The Frankish Reich Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) Yeah, the offseason ain't over yet, and maybe there will be a big surprise, but ... objectively, if you had to rank all NFL teams from best-to-worst at the QB position as of right now, the Bills would be dead last. Take a look: http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/QB O.K., you could argue that we're in the same boat as the Chiefs. Mahomes went 10th last year, hasn't really played, and we have the 12th pick in a stronger QB draft, so maybe you'd have a point even though Mahomes has that nice work in the preseason going for him. Or I guess you could say the Cardinals with Sam Bradford's knees held together with popsicle sticks is worse, but then again, Bradford has had a fair amount of success in his career in spite of that chronic problem. Or you could say that Mitch Trubisky still hasn't shown anything, but he was the 2nd overall pick, wasn't he? Somehow the Niners (Jimmy Superstar), Jets (McCown is old, but has had a lot more success in the NFL than McCarron; Bridgewater is the new Bradford, but he too has a better resume, certainly better than Nervous Nathan, AND here comes Josh), the Browns (yep, as things stand today Tyrod is much more of a proven middling QB than McCarron, and here comes Sam), the Jags (same with the New Formula Bortles), even the Broncos (old wisdom: "at least they don't have to play Case Keenum"; new wisdom: "you could do a lot worse than Case Keenum as your starter") have somehow managed to leapfrog the Bills. I'm still not quite sure how this happened - it all looked promising during the Kirk Cousins Derby and the trade-up frenzy - and yes, it could all be o.k. if we get one of the Big 4, but right now, it's not looking pretty. "Upgrading" at QB right now looks like trading proven mediocrity for the unproven and uninspiring (the 28 year old 5th rounder with 4 career starts) and the 5th or 6th or 7th best QB in the draft (maybe Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph). Edited March 23, 2018 by The Frankish Reich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 McCarron was the best of ALL the available QB prospects and we got him for very little. You want to go with "proven", well then of course he will not be on your good list. But why bother to make a whole post built around the fact that the man hasn't played many games? We all know that already. And then you go on to assume we will get borked in the draft, which of course, you can't possibly know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 Just now, BadLandsMeanie said: McCarron was the best of ALL the available QB prospects and we got him for very little. You want to go with "proven", well then of course he will not be on your good list. But why bother to make a whole post built around the fact that the man hasn't played many games? We all know that already. And then you go on to assume we will get borked in the draft, which of course, you can't possibly know. No. My point is what it says. Right now, we are headed into the season with the worst QB situation in the league, even assuming we draft a QB at 12. As for McCarron being the best of all available QB prospects: (1) define "prospect." (2) if he was the best, why didn't he garner more interest/a higher salary? I like signing him for a very affordable price, but I only like it if a one of the true blue chip draft picks comes along with him, and right now, that's not looking so good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY315 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Off-season ain't over yet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: McCarron was the best of ALL the available QB prospects and we got him for very little. You want to go with "proven", well then of course he will not be on your good list. But why bother to make a whole post built around the fact that the man hasn't played many games? We all know that already. And then you go on to assume we will get borked in the draft, which of course, you can't possibly know. You seem to be splitting hairs... You're calling him a prospect, and separating him from the "proven" guys. I'm not even sure what you mean by the best of all available QB prospects. All the guys in the draft are available QB prospects. He's not even remotely close to the best of all available QB prospects, that's why he went for so cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: No. My point is what it says. Right now, we are headed into the season with the worst QB situation in the league, even assuming we draft a QB at 12. As for McCarron being the best of all available QB prospects: (1) define "prospect." (2) if he was the best, why didn't he garner more interest/a higher salary? I like signing him for a very affordable price, but I only like it if a one of the true blue chip draft picks comes along with him, and right now, that's not looking so good. I can give a number of possible reasons why he didn't get a higher price. One is as you mentioned, he hasn't proven himself in games. Everybody else you can at least expect that they will be halfway decent. He's more of a gamble. McCarron said he would play a season for the league minimum if he could start. So he likely turned down offers from places with less of an open roster spot than we have. He came from the Bengals. So, not Bill Belichick's chosen backup, but a much less glamorous place and role. Last but I wonder if it isn't first, I think he would seem crazy to lots of coaches and GM's. Maybe to anyone but McBean. He has a Giant tattoo of Jesus on his chest. Then big crosses, A rosary (catholic prayer bead thing). In the world today that can seem crazy to people especially when looking for a "face of your franchise" when the biggest face is that tattoo of Jesus that he has. 10 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: You seem to be splitting hairs... You're calling him a prospect, and separating him from the "proven" guys. I'm not even sure what you mean by the best of all available QB prospects. All the guys in the draft are available QB prospects. He's not even remotely close to the best of all available QB prospects, that's why he went for so cheap. You are splitting hairs. I think it was clear that I meant free agent guys. But also yeah a team that is locked in to get a top draft pick QB this year wasn't going to sign him for anything more than a year contract. Why do that when you can get a Tyrod or McCown? But as I say, I meant free agent prospects. Edited March 23, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: You are splitting hairs. I think it was clear that I meant free agent guys. But also yeah a team that is locked in to get a top draft pick QB this year wasn't going to sign him for anything more than a year contract. Why do that when you can get a Tyrod or McCown? But as I say, I meant free agent prospects. It was labeling him as a prospect that threw me off... my bad. I don't mind him as a FA signing, I just hope they can do something of note in the draft. When you call him a prospect I don't include FA guys, I think we just view that differently. That's all. Edited March 23, 2018 by Ol Dirty B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, BadLandsMeanie said: I can give a number of possible reasons why he didn't get a higher price. One is as you mentioned, he hasn't proven himself in games. Everybody else you can at least expect that they will be halfway decent. He's more of a gamble. McCarron said he would play a season for the league minimum if he could start. So he likely turned down offered from places with less of an open roster spot than wee have. He came from the Bengals. So, not Bill Belichick's chosen backup, but a much less glamorous place and role. Last but I wonder if it isn't first, I think he would seem crazy to lots of coaches and GM's. Maybe to anyone but McBean. He has a Giant tattoo of Jesus on his chest. Then big crosses, A rosary (catholic prayer bead thing). In the world today that can seem crazy to people especially when looking for a "face of your franchise" when the biggest face is that tattoo of Jesus that he has. That's kind of interesting, the Christian thing. I didn't know that. Then again, Philip Rivers never suffered financially for his serious catholicism, and Case Keenum led off his post-signing presser with a lot of praise for Jesus, so I doubt NFL execs have any problems with religious QBs. I do think McCarron has a decent chance - call it 20%, maybe more? - of being a perfectly decent starter. But I stand by my point that right now, the Bills are somehow in as bad a QB bind as ever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Just now, Ol Dirty B said: It was labeling him as a prospect that threw me off... my bad. I don't mind him as a FA signing, I just hope they can do something of note in the draft. When you call him a prospect I include FA guys, I think we just view that differently. That's all. Ok. I hope we can do something in the draft also. But I am not as worried as I would be if we didn't have McCarron. Part of that is analytical and part of that is some stuff happened that made me superstitious that he will be good. Which I don't believe because it is superstition, but I do anyway. 2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: That's kind of interesting, the Christian thing. I didn't know that. Then again, Philip Rivers never suffered financially for his serious catholicism, and Case Keenum led off his post-signing presser with a lot of praise for Jesus, so I doubt NFL execs have any problems with religious QBs. I do think McCarron has a decent chance - call it 20%, maybe more? - of being a perfectly decent starter. But I stand by my point that right now, the Bills are somehow in as bad a QB bind as ever. google McCarron Tattoo and get a load of it. Worth a minute 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, BadLandsMeanie said: Ok. I hope we can do something in the draft also. But I am not as worried as I would be if we didn't have McCarron. Part of that is analytical and part of that is some stuff happened that made me superstitious that he will be good. Which I don't believe because it is superstition, but I do anyway. That was supposed to say I don't include him... I'm editing it now lol. To me though, McCarron seems like a downgrade from Tyrod, I hope I'm wrong, but neither are where I want this team to be at QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: That was supposed to say I don't include him... I'm editing it now lol. To me though, McCarron seems like a downgrade from Tyrod, I hope I'm wrong, but neither are where I want this team to be at QB. Time will tell but I don't see him as a downgrade from Tyrod. I think at worst both us and the Browns will be happy at least for a while. The Browns because they will win some games with Tyrod and all they do is lose until now. And us because McCarron will be throwing the ball a lot. All the short stuff in the crossing routes and so forth that Tyrod isn't the best at. So we too will do ok and we will be hopeful that as he gets more experience he will improve on his faults whatever they turn out to be. So we get to have some hope. And he could turn out to be better than that, or so I think. Edited March 23, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) Its irrelevant because we will be adding someone via the draft. Games don't get played in March. Edited March 23, 2018 by matter2003 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: Time will tell but I don't see him as a downgrade from Tyrod. I think at worst both us and the Browns will be happy at least for a while. The Browns because they will win some games with Tyrod and all they do is lose until now. And us because McCarron will be throwing the ball a lot. All the short stuff in the crossing routes and so forth that Tyrod isn't the best at. So we too will do ok and we will be hopeful that as he gets more experience he will improve on his faults whatever they turn out to be. So we get to have some hope. And he could turn out to be better than that, or so I think. I hope you're right. I never really followed him closely, I was actually going to A&M at the time he and manziel were the guys. So I definitely wasn't a fan of him in college. I have an admitted bias. Not in the sense of I just don't like him, I just thought he was carried by the rest of the team. But here's to me being wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 53 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: No. My point is what it says. Right now, we are headed into the season with the worst QB situation in the league, even assuming we draft a QB at 12. As for McCarron being the best of all available QB prospects: (1) define "prospect." (2) if he was the best, why didn't he garner more interest/a higher salary? I like signing him for a very affordable price, but I only like it if a one of the true blue chip draft picks comes along with him, and right now, that's not looking so good. Worst as in the most unknown. I'd rather go with our situation than some of these other teams who have known QB's with extreme limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikuman Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Sometimes the 5th or 6th or 7th best QB in the draft isn't all that bad. I know the odds are against it, but these "good guys" all met the criteria. That's just shy of 1/3 of the starting QBs last year? Brady - 7th TT - 11th Dalton - 5th Cousins - 8th Wilson - 6th Foles - 7th Keenum - Undrafted Garoppolo - 5th Prescott - 8th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 3 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: No. My point is what it says. Right now, we are headed into the season with the worst QB situation in the league, even assuming we draft a QB at 12. As for McCarron being the best of all available QB prospects: (1) define "prospect." (2) if he was the best, why didn't he garner more interest/a higher salary? I like signing him for a very affordable price, but I only like it if a one of the true blue chip draft picks comes along with him, and right now, that's not looking so good. Would you rather have Tyrod than McCarron? That’s the only difference from last year. Plus we have a ton of picks coming up in a very good QB draft. Dooomed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, matter2003 said: Its irrelevant because we will be adding someone via the draft. Games don't get played in March. Teams have stars, and those who belong on the field, and scrubs Each time you lose one who belongs you have to find a new one just to get back to where you used to be its been a slough of despond with QBs for a long time, not sure how fans think you clap your hands and an elite QB shows up on command Edited March 23, 2018 by row_33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 3 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: That's kind of interesting, the Christian thing. I didn't know that. Then again, Philip Rivers never suffered financially for his serious catholicism, and Case Keenum led off his post-signing presser with a lot of praise for Jesus, so I doubt NFL execs have any problems with religious QBs. I do think McCarron has a decent chance - call it 20%, maybe more? - of being a perfectly decent starter. But I stand by my point that right now, the Bills are somehow in as bad a QB bind as ever. It's a point not lost on this board, for anyone that's been paying attention. Some of the teams you mentioned had already leapfrogged the Bills at QB before they traded Tyrod Taylor. The team was never going to be in the Cousins derby ( he wasn't going to decide to play in BUF), who knows what they felt Keenum was worth. He may not have been interested either. Peter king reported that the Bills had a $ value assigned to every FA, and weren't going to exceed it. The draft is still a month away, and it wouldn't be surprising if their draft slot in round 1 changes again. It was never high enough ( and still isn't ) to land a top QB in round one. But we do know this; if one thing is clear, the Bills have gotten out of the business of proven mediocrity at the QB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said: McCarron was the best of ALL the available QB prospects and we got him for very little. You want to go with "proven", well then of course he will not be on your good list. But why bother to make a whole post built around the fact that the man hasn't played many games? We all know that already. And then you go on to assume we will get borked in the draft, which of course, you can't possibly know. Maybe McCarron was the best left over after the four or five best went. Cousins, Bridgewater, Keenum, Bradford all looked better, IMHO. After they were gone, yeah one of the best. I've been predicting McCown would be here for months, and now it looks like for once I might have been right, that they really wanted him until the Jets re-signed him. Agreed, maybe McCarron's not as bad as he might be. We don't really know. Could be a great pickup but I think it's fair to say he's a major question mark. Exactly right that this ranking misses the main point, which is that we're going to be trying to answer the long-term questions here in the draft. Yeah, the OP is missing the point. We're trying to upgrade in the draft. McCarron is a bridge guy who with maybe a lot of luck turns out to be more than that. We're fine. This team's goals are long-term. Edited March 23, 2018 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 3 years ago our quarterback situation was - EJ Manuel (bust), Matt Cassell (journeyman at best) and Tyrod Taylor (a 4 year back up to Joe Flacco, who only did mop up duty in NFL). I say our situation is currently better to that with Peterman (2nd year man who had a really rough outing), McCarron (a 4 year back up to Andy Dalton, who has 4 games under his belt) and an undrafted rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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