JaCrispy Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: How many times do we have to go over this? YES! Finally we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said: Keep the picks. I don't think any of these QB's are worth trading a crazy amount for. I'd take any of Chubb, Nelson, Barkley, Smith, Edwards, Ward, Fitzpatrick, James, or one of the top 4 QB's at 12. At 22, I'd take Ridley, Evans, one of the DT's, or Lamar Jackson. And we still have 3 more picks in the top 65. This could be a draft that nets you 4-5 top line starters. I'm not giving the majority of that away for a QB that is nowhere close to a sure thing. Probably not starting in 2018 either and to get him your giving up next years 1st. 53 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: With the picks we have, you aren't sniffing a sure thing's jock strap... Out of 5-6 top 100 players and with Beane you will have 2-3 starters and another 2-3 good backups that play in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 No way would I give up such a good draft for a guy like Rosen. I think he will get physically crushed in the pros. Slight looking frame, takes a lot of hits, 2 concussions last year alone, shoulder surgery, grew up on SoCal beaches, questionable commitment and unimpressive passing efficiency in college. He has as much of a chance of busting as any of the top 6 qbs. So much hype for a guy who has done very little beyond good mechanics and footwork, I will be surprised if he becomes a great pro. Of course if the Bills pick him I will hope I am wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 45 minutes ago, thunderingsquid said: How did so many of my brothers and sisters get cold feet when it comes to franchise quarterbacks? That's what franchises are built on. Is Brees a franchise QB, Brady, Wilson? These guys were all picked 2-6 round. Favre was a 2 round pick, Rodgers 17th, Kelly 14th. Brad Johnson, Dilfer, Foles, Flacco all won SB's. Bledsoe, Luck, Ryan and a number other 1st pick over all have not, Allot more #2 picks have flopped. A franchise QB is defined by winning over a long period of time, nothing about draft status. More QB's have failed in the 1st round then any other position selected. Failure is out of the league before rookie contract done or expired. Allot more have failed then succeed. 44 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Count me in as for Rosen as well This guy has had concussions, 1 hit and he may never play again in a year, another hit out of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said: Hmmm, did Kelly win a Superbowl, I do remember Brees doing it, Wilson, Brady, Big Ben a 11th pick, Rodgers at 17, Foles 3rd rounder, come on help me out. Oh by the way Kelly was a 14th pick with 3 QB's selected ahead of him, even Tony Hunter a TE the Bills drafted. Eli one of few that do it but he is no prize, not worth giving up all your picks. Not even seeing a Luck in this draft. I would take a Nick Foles and a Super Bowl win. I love Jim and that team, what we know, but they lost. Isn't winning the Superbowl what it is about. Or is it about the journey? Maybe the journey is earning the 1st pick, needing to suck for a few years and earning to draft a franchise QB. Bills fans want so bad they are willing to FORCE the plan forward. You do not win trading up to draft 1 player over 4-5 team players. NFL windows to win championships are small. Were Jim Kelly and Dan Marino not good enough QB’s or “not worth it”? Of course not. That notion, even implied, is ludicrous. The NFL is a team sport, so an anomolies such as Dan Marino and Kelly and other great QBs who never win super bowls happen bc by the very nature of the game critical elements are out of their direct control. Fact is 4-5 team players can be obtained via FA. Always. Theyre there every off-season. Franchise QB’s that are the face of your franchise for a decade or more, never are. You have to draft one. Edited March 24, 2018 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 For Josh Rosen I would because I think he has a chance to be a very good NFL QB and I don't particularly like Mason Rudolph. And we all know without a superior QB you live in no man's land in the NFL universe. Now if Rosen is gone at #2 or #3.....I would not trade up for Josh Allen, who I think is going to be an absolute tire fire in the NFL. To me, the most important attribute to be a successful QB in the NFL is deadly accuracy. Allen's accuracy is horrendous. Like really, really bad. I've seen the excuse.....well he played for Montana, the talent around him was weak.....you know what else was weak the inferior defenses he faced most Saturdays. It was bad in college and it'll be just as bad in the NFL, where the windows are even tighter. And remember the thing that Tyrod was really bad at? Throwing with anticipation or what they now call throwing a WR open. Guess who has the same problem? Josh Allen. EJ Manuel was the same way....he couldnt anticipate a throw for his life. You either have those traits as a QB or you don't. I think Rosen does. His concussion scare me, truth be told, but I like him. Allen will flop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 34 minutes ago, What a Tuel said: Let's just pin this down. You think to get to #2 the Bills need to give up: A top 10 pick, 2 additional 1st round picks, a 2nd, and 3rd this year. To get the top 10 pick you suggest it will take trading with the Colts and giving up: 12, 22, and a 2nd and 3rd. So in total you think to move up to #2 it will take giving two teams: 5 1st round picks 2 2nd round picks 2 3rd round picks I mean you just aren't in the same reality. Philly going from #8 to #2 in 2016 throws all of that in the trash. You don't go to 2nd pick over all with 12, PERIOD! Your acting like you have a top 10 pick, you don't. You also don't count well. We never gave up 5 1st rounders, we give up 4. Your giving up 12, 22, 1st 2019 and 1st 2020, then 2 2nds and 2 3rds. Think of it as a 3 way trade. Those are the assets we lose for Rosen. You all think 12, 22 2nd and 3rd get it done fro Rosen. If you don't want those players at those draft positions and want Rosen more, than why on earth would the Giants want those players over Rosen, Brakley or Chubb? 1 hour ago, What a Tuel said: If Whaley would have found a successful QB, we would have easily broken the drought. They had their shots, they picked wrong 43 minutes ago, Pbomb said: How well have the eagles done? They didnt even trade up for luck, they had the first pick. The problem is that luck has been hurt and the team they put around him. Are you saying they shouldnt have drafted him and traded down or something Eagles just won the Superbowl, what are you trying to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPbillsfan Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, Estro said: For Josh Rosen I would because I think he has a chance to be a very good NFL QB and I don't particularly like Mason Rudolph. And we all know without a superior QB you live in no man's land in the NFL universe. Now if Rosen is gone at #2 or #3.....I would not trade up for Josh Allen, who I think is going to be an absolute tire fire in the NFL. To me, the most important attribute to be a successful QB in the NFL is deadly accuracy. Allen's accuracy is horrendous. Like really, really bad. I've seen the excuse.....well he played for Montana, the talent around him was weak.....you know what else was weak the inferior defenses he faced most Saturdays. It was bad in college and it'll be just as bad in the NFL, where the windows are even tighter. And remember the thing that Tyrod was really bad at? Throwing with anticipation or what they now call throwing a WR open. Guess who has the same problem? Josh Allen. EJ Manuel was the same way....he couldnt anticipate a throw for his life. You either have those traits as a QB or you don't. I think Rosen does. His concussion scare me, truth be told, but I like him. Allen will flop. My god your take is idiotic. What is it about Rosen that you find so amazing? His arm is not that great, he takes a ton of hits, is injury and concussion prone and has the wrong mentality in my opinion for a QB. Plus is a California kid and come from a family that's very well to do. BTW - Josh Allen played at Wyoming you buffoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 31 minutes ago, What a Tuel said: The problem with this argument is that you leave out all of the 11th, 17th, 3rd rounders, 6th rounders that weren't successful. DXkLTuxVQAET7y2.jpg.html And your leaving out all the failures in the 1st round you want to call "franchise QB's". Remember Mirer, Leaf, Russell, Couch, Lienhart, Quinn. They were complete flops. That is why you don't waste 4-6 picks for 1 player, if your wrong you have destroyed your team for 3-4 years. Those that do that as GM's and HC's are gone 3-4 years in. Just ask Cleveland, they are trying again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, USABuffaloFan said: Well please tell me what it is you are saying? I guess I’m saying I don’t like either of the options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbomb Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said: You don't go to 2nd pick over all with 12, PERIOD! Your acting like you have a top 10 pick, you don't. You also don't count well. We never gave up 5 1st rounders, we give up 4. Your giving up 12, 22, 1st 2019 and 1st 2020, then 2 2nds and 2 3rds. Think of it as a 3 way trade. Those are the assets we lose for Rosen. You all think 12, 22 2nd and 3rd get it done fro Rosen. If you don't want those players at those draft positions and want Rosen more, than why on earth would the Giants want those players over Rosen, Brakley or Chubb? They had their shots, they picked wrong Eagles just won the Superbowl, what are you trying to say? You are arguing against trading up, the eagles just traded up for wentz and won the superbowl, think its pretty clear. If you think it would take 4 firsts , 2 2nds and 2 3rds to get up to #2 you are crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, bobobonators said: NFL windows to win championships are small. Were Jim Kelly and Dan Marino not good enough QB’s or “not worth it”? Of course not. That notion, even implied, is ludicrous. The NFL is a team sport, so an anomolies such as Dan Marino and Kelly and other great QBs who never win super bowls happen bc by the very nature of the game critical elements are out of their direct control. Fact is 4-5 team players can be obtained via FA. Always. Theyre there every off-season. Franchise QB’s that are the face of your franchise for a decade or more, never are. You have to draft one. All I am saying is even with a 1st round QB you may not win a Superbowl. Jim had a great offense, never had a great defense. Strange all that talent never had a top 5 defense with Kelly. Why, Walt Corey. You are exactly right TEAM is the word, that means great Coaches, position coaches too. Bills always lacked a good defensive coordinator under Levy and Kelly. Frank Reich played just as well as Kelly when Kelly went out. Team means drafting too, not just a QB. Without Reed, McKeller, Thomas, Fina, Jones, Talley, Conlan, etc.. we would not have won. Buffalo only once went for a player and gave too much up in those years. May have cost us a Superbowl win going for Bennett. We lost 3-4 1st picks getting him in 88'. How good would we have been keeping those picks and drafting by the time we reached the Super Bowls. Maybe we would have won. One player is just not worth it. Edited March 24, 2018 by USABuffaloFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 3 hours ago, The Bills Blog said: I wouldn't, and I hope Brandon Beane agrees. And this is even a bare minimum of what it would cost to get to #2. Using the chart, #12 (Vander Esch), #22 (Moore), #53 (Rudolph), and #65 (Penny) get you to #2, but because of the Jets trade, you'll probably have to give up significantly more than that. Is Rosen (or your other preferred QB other than Darnold) better than Rudolph to the extent that you're willing to just not have Vander Esch, Moore, Penny, and some other high-impact player? I am firmly in the camp of keeping our picks at this point. The Bills are in position to build a dominant roster. Let McCarron, Rudolph, and Peterman compete. FYI: the available players came from the Fanspeak draft simulator using Matt Miller's board and the difficult algorithm. The Rams don't have a single player remaining from the haul they received from the Redskins in 2012. Nothing is guranteed. But if u have conviction on a QB u take that risk. 51 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said: No, without those players Kelly wouldn't have went to any Superbowls. The last one happened because of Reich in one of the most famous Bills games ever. I love kelly but this was a stupid comparison. Frank Reich had no problem winning with the same players. No Hofers for a Hofer , give me the Hofer Kelly I'll get positional players latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 We've only been trying to win with another team's backup for a decade now, let's give it another 10 years to be sure it doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Rosen was 6-6 as a starter this season. He can't carry a team. Not to mention his health issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Yes. Next Question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp83 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 7 hours ago, The Bills Blog said: I wouldn't, and I hope Brandon Beane agrees. And this is even a bare minimum of what it would cost to get to #2. Using the chart, #12 (Vander Esch), #22 (Moore), #53 (Rudolph), and #65 (Penny) get you to #2, but because of the Jets trade, you'll probably have to give up significantly more than that. Is Rosen (or your other preferred QB other than Darnold) better than Rudolph to the extent that you're willing to just not have Vander Esch, Moore, Penny, and some other high-impact player? I am firmly in the camp of keeping our picks at this point. The Bills are in position to build a dominant roster. Let McCarron, Rudolph, and Peterman compete. FYI: the available players came from the Fanspeak draft simulator using Matt Miller's board and the difficult algorithm. I kinda like where your going with this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 7 hours ago, The Bills Blog said: Respectfully, I think ya'll have lost your ever-loving minds! Time will be the judge on Josh Rosen. Obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp83 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 7 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: In a FN heartbeat. How do you know if Rosen will be that good? Now don't get me wrong... I like Rosen too but his Ceiling is Matt Ryan... It's not bad, but Rudolph with the right coach, in the right system...could be Phillip Rivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelingOnYouboty Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Pleasantly surprised at how smart the responses are on the first page. Well done boys. I think Bills fans are finally waking up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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