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ESPN says we overpaid for Star

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You can never overpay for a  star....

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Posted (edited)
On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 11:30 AM, BillsfanAZ said:

I dont agree.  You are not a capital investor.  Aside from taxes, you are paying for product or a service so you are getting something of value in return for your purchase. That is like saying since you shop at Walmart you have the right to be upset if they spend money on new trucks or redecorating all their stores.  Once you exchange your money for a service or product, you are made whole with your purchase. As far as taxes go, you can be upset about taxes supporting the stadium and the Bills. You have the power of the vote to change where taxes get spent. 

My point is: Bills fans want the team to spend the salary cap money wisely so fans get better value at a better price for the product they purchase.
We all get it is not our money in a salary cap context.

 

on your point above: EX: If WalMart tricks out their semi's with color change paint, glow lights under the chassis, bouncing shocks, mega expensive sound system, oversized polyester mannequin of Mr Walton on top of trailers,  etc etc...….and because of that spending they must raise the cost of milk by 3 dollars a gallon, I have every right to complain that is stupid. Of course I could just stop buying milk but they are the only store in area selling it as they have a monopoly.

 

Seriously this is a salary cap issue. If team spends salary cap unwisely then team will not be as good as they have less money to acquire and keep good players, product will be poor, and I am less likely to buy it.

 

Assuming you are a Bills fan: would you say "I don't care" if Bills spent 99% of the salary cap on Aaron Maybin. ?

Edited by cba fan

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10 hours ago, cba fan said:

My point is: Bills fans want the team to spend the salary cap money wisely so fans get better value at a better price for the product they purchase.
We all get it is not our money in a salary cap context.

 

on your point above: EX: If WalMart tricks out their semi's with color change paint, glow lights under the chassis, bouncing shocks, mega expensive sound system, oversized polyester mannequin of Mr Walton on top of trailers,  etc etc...….and because of that spending they must raise the cost of milk by 3 dollars a gallon, I have every right to complain that is stupid. Of course I could just stop buying milk but they are the only store in area selling it as they have a monopoly.

 

Seriously this is a salary cap issue. If team spends salary cap unwisely then team will not be as good as they have less money to acquire and keep good players, product will be poor, and I am less likely to buy it.

 

Assuming you are a Bills fan: would you say "I don't care" if Bills spent 99% of the salary cap on Aaron Maybin. ?

I think you are right about value. It is perceived value. We as fans do not associate high dollar value with interior dlineman who do not show up on the stat sheet. The coaching staff puts a high value in allowing his LB's to run free. Hopefully Star eats up a lot of double teams this season. 

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ESPN also says our offensive skill players suck.

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11 hours ago, cba fan said:

My point is: Bills fans want the team to spend the salary cap money wisely so fans get better value at a better price for the product they purchase.
We all get it is not our money in a salary cap context.

 

on your point above: EX: If WalMart tricks out their semi's with color change paint, glow lights under the chassis, bouncing shocks, mega expensive sound system, oversized polyester mannequin of Mr Walton on top of trailers,  etc etc...….and because of that spending they must raise the cost of milk by 3 dollars a gallon, I have every right to complain that is stupid. Of course I could just stop buying milk but they are the only store in area selling it as they have a monopoly.

 

Seriously this is a salary cap issue. If team spends salary cap unwisely then team will not be as good as they have less money to acquire and keep good players, product will be poor, and I am less likely to buy it.

 

Assuming you are a Bills fan: would you say "I don't care" if Bills spent 99% of the salary cap on Aaron Maybin. ?

I am trying to understand the complaint

 

Now the complaint is that we should not do this because it will cause a Salary cap issue?   This is a arguement for the LAST management group in Buffalo not this one....in case you have not noticed Beane is taking his lumps on salary cap last year and this.....and we have a HUGE amount of salary cap space going into next year....the trading off of high priced players.....the drafting of a young qb on a cheap contract for years......the aquiring of talent at cheaper prices......the replacement of veterans that got paid huge money with draft picks that are actually performing better.

 

Yet we focus on this ONE aquisition which totally makes sense to this team because of a perceived overpayment......if we are going to complain about salary cap management and point to Star then it is only fair to also state the excellent salary cap moves that Beane has been making along with it.

 

Let us not forget.....we are not trying to win who has the best value of players (although we are winning it) its about biulding a winning team.

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On 7/10/2018 at 10:20 AM, NewEraBills said:

All I will say with Star is this.  What he does in the defense is not splashy.  But there are reasons why Luke, and K Short excel. 1.  They are good.  2.  There has to be someone else there to keep guys off of Luke and allow K Short to go 1v1. 

 

 PFF can't talk about him being ranked dead last, but they don't know the scheme and what he's being asked to do.  The Panthers were tough to run on and he is a big part of that.  If he can help that happen here then I'm good with it.  The thing with PFF is that I find it no coincidence that they are basing this off of tackle numbers.  In 2013 Star had 37 solo, 4 assists and 4 sacks and 7 tackles for loss.  But his numbers have declined every year since 2013 to a whopping 12 tackles in 2016  with 1 for loss and 15 in 2017 with 3 for loss.  They take these numbers and compare to other guys at the position then rank them.  That's fine but it doesn't factor in what a guy is being asked to do in a defense.

 

 

Did we overpay?  Maybe, but if his play allows Edmunds to run around and eat vs the run like Luke and our run defense is in the top 7 in the league then I'm fine with the overpay.

 

That's what makes football analytics so much harder than Baseball and even Basketball analytics. There are 11 players on the field vs. another 11 players, that's 22 moving parts some players with specialized roles and assignments that are hard to account for unless you are the coach that knows the assignment and role on that given play. 

 

Star might not grade out well because a lot of what he does is within the context of occupying players and holding the line of scrimmage. That could be a valuable utility that might not show up on how they grade metrics (If you aren't getting past the line of scrimmage that is a neutral to negative grade.) The success or failure of the Star signing is something that will be determined by how good or bad the run defense is. 

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12 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I am trying to understand the complaint

 

Now the complaint is that we should not do this because it will cause a Salary cap issue?   This is a arguement for the LAST management group in Buffalo not this one....in case you have not noticed Beane is taking his lumps on salary cap last year and this.....and we have a HUGE amount of salary cap space going into next year....the trading off of high priced players.....the drafting of a young qb on a cheap contract for years......the aquiring of talent at cheaper prices......the replacement of veterans that got paid huge money with draft picks that are actually performing better.

 

Yet we focus on this ONE aquisition which totally makes sense to this team because of a perceived overpayment......if we are going to complain about salary cap management and point to Star then it is only fair to also state the excellent salary cap moves that Beane has been making along with it.

 

Let us not forget.....we are not trying to win who has the best value of players (although we are winning it) its about biulding a winning team.

I agree with your well thought out post.

 

I was mainly attacking the thought of those who say 'its not my money why worry" and why that is an error in thinking in a salary cap context.

I kind of hijacked the OP a little sideways.

 

The Star signing fills a need and I like him on Bills. Did they overpay? Not sure, but likely, as many day one FA signings are an overpay. 

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On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 11:25 AM, BillsFan17 said:

Lol, okay I'll look at those plays that reflect how his numbers have declined in the run game. Literally showed you proof that his numbers declined and you tell me to sleep well on what exactly? 

you cant base stats on 5 games in 2 years. that's just dumb.. and if you can sleep well doing so well.. good riddance

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

you cant base stats on 5 games in 2 years. that's just dumb.. and if you can sleep well doing so well.. good riddance

Those stats werent over five games they were over the duration of his career. Do you know how to read charts and graphs?

 

And moreover, what is with the consistent concern for my sleeping patterns? Maybe take a different approach.

Edited by BillsFan17

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11 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

Those stats werent over five games they were over the duration of his career. Do you know how to read charts and graphs?

 

And moreover, what is with the consistent concern for my sleeping patterns? Maybe take a different approach.

lmao you make me laugh

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12 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

lmao you make me laugh

Laugh away, you still have not shown any evidence to prove your points. I gave you a graph proving my side of the argument. Until you bring a reasonable retort, stand down/move on.

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WE OVERPAID FOR STAR. Not the end of the world, it's a front loaded contract and we want to spend up to the CAP anyway. Not a bad contract. But he's overpaid because he's not worth what he's paying. Does it matter? I hope it doesn't hamstring us in the future, but it doesn't sound like his contract is set up that way.

 

$18M a season or so for a guy who played  50% of snaps in the Panthers rotation. He's good. Not that good. With the structure of the contract we both come away winners. Star is being overpaid, happy for him, Bills are spending their CAP, getting talent in for which we have desperate need,  and being mindful of future CAP ramifications (AFAIK).

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The bills will have close to 60 million in cap next year and some people are still complaining. They can even make more space with cutting and restructuring contracts. 

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2 minutes ago, Captain Murica said:

The bills will have close to 60 million in cap next year and some people are still complaining. They can even make more space with cutting and restructuring contracts. 

 

ESPN are the masters of overpaying.

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5 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

WE OVERPAID FOR STAR. Not the end of the world, it's a front loaded contract and we want to spend up to the CAP anyway. Not a bad contract. But he's overpaid because he's not worth what he's paying. Does it matter? I hope it doesn't hamstring us in the future, but it doesn't sound like his contract is set up that way.

 

$18M a season or so for a guy who played  50% of snaps in the Panthers rotation. He's good. Not that good. With the structure of the contract we both come away winners. Star is being overpaid, happy for him, Bills are spending their CAP, getting talent in for which we have desperate need,  and being mindful of future CAP ramifications (AFAIK).

I bet 5 bucks Trumaine Edwards doesnt think he is overpaid

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On 7/11/2018 at 11:18 AM, BuffaloHokie13 said:

ESPN also says our offensive skill players suck.

 

This reminds me of a saying about blind squirrels.....

 

 

 

.

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Just now, Augie said:

 

This reminds me of a saying about blind squirrels.....

 

 

 

.

 

...just waiting for Behar and Goldberg to be the new "Sportscenter" hosts.....ESPN is on the upswing...........

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33 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

ESPN are the masters of overpaying.

 

They seem to have run the ship aground like a drunken cruise captain and now are more of a giver than taker in the talent market. All their talk shows feel the same. I enjoyed Mike & MIke, and they managed to mess that up too. 

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...just waiting for Behar and Goldberg to be the new "Sportscenter" hosts.....ESPN is on the upswing...........

 

Honestly, I really don’t know because I watch so little ESPN these days. My kids used to watch back to back to back Sporstcenters. Now, I don’t even stop on the channel unless it’s a specific game I’m looking for. 

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2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

They seem to have run the ship aground like a drunken cruise captain and now are more of a giver than taker in the talent market. All their talk shows feel the same. I enjoyed Mike & MIke, and they managed to mess that up too. 

 

Honestly, I really don’t know because I watch so little ESPN these days. My kids used to watch back to back to back Sporstcenters. Now, I don’t even stop on the channel unless it’s a specific game I’m looking for. 

 

........it has become the "Kohler" of sports airwaves......talk about from the penthouse to the outhouse.......NEVER even bother anymore.........

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22 minutes ago, Augie said:

They seem to have run the ship aground like a drunken cruise captain and now are more of a giver than taker in the talent market. All their talk shows feel the same. I enjoyed Mike & MIke, and they managed to mess that up too.

 

I had a patient who had worked there from the beginning but had retired a couple years ago.  He said that mismanagement and handing-out ridiculous contracts are what is tanking the channel.  He also had some not-so-flattering things to say about Erin Andrews.

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I appreciate their concern.

 

Oh. wait. Scratch that.  I actually don’t, at all.

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4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I bet 5 bucks Trumaine Edwards doesnt think he is overpaid

Trumaine doesn't care haha. He'd rather have Star than a chunk of free cap.

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Posted (edited)

Unless he starts playing a lot better than he has been, they are right. Now we are stuck with a backup DT that we must play and pay as a starter for several years. This was a really bad move. No matter. Our offense will be so horrible that no one will notice and Lotulelei will just go back to being invisible.

On July 11, 2018 at 11:18 AM, BuffaloHokie13 said:

ESPN also says our offensive skill players suck.

They're right about that too. Whichever QB wins the starting job will take a pounding. The OL is a disaster. None of our QB's are proven. McCoy and Ivory are on the wrong side of 30. Our receiving corps is weak overall. A recent nfl.com article has our O ranked as the single "thinnest position group" in the league.

Edited by GreggTX

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1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

Unless he starts playing a lot better than he has been, they are right. Now we are stuck with a backup DT that we must play and pay as a starter for several years. This was a really bad move. No matter. Our offense will be so horrible that no one will notice and Lotulelei will just go back to being invisible.

They're right about that too. Whichever QB wins the starting job will take a pounding. The OL is a disaster. None of our QB's are proven. McCoy and Ivory are on the wrong side of 30. Our receiving corps is weak overall. A recent nfl.com article has our O ranked as the single "thinnest position group" in the league.

 

Yes and last year the Bills were assured of getting the 1st overall pick. Talk is cheap. I’ll wait to see the results. 

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Anyone still think we didn't overpay for Star?

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