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Making the case for Lamar Jackson


502Buffs

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Saquon Barkley's stats for the last three years as a RB:


671 attempts, 3843 yards, 5.7 YPC, 43 TD

 

Lamar Jackson's stats as a runner for the last three years: 

 

655 attempts, 4132 yards, 6.3 YPC, 50 TD

 

Now add his passing numbers. 

 

The kid is special. 

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3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I like Jackson, but I respectfully disagree.  I would not be upset if we took him without a trade-up, but I would prefer if we could somehow trade up and get Rosen, Mayfield, or Darnold, pretty much in that order.

 

You really can't, sorry. 

 

I understand about watching Jackson on film.  The runs are so astonishing that it's hard to watch the things you need to watch to evaluate a passer.  Skycap (I think) turned me on to a video that was just Jackson's TD throws, which was the first time I was able to notice that he was really a pretty good passer. 


This evaluation by Cover1 is pretty good: https://www.cover1.net/scouting-report-qb-lamar-jackson-louisville/

 

I don't believe he's one of the top 3 QB in the draft, but he's a far better passer than he gets credit for with many.  He threw for 3500 yds and 30 TD last year and 3600 yds/27 TD this year, TD/INT about 3:1.  Those are actually very similar passing stats to Josh Rosen.

 

He does have some nice TD throws. I don’t think he is a horrible passer, he is just not a first or second day passer. If he was he would probably be the first pick in the draft because he is an electric runner.

 

This is a good listen on why Jackson is not at the level of the other QBs as a passer.

https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/draft-ep-3-ranking-the-qb-class/id913714358?i=1000401894731&mt=2

 

Those cover 1 throws were fantastic, no doubt about it. You can see everything you would want in a franchise QB. The problem is when you watch the full games those throws are few and far between. He is very erratic when throwing intermediate throws.

Edited by billspro
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51 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

Saquon Barkley's stats for the last three years as a RB:


671 attempts, 3843 yards, 5.7 YPC, 43 TD

 

Lamar Jackson's stats as a runner for the last three years: 

 

655 attempts, 4132 yards, 6.3 YPC, 50 TD

 

Now add his passing numbers. 

 

The kid is special. 

 

He is the best running QB I have ever seen. He might be a better runner than Vick.

1 hour ago, Spiderweb said:

I can't  simply because i watched him the last two years in Louisville, the area where I live. Great athlete, simply not the accurate stong armed passer needed. I say.  Get off this bandwagon......Now............

 

Finally someone who has actually watched his games.

1 hour ago, the skycap said:

Hapless, I respect your opinion but I do believe Jackson is in the top 3. The stats you reference above were produced with less than NFL players. Meaning none of his teammates were able to crack a NFL roster. That's why I'd rank him over Darnold. Darnold had some pretty good talent around him. He also protects the ball better than Darnold. Honestly, the only one I'd rank above him is this year's Heisman trophy winner. 

 

He plays a Louisville it’s not like it is Toledo. 

Edited by billspro
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It has been reported that the Bills have met with Jackson 1 time at the combine. These are usually quick interview sessions and I can’t imagine this regime drafting Jackson in the first round without an in depth interview and whiteboard session. The same and goes for Allen whom the Bills were reported to have met one time at the Senior Bowl. 

 

The Bills have had pre draft visits or private workouts with Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield and Rudolph. The above 4 qbs are your most likely candidates for a first round qb. 

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22 hours ago, billspro said:

 

I tried numerous times to tell people Watson didn’t have accuracy issues. In fact my passing comparison for him was Drew Brees. Watson was the most underrated QB prospect in years. Jackson on the other hand does have accuracy issues. He has more over throws on tape then any other QB in the top ten prospects. The concerns about his accuracy are very legitimate. His running ability may be able to overcome his deficiencies as a passer. The other problem with Jackson is he beat up on lesser talented defences but did not have a good game against any of his top opponents this year. Watson always showed up in the big games. This comparison needs to end, they are very different players.

I wasn't comparing Jackson and Watson per se, just that people passed on Watson because of accuracy issues that I felt were overblown.

 

As for Jackson, I like him, thought he improved as a passer this past year and have him as my #4 behind Darnold, Baker and Rosen. I see no reason to move up if the player who is left is Allen, and question the cost to move up to get one of the top 3 I like, but wouldn't be PO'd if it happened. The thought of grabbing Smith at #12 and Jackson at #22 is more appealing to me than moving up because I think Jackson could be another Vick, that is the comparison I have been making.

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https://mobile.twitter.com/PFF_College/status/983125093525151744/photo/1

 

Fun fact: Lamar Jackson had THE HIGHEST Adjusted Conversion Rate on 3rd and 5+ among Draft-eligible QBs in 2017. Lamar Jackson: 52.2% (!) Mason Rudolph: 48.8% Baker Mayfield: 45.8% Josh Rosen: 40.0% Sam Darnold: 37.2% Josh Allen: 35.9%
Edited by the skycap
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I think that the polar opposites on this have been pretty well identified.

 

Some cant get past Tyrod Taylor and are fearful of a QB that is actually a athlete too

 

The fact is......guys like Rosen are more accurate and should be the first choice

 

The fact is....at the present moment we are not in a position to draft Rosen

 

The fact is....LJ is very talented.....as mechanical issues that can be corrected.....has a ton of physical upside....and would be a excellent plan B if we wanted to sit and take a qb at 12 and keep our picks for things like WR, LB, OL

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Just now, John from Riverside said:

I think that the polar opposites on this have been pretty well identified.

 

Some cant get past Tyrod Taylor and are fearful of a QB that is actually a athlete too

 

The fact is......guys like Rosen are more accurate and should be the first choice

 

The fact is....at the present moment we are not in a position to draft Rosen

 

The fact is....LJ is very talented.....as mechanical issues that can be corrected.....has a ton of physical upside....and would be a excellent plan B if we wanted to sit and take a qb at 12 and keep our picks for things like WR, LB, OL

 

You left out the most important fact.

 

This kid is dumber than dirt.

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Just now, John from Riverside said:

I dont care if he cant spell his own name

 

The kid is good at football

 

If he was a CB, John, I'd be with you.

 

But he is (kind of) a QB.  Bona fide morons don't make good NFL QBs.

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15 hours ago, the skycap said:

Hapless, I respect your opinion but I do believe Jackson is in the top 3. The stats you reference above were produced with less than NFL players. Meaning none of his teammates were able to crack a NFL roster. That's why I'd rank him over Darnold. Darnold had some pretty good talent around him. He also protects the ball better than Darnold. Honestly, the only one I'd rank above him is this year's Heisman trophy winner. 

 

It's all good!  My rational has to do with technique.  Ever since Fitz and EJM, I'm all up on QB who are accurate already when we get our hands on them. 

Jackson is erratic in his throwing sometimes.  He's less erratic than people think because he does sometimes put the ball off from the WR but where the DB has no shot, but there's no getting away from it, sometimes he's inaccurate.  I think I can see why - I got to where I could watch Jackson throw, stop the video, and predict whether or not the throw would be accurate.

 

He's improved significantly all 3 years in college, and I think he can keep improving.  But I got to give Darnold the edge on where he is in technique, so I go Rosen-Mayfield-Darnold  (then I think there's a step down) Jackson-Allen  (another step) Rudolph.

 

And frankly, I hate to say this but I don't think we're the right place for him.  I'd like to see him go someplace where 1) he can sit if he needs to 2) the coaches are willing and able to develop him, and to tailor the playbook to his strengths.

 

But that's just me and I'm 100% in on different POV, as long as they're backed up with some kind of actual facts relevant to football (that would include anything Rosen has actually said, but not interpretations of what Rosen actually said or extrapolations based on interpretations of what Rosen actually said)

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14 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

If he was a CB, John, I'd be with you.

 

But he is (kind of) a QB.  Bona fide morons don't make good NFL QBs.

Because he scored poorly on a 15 minute standardized test? With that logic let's make it a requirement that you have to post your SAT/ACT score with every reply. Doesn't matter that he ran the most complicated offense of all QB prospects (the same Erhardt/Perkins offense Daboll plans to run), ran the read option to perfection and has never had a disciplinary problem.

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1 minute ago, 502Buffs said:

Because he scored poorly on a 15 minute standardized test? With that logic let's make it a requirement that you have to post your SAT/ACT score with every reply. Doesn't matter that he ran the most complicated offense of all QB prospects (the same Erhardt/Perkins offense Daboll plans to run), ran the read option to perfection and has never had a disciplinary problem.

 

I agree 100%.  It absolutely does not matter.

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2 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

Your personal attacks on Lamar are really embarrassing and insulting to this board.

 

 

Calling a stupid person stupid is a personal attack?  Color me guilty, then.

Just now, 502Buffs said:

Way to back up your point with examples. Lets bring in another Harvard QB! Isn't there a guy from Princeton in the draft?

 

That's brilliant.   Let me guess ... you're the guy who, after a terrorist runs over a bunch of people with a car, says - "Well, I guess we should outlaw cars now!"  uh hut, uh hut.

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6 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

Because he scored poorly on a 15 minute standardized test? With that logic let's make it a requirement that you have to post your SAT/ACT score with every reply. Doesn't matter that he ran the most complicated offense of all QB prospects (the same Erhardt/Perkins offense Daboll plans to run), ran the read option to perfection and has never had a disciplinary problem.

Greg Gabriel "Louisville does not have a very complex offense" 

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2018/02/22/greg-gabriel-the-evaluation-of-lamar-jackson-as-a-qb-prospect-is-ongoing/ac0uv9s/

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5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Calling a stupid person stupid is a personal attack?  Color me guilty, then.

 

That's brilliant.   Let me guess ... you're the guy who, after a terrorist runs over a bunch of people with a car, says - "Well, I guess we should outlaw cars now!"  uh hut, uh hut.

Your argument this entire time has been if a quarterback scores poorly on the wonderlic, or has a southern slang in interviews, he can't play quarterback. The hypocrisy is mind numbing.

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