DrDawkinstein Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: And he still technically took the wrong guy! Ehh, cant really say he took the wrong guy. Wentz was just luckier to land in a rookie's coaching dream and got a 1-year head start. I'd be happy to have that "wrong guy" right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 52 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: They are starting on other teams and getting paid. Terrific that is doing the Bills wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, BillsFan17 said: Terrific that is doing the Bills wonders. Blame the Pegulas for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 59 minutes ago, NewEra said: You don’t get it obviously. Change of schemes and purge of contracts so the new regime can build “their” team. It’s not as if the players Whaley drafted are not playing in the nfl.....just not on the Bills. Kouandjio? Richardson? Miller? Karlos Williams? Steward? Washington? Cardale? All not scheme fits or just a lot of misses beyond his first picks? Was sammy not a scheme fir either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: I always find it funny that people assume that there wasn’t a plan before. They were just spitting in the wind. That’s just ridiculous. You may not have liked the plan but obviously there was a strategy in place. Which strategy was that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 hours ago, ddaryl said: The Pegulas forcing/swapping HC's on Whaley was a miss fire. 3-4 D 4-3 swap out personel needed for different coaching styles really messed us up I have to put as much blame on the Pegula's as Whaley. so yes it is nice to see some continuity up top, and hopefully the Pegula's learned some lessons. Rex was a horrible hire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: Kouandjio? Richardson? Miller? Karlos Williams? Steward? Washington? Cardale? All not scheme fits or just a lot of misses beyond his first picks? Was sammy not a scheme fir either? Every GM has misses. I’m not saying Whaley was a great drafter, but he was better than most give him credit for. Sucks that he was pigeon holed into having to draft a QB in 13. He really had no choice and while Ej sucked, so did everyone else. Sammy wasn’t a culture or cap fit especially with his durability concerns. He’s a very good player. Are you saying Sammy is bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Hebert19 said: After a few years of Whaley...i gotta admit it finally feels like we have a plan. The maneuvering of the salary cap and dead cap. The accumulation of draft picks and now even the pre draft visits seem structured. We have a plan (likely to trade up) but if that doesn't work we have the back up plan (roquan Smith, Rudolph, first round WRs etc)...if we don't find a partner for trade up or price is too high we flip the switch and go a different direction. So refreshing. No offense, but is it just now becoming apparent that OBD has a master plan? They have been going down a nice linear path for quite a while now, going back to at least as early as the decision to move Watkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: No offense, but is it just now becoming apparent that OBD has a master plan? They have been going down a nice linear path for quite a while now, going back to at least as early as the decision to move Watkins. The roots of that, along with trading back in last year's draft, all happened while Whaley was still here. I'm not trying to defend Doug as much as I am trying to point out it isnt like Beane came in with some unheard of plan on his own. Everyone saw Darnold and Rosen coming down the pipe for 2018 as far back as 2016. Heck, I saw that, I dont know squat. But to your point, all the more reason to go for broke on acquiring the #2 overall pick. Otherwise, what was the point of walking this path, just to stop short of completion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRush Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Hebert19 said: After a few years of Whaley...i gotta admit it finally feels like we have a plan. The maneuvering of the salary cap and dead cap. The accumulation of draft picks and now even the pre draft visits seem structured. We have a plan (likely to trade up) but if that doesn't work we have the back up plan (roquan Smith, Rudolph, first round WRs etc)...if we don't find a partner for trade up or price is too high we flip the switch and go a different direction. So refreshing. Cue the Whaley apologists. Someone once told me "Doug had a strategy, it was win-now and that's the best plan to win in the NFL" . LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: In some aspects, unfortunately, yes it's a failure. It may not be all their fault, but the plan that was started last April will have failed. And someone has to be accountable for that. We started down this path a long time ago. Many moves have been made to ship talent out and acquire assets to move around in this draft. If we can't get a top tier QB, the plan failed. Just like it was on Whaley for never finding us a QB, even though we were never in a position to get one. We never should have made the playoffs last year , we were NOT supposed to win 9 games we were a 3-5 win team , So yes Bean deserves all the blame for not being in the position to draft in the top 5 !!! So now he better do what ever it takes to get that trade done ( OR ELSE ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRush Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: The roots of that, along with trading back in last year's draft, all happened while Whaley was still here. I'm not trying to defend Doug as much as I am trying to point out it isnt like Beane came in with some unheard of plan on his own. Everyone saw Darnold and Rosen coming down the pipe for 2018 as far back as 2016. Heck, I saw that, I dont know squat. But to your point, all the more reason to go for broke on acquiring the #2 overall pick. Otherwise, what was the point of walking this path, just to stop short of completion? Beane is friends with McDermott and McDermott made the actual draft picks. Maybe it was Beane's plan all along! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 22 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: No offense, but is it just now becoming apparent that OBD has a master plan? They have been going down a nice linear path for quite a while now, going back to at least as early as the decision to move Watkins. Of course not...did I say that? Merely saying it is refreshing. As many have stated so did Whaley...but then he would get sucked into the next shiny toy on free agent market and deviate. These guys are not sitting there saying we are going to trade up no matter what but also developing contingency plans. That was not evident by just trading sammy...unless you were a mind reader. 2 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said: Cue the Whaley apologists. Someone once told me "Doug had a strategy, it was win-now and that's the best plan to win in the NFL" . LOL I'm sure he did...but it wasn't to build a winner from ground up otherwise we wouldn't have always chased the shiny object. So ya. His plan was not well thought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said: Beane is friends with McDermott and McDermott made the actual draft picks. Maybe it was Beane's plan all along! So in your next GM analysis thread, who is the GM for the 2017 draft? FACT: Doug Whaley was the acting GM during the 2017 NFL Draft. Anything else is strictly rumor and innuendo. Prove me otherwise with actual primary source documents See what I did there? Edited April 9, 2018 by DrDawkinstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Again, you are proving my point. They did have a plan (one that you didn’t like). They thought that they were close, so they paid and invested draft picks in elite young talents. It didn’t work but that doesn’t mean that it was not thought through. I didn't say they didn't have a plan, what I'm saying is that it just wasn't a well-thought out one built around the concept of building a team as opposed to collecting talent. I laid out my argument, you believe or at least imply that it was thought out well and because he missed out on EJ and because of ownerships decision to go with Rex, he ended up failing. I often see how some people blame Pegula for the hiring of Rex and not allowing Whaley to have full control of the GM reigns. I'll tell you why, because Whaley wasn't able to convince Pegula that he deserved to have that opportunity. That is part of the job, being able to effectively communicate your vision and a plan to be able to execute it. Yes, Pegula was enamored with Rex and he was wrong to believe that but I can tell you that by the time Rex had been hired, Whaley already had one foot out the door as far as Pegula was concerned simply because he didn't fully believe in him and that he was going to punt that decision to the next regime. And to be honest with you, I'm glad it worked out the way it did because if he had trusted Whaley to take the reigns, I don't believe we would have had someone in charge to chart the course towards sustained success. Also, the dead cap money that was created by the players Whaley chose were released/traded/what have you because they no longer were performing no where near the contact that they signed, plus some of those players didn't buy in to the concept that they were trying to build and instill on a team they were just inheriting. You may not like that concept or you may disagree with their philosophy and the concept of "removing potential cancers" but that is their process and part of their core belief. This is their team, they sold Pegula on a vision and I'm sure that Pegula alsocame away very impressed with their detailed approach to Football. Pegula even said as much. I can't find the article but it was right after Beane was hired there was an extensive article of an interview with Beane and how he approached things. After reading and listening to his interview I knew that we had a totally different kind of GM than with what we had with Whaley and that his approach would from my perspective be much more durable. The only question mark for me was would he be able to surround himself with a good scouts and would they be able to select the players needed to make this work? That is still a question mark but in regards to their thought process and philosphy, I'm all in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Whaley had a plan too. It might not have been the right one, but there is no way he would have kept that job that long if he was just wondering around aimlessly. No that occurred after the draft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I know it was a type-o but I think the internet makes for some pretty hilarious new phrases...such as..."Wondering around aimlessly"! I'm going to have to use that one! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I know it was a type-o but I think the internet makes for some pretty hilarious new phrases...such as..."Wondering around aimlessly"! I'm going to have to use that one! Allthpugh its a type o, I kind of like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Joe Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Jauronimo said: . I'm seriously considering starting a cult. Not in Oregon please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Uncle Joe said: Not in Oregon please Its a free love cult..... Those Rajneeshis got nothing on what I'm envisioning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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