 …..............Boline.........................4th (#111)..................0 OG............Ducasse......................2nd (#61)...................0 OT............Mills............................5th (#163)..................0 TE............Clan............................6th (#174)..................02 of 6 in the 1st 2 rounds412 cost4 pro bowl spots========================================= 2018 Bills (as of 4/10/18) If Incognito actually has retiredPosition............player........,,,,,,,....draft pick............pro bowls. OT............Dawkins.......................2nd (#63)...................0 OG …...........Gray.............................UFA.. ........................0 C...............Boline.........................4th (#111)..................0 OG............Ducasse......................2nd (#61)...................0 OT............Mills............................5th (#163)..................0 TE............Clan............................6th (#174)..................02 of 6 in the 1st 2 rounds 227 cost 0 pro bowl spots So if you want to give Ken Hull a rating of middle the 2nd round (420 points)?? these would come out as Electric Company..........3360 1992 Bills.....................2465 1995 Bills.....................2792 2018 Bills......................412 or 227 Okay, you can find o-line gems in the lower rounds. BUT, I really think we have to pay serious attention to the o-line before we are back in the big time Really good post! Thank you for making it! 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Ramza86 Posted April 22, 2018 Author Share Posted April 22, 2018 1 hour ago, JM57 said: Great post. Ask a question you already think you know the answer to with nothing else to add. Thanks for contributing You are very welcome sir. I just wanted to vent. I have a crystal ball...All i see is sacks...hurries and losses and maybe the NFLs first death on the field. RIP QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 55 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: You can still give an opinion dummy. Yes we have a horrible O line not to mention horrible WRs. If shady can do his best Barry Sanders impression we'll be decent if we acquire a solid MLB So between WR, QB, LB, and O line and our strong supposition that we dump our draft capital for 1 QB, we probably add 1 late round OL best case scenario and some PS players. Can't see it changing very much. You can look at this any way you want -- but the Bills have starting experience at every position. Dawkins - 11 Games and accounted well at LT Miller- Natural LG with 2 full seasons at RG Bodine - 4 years in Cincy Ducasse - Starter Mills - Starter Groy and Newhouse Granted the only potential star I see is Dawkins. However, Miller was developing well until the system was changed and this system may be a better talent fit. They have the draft - and this is a deep tackle and guard class with guys like Geron Christian, Martinas Rankin, Scott Quessenberry, Bradley Bozeman (Daboll's C at Alabama) and Joseph Noteboom available in the 3rd and 4th round. So the later rounds aren't normal camp fodder for O-Line in this draft. Then we will have post draft cuts. I am choosing to be a bit more optimistic, just like I am at Linebacker. Where, I think they have a deal in place with Dansby that he can shop until draft day (Minter and Compton already signed elsewhere but Dansby has not)..but I wouldn't be surprised if next Saturday afternoon they announce a deal with Dansby whether they get a LB or not. A young MLB like Jack Cichy or Josey Jewel (assuming we are drafting one in the 3rd or 4th) will need a mentor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Paul Costa said: Middle of the road. Cordy was a non factor last year Wood was average. Incognito was above average but turning 35 soon. Groy was as good as Wood two years ago. My hope is Miller can get back to his form from two years ago. So you're saying that: 1. We didn't improve over what we had last year at LT. 2. We have to find replacements for "average" LG and C, who, by definition, are worse players than the guys they failed to beat out. 3. But maybe a guy who got beat out by a journeyman RG will get better, even though he previously got worse. O.K., you convinced me! Middle of the road it is. 1 hour ago, JoeF said: You can look at this any way you want -- but the Bills have starting experience at every position. Dawkins - 11 Games and accounted well at LT Miller- Natural LG with 2 full seasons at RG Bodine - 4 years in Cincy Ducasse - Starter Mills - Starter Groy and Newhouse Granted the only potential star I see is Dawkins. However, Miller was developing well until the system was changed and this system may be a better talent fit. They have the draft - and this is a deep tackle and guard class with guys like Geron Christian, Martinas Rankin, Scott Quessenberry, Bradley Bozeman (Daboll's C at Alabama) and Joseph Noteboom available in the 3rd and 4th round. So the later rounds aren't normal camp fodder for O-Line in this draft. Then we will have post draft cuts. I am choosing to be a bit more optimistic, just like I am at Linebacker. Where, I think they have a deal in place with Dansby that he can shop until draft day (Minter and Compton already signed elsewhere but Dansby has not)..but I wouldn't be surprised if next Saturday afternoon they announce a deal with Dansby whether they get a LB or not. A young MLB like Jack Cichy or Josey Jewel (assuming we are drafting one in the 3rd or 4th) will need a mentor. And if that's how they line up to start the season, I'll just note their PFF grades last year: Dawkins - Average (but a rookie, so that's promising) Miller - Poor Bodine - Poor Ducasse - Average Mills - Poor You could probably upgrade by subbing Groy (Average) at C or LG. And, of course, I can't believe that they'll go into the season with an O line this bad. But let's be honest ... it is bad right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) How can anyone possibly even answer this question yet? We havent training camp. Or preseason, let alone any regular season games yet. So we haven't even seen any teams offensive line on the field yet. We haven't even had the draft yet... (and its supposed to be a good draft for interior linemen and centers (to some degree)). As of now we dont even know if the guys we have we have penciled in now will even be the Bills starters when the season begins. Beane very well could draft 2 O-linemen that earn starting jobs, and/or sign some veteran guys when team trim down their rosters. Edited April 22, 2018 by BillsFan4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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