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502Buffs

Making the case for Lamar Jackson

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

Saw this article as well. Agree that would be a red flag, but none of these QB's are day one ready IMO. Didn't want to harp on the racial issue because I knew that would turn a lot of people off, but the evidence is staggering. Was interesting to hear Chris Long's take being a white defensive end.

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

There are big flaws to his game. And alot of time the areas that he does have flaws in are not correctable. 

 

So that is why i say he doesnt have limitless potential

Edited by MAJBobby

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There are some things to like in his highlights.


But I don't how you can't be concerned about his poor play outside the SEC and his lack of x-and-o expertise at the combine.  

 

His arm strength, on the other hand, looks better on film than it did on the radar gun.

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12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Has there ever been a problem with this to even think that it should be a problem?

 

The player that some want to give the farm for has MULTIPLE CONCUSSIONS

 

Are QBs in NFL protected via Rules differently than College players. 

 

Are college players treated differently while injured than NFL players?

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2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

There are big flaws to his game. And alot of time the areas that he does have flaws in are not correctable 

What are the "big flaws" that are not correctable

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Are QBs in NFL protected via Rules differently than College players. 

 

Are college players treated differently while injured than NFL players?

What does this have to do with anything really?

 

Does he have the concussions or not?

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Just now, John from Riverside said:

What are the "big flaws" that are not correctable

 

Processing time

Base on Mechanics 

Arm power 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Processing time

Base on Mechanics 

Arm power 

Looks like he goes through his reads (as a matter of fact there is video showing that)

Mechanically he needs work on his feet...Im not arguing it there...that is why he needs to sit a year

You can just watch him play and see that he has a arm......just flicks his wrist and the ball is there......there is absolutely nothing to see there.   Deshawn Watson does not appear to have a problem with this.

 

By the way....lost in this arguement is he probably runs the MOST pro style offense of any of these qbs......RIGHT NOW

Edited by John from Riverside
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59 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

2001 Michael Vick: 6'0 210lbs

2018 Lamar Jackson: 6'3 200lbs

 

2001 running qb took the league by storm/surprise...dynamic

 

2018 defenses have learned how to snuff that stuff out.

 

end of discussion.  see also 3yrs. of tyrod taylor.   lamar jackson = pass

we just signed a two time national champ with nfl playoff experience. why would we corner ourselves into having to have two entirely different offensive schemes. no thanks

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Just now, billsredneck1 said:

2001 running qb took the league by storm/surprise...dynamic

 

2018 defenses have learned how to snuff that stuff out.

 

end of discussion.  see also 3yrs. of tyrod taylor.   lamar jackson = pass

we just signed a two time national champ with nfl playoff experience. why would we corner ourselves into having to have two entirely different offensive schemes. no thanks

You think that today's defenses have caught up to a young michael vick player?

 

LOL

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Looks like he goes through his reads (as a matter of fact there is video showing that)

Mechanically he needs work on his feet...Im not arguing it there...that is why he needs to sit a year

You can just watch him play and see that he has a arm......just flicks his wrist and the ball is there......there is absolutely nothing to see there.   Deshawn Watson does not appear to have a problem with this.

Yes he does not talking that he cant go thru progressions. Said Processing time. Meaning they are slow reads. 

 

Feet though is a HUGE issue. QBs with base problems very rarely fix it. 

 

Watson doesnt have a problem because of accurate ball placement. His lack of arm power will be evident in NFL because his accuracy is spotty. Although arm power isnt a big no no for me because it can be covered (see Brady). But it is an issue that rarely is fixed. Though some power will come from fixing the base 

Edited by MAJBobby

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Just now, MAJBobby said:

Yes he does not talking that he cant go thru progressions. Said Processing time. Meaning they are slow reads. 

 

Feet though is a HUGE issue. QBs with base problems very rarely fix it. 

 

Watson doesnt have a problem because of accurate ball placement. His lack of arm power will be evident in NFL because his accuracy is spotty 

We are talking about a player that got better every year of college.

 

I really think that your hate for Tyrod is clouding your judgement on this player.   I think Rosen is the better QB.......but if we cannot trade up to get him lamar Jacson is far from a boobie prize here.....

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21 minutes ago, Virgil said:

3 inches taller but 10 pounds lighter is very small. 

 

For as much as he runs, he could break easily 

 

Actually he's 6'2"1/4 and weighs 216. He prolly wont get any taller but he will get bigger and stronger.

His technical/mechanical issues are a little overblown imo. If he's the guy he will be ready by mid-season.

Mind you dont expect him ever to turn into Drew Brees. His ball placement/accuracy will probably never be that good. 

But there is every reason to think that he can develop into a competent passer who will be capable of making plays, including big plays, with his arm. 

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11 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

There are big flaws to his game. And alot of time the areas that he does have flaws in are not correctable. 

 

So that is why i say he doesnt have limitless potential

what are his uncorrectable flaws?

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1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

You think that today's defenses have caught up to a young michael vick player?

 

LOL

they sure caught up to a 7 year vet in tyrod taylor. ....and when you have opposing defenses say"we made him play qb" and he gets 56 yds in an entire game, yeah ....sign me up for some more of that.....

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4 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

2001 running qb took the league by storm/surprise...dynamic

 

2018 defenses have learned how to snuff that stuff out.

 

end of discussion.  see also 3yrs. of tyrod taylor.   lamar jackson = pass

we just signed a two time national champ with nfl playoff experience. why would we corner ourselves into having to have two entirely different offensive schemes. no thanks

that stuff? A good qb with 4.3 speed? I don't think that's been seen before either, but who's to say we would need two spereate schemes? Let Lamar learn under AJ. I'm fine with that.

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Just now, billsredneck1 said:

they sure caught up to a 7 year vet in tyrod taylor. ....and when you have opposing defenses say"we made him play qb" and he gets 56 yds in an entire game, yeah ....sign me up for some more of that.....

Just like I thought

 

Tyrod Taylor

Tyrod Taylor

Tyrod Taylor on the mind

 

It doesnt matter that these two players play the game differently.....it simply does not matter

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1 minute ago, billsredneck1 said:

they sure caught up to a 7 year vet in tyrod taylor. ....and when you have opposing defenses say"we made him play qb" and he gets 56 yds in an entire game, yeah ....sign me up for some more of that.....

he is much faster than tyrod with a stronger arm...accuracy may be close to the same but he's also 21.

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14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

How is he similar to Tyrod

 

Besides the obvious mobility, his ability to read the field is limited, he holds onto the ball too long, and he is not that accurate. Also, he is an explosive, physically gifted athlete.

 

This is all from watching film breakdown from various "experts". I don't actually watch college ball.

 

I don't feel strongly about this. When it comes down to it, we are all guessing on these players. If we pick him I hope he succeeds.

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There is just something about the Qb position that lends itself to lazy comparisons.

 

Yeah - he runs a little more than the other guys.  That doesn’t make him exactly like Taylor.  

 

I’d be fine if he was our 1st pick.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Besides the obvious mobility, his ability to read the field is limited, he holds onto the ball too long, and he is not that accurate. Also, he is an explosive, physically gifted athlete.

 

This is all from watching film breakdown from various "experts". I don't actually watch college ball.

 

I don't feel strongly about this. When it comes down to it, we are all guessing on these players. If we pick him I hope he succeeds.

Addressing the holding the ball too long.

 

Since he is not running around all over the field except for mostly designed stuff....the question then becomes is he taking sacks from holding the ball too long?   I honestly have not seen that yet in my study of him.....

 

In reading the field.....I see long throws....i see throws over the middle......I see crossing routes.....where exactly is his "limited ability to read the field"  he is nearly 3 inches taller then our last starting QB so hight really is not an issue.

Edited by John from Riverside
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1 hour ago, 502Buffs said:

Feel free to criticize anything I'm about to type here, but I implore you to read the entire post first because I simply don't understand why more Bills fans refuse to jump on the Lamar Jackson train.

 

He threw for more one more touchdown than Rosen and Darnold in a much tougher conference on a less talented team. (this is coming from a Louisville fan so please, call me biased, I'll be the first to admit it) He ran for 50 touchdowns in his career. He threw for 27 touchdowns and 10 interceptions in his last year while rushing for 18 touchdowns. This is following a year in which he won the Heisman trophy and every coach is keying in on stopping him more than any other single player. He had the same amount of interceptions as Rosen last year, yet Rosen is consistently crowned by "experts" as the most polished, accurate, NFL ready QB in the draft, while Jackson is considered the most innacurate QB in the draft...WHAT??

 

Experts praise Allen for his arm strength and how much zip he can put on the ball, he's also praised for his big frame. Meanwhile Jackson is only 2 inches shorter than Allen...oh and here's a video of Lamar throwing a football 95 yards in high school: 

 

If that video is too low quality for you I understand. Here's a video of Jackson nearly breaking dude's fingers in 2014:

 

 

The receivers' reactions say it all.

 

Lamar Jackson had the highest receiver drop rate in the country last year. Why is this? Because he has an absolute ROCKET of an arm. One of the main criticisms of Jackson is his poor completion percentage. Here are the completion stats for each of the top QB prospects last year per sports-reference.com.

Darnold: 64.9%

Mayfield: 70.5%

Rosen: 62.6%

Allen: 56.2%

Jackson: 57% With the highest receiver drop rate in the country

 

He's consistently had a laxkluster offensive line during his tenure while going up against some of the best defensive lines in the country in the ACC. His running back was a quarterback converted to receiver (with the emergence of Jackson) converted again to running back in Jackson's final year. With this being said Jackson's statistics are absolutely unprecedented. Michael Vick has gone on record several times saying Jackson is better than he was at that age, which for whatever reason seems to mean nothing to anybody.

 

2001 Michael Vick: 6'0 210lbs

2018 Lamar Jackson: 6'3 200lbs

 

Experts also question his football IQ...take away your bias if who he is as a man, if you don't think Bobby Petrino runs one of the more complicated offensive systems in football then I have to question whether you actually watch both college and professional football or if you just allow yourself to be spoon-fed whatever NFL Network and ESPN tells you. During Jackson's freshman year when he came in and dominated Bobby Petrino went on record as saying Jackson didn't even know the majority of the plays yet when he got his first start. The next year he had one of the best statistical season in history and won the Heisman trophy over Deshaun Watson who probably would have won it almost any other year with his 2016-17 stats and is currently looking like the best QB from last years draft.

 

Football IQ can be taught, talent cannot.

 

I'm not going to sully this post by trying to make the case for Jackson being the victim of some systemic racial QB bias, but the case these so-called experts make for the rest of the quarterbacks in this draft being a better prospect than Jackson just do not make any sense to me. The only quarterback I think who may be a better prospect than Jackson is Mayfield. There are holes all over this roster despite our lucking into the playoffs last year on a miracle throw/upset. Trading up into the top 5 to take a Rosen or Allen would be a huge mistake IMO when we can draft Jackson at either 12 or 22 and use our other 5 picks in the top 3 rounds to take franchise players who will KEEP us in the playoffs.

 

Thanks for reading. Feel free to make a counter argument, but I'm going to finish this post with his highlights from last year and I just want you to imagine a backfield with Lamar Jackson and Shady McCoy and tell me that wouldn't be a fun time to be a Bills fan.

 

Well done, I to think he is worth the 12th pick.  I still think AJ and Peterman can fight it out this year while we sprinkle in Lamar.  After that let it sort itself out.

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3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Addressing the holding the ball too long.

 

Since he is running around all over the field except for mostly designed stuff....the question then becomes is he taking sacks from holding the ball too long?   I honestly have not seen that yet in my study of him.....

 

In reading the field.....I see long throws....i see throws over the middle......I see crossing routes.....where exactly is his "limited ability to read the field"  he is nearly 3 inches taller then our last starting QB so hight really is not an issue.

 

Like I said, I don't watch college ball. My opinion is entirely based on various breakdowns I've watched from various sources.

 

If you don't see it, that's fine. There are some who have seen it and have shown examples in their breakdowns of him. When I am off of work I'll go look for examples.

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1 minute ago, MJS said:

 

Like I said, I don't watch college ball. My opinion is entirely based on various breakdowns I've watched from various sources.

 

If you don't see it, that's fine. There are some who have seen it and have shown examples in their breakdowns of him. When I am off of work I'll go look for examples.

Its fine....I appreciate the honesty in your evaluation.

 

Lamar is not my first choice in this draft.  I just refuse to come OUT of this draft without a QB of the future.

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There are two franchise QBs available in the first round of this draft and that's Darnold and Jackson.

 

Rosen is another injury waiting to happen "Bradford", Allen screams big arm bust and Mayfield has impulse control issues (not unlike ODB) and is someone who's way too tightly wound to ever last as a long term franchise QB in the NFL.

 

Lamar Jackson will be the steal of this draft. The NFL media has really done a very poor and frankly disrespectful job of painting him as just another "athletic, running" QB. But that will ultimately be to the Bills benefit, since they'll probably be in the vicinity to draft him, which is unlikely the case with Darnold.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

lamar will end up in miami or az....just my gut feeling. not sure if it's at 11 or 15, but if we stay put, my money is on rudolph at 12.

 

that's if there's a feeding frenzy on qbs right off the bat.. i myself would like a traditional pocket passer that can climb the ladder or have enough mobility to slide yet keep his eyes downfield. my 1st choice is mayfield if he slides, but no way i give up a ton of picks to move up. a.j. will be just fine. with nate and mason developing behind him, we could have one of the best stable of qbs in the league.

 

i'm praying baker slides to us or we only have to move a couple of spots. we have the picks this year to add tons of talent to this team and i hope we keep and use every single pick we have. rudolph 12, vita vea 22. malik jackson and washington or chark with the 2's.

 

god i can't wait til the draft!!!!

Edited by billsredneck1

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2 hours ago, 502Buffs said:

Feel free to criticize anything I'm about to type here, but I implore you to read the entire post first because I simply don't understand why more Bills fans refuse to jump on the Lamar Jackson train.

 

He threw for more one more touchdown than Rosen and Darnold in a much tougher conference on a less talented team. (this is coming from a Louisville fan so please, call me biased, I'll be the first to admit it) He ran for 50 touchdowns in his career. He threw for 27 touchdowns and 10 interceptions in his last year while rushing for 18 touchdowns. This is following a year in which he won the Heisman trophy and every coach is keying in on stopping him more than any other single player. He had the same amount of interceptions as Rosen last year, yet Rosen is consistently crowned by "experts" as the most polished, accurate, NFL ready QB in the draft, while Jackson is considered the most innacurate QB in the draft...WHAT??

 

Experts praise Allen for his arm strength and how much zip he can put on the ball, he's also praised for his big frame. Meanwhile Jackson is only 2 inches shorter than Allen...oh and here's a video of Lamar throwing a football 95 yards in high school: 

 

If that video is too low quality for you I understand. Here's a video of Jackson nearly breaking dude's fingers in 2014:

 

 

The receivers' reactions say it all.

 

Lamar Jackson had the highest receiver drop rate in the country last year. Why is this? Because he has an absolute ROCKET of an arm. One of the main criticisms of Jackson is his poor completion percentage. Here are the completion stats for each of the top QB prospects last year per sports-reference.com.

Darnold: 64.9%

Mayfield: 70.5%

Rosen: 62.6%

Allen: 56.2%

Jackson: 57% With the highest receiver drop rate in the country

 

He's consistently had a laxkluster offensive line during his tenure while going up against some of the best defensive lines in the country in the ACC. His running back was a quarterback converted to receiver (with the emergence of Jackson) converted again to running back in Jackson's final year. With this being said Jackson's statistics are absolutely unprecedented. Michael Vick has gone on record several times saying Jackson is better than he was at that age, which for whatever reason seems to mean nothing to anybody.

 

2001 Michael Vick: 6'0 210lbs

2018 Lamar Jackson: 6'3 200lbs

 

Experts also question his football IQ...take away your bias if who he is as a man, if you don't think Bobby Petrino runs one of the more complicated offensive systems in football then I have to question whether you actually watch both college and professional football or if you just allow yourself to be spoon-fed whatever NFL Network and ESPN tells you. During Jackson's freshman year when he came in and dominated Bobby Petrino went on record as saying Jackson didn't even know the majority of the plays yet when he got his first start. The next year he had one of the best statistical season in history and won the Heisman trophy over Deshaun Watson who probably would have won it almost any other year with his 2016-17 stats and is currently looking like the best QB from last years draft.

 

Football IQ can be taught, talent cannot.

 

I'm not going to sully this post by trying to make the case for Jackson being the victim of some systemic racial QB bias, but the case these so-called experts make for the rest of the quarterbacks in this draft being a better prospect than Jackson just do not make any sense to me. The only quarterback I think who may be a better prospect than Jackson is Mayfield. There are holes all over this roster despite our lucking into the playoffs last year on a miracle throw/upset. Trading up into the top 5 to take a Rosen or Allen would be a huge mistake IMO when we can draft Jackson at either 12 or 22 and use our other 5 picks in the top 3 rounds to take franchise players who will KEEP us in the playoffs.

 

Thanks for reading. Feel free to make a counter argument, but I'm going to finish this post with his highlights from last year and I just want you to imagine a backfield with Lamar Jackson and Shady McCoy and tell me that wouldn't be a fun time to be a Bills fan.

 

 

 

I genuinely don't know.

 

But is there a highlight tape of him not running? It was mostly running. I would like to see a tape of him just executing an NFL style drive. Short and medium passes driving the team down the field please. That would give me a way better idea.

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