DCOrange Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 43 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I maintain that I believe that the competition for the No. 1 overall pick is between Darnold and Allen. Yep. I think Cleveland, Jets, and Buffalo all have those two in their top 2 honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Looper said: So did Dan Marino - means nothing. Favre was worse. Completion percentages have gone up markedly since the days of Marino and even Favre. It means a lot, actually. Can you name a QB within the past decade who had a sub-60% completion percentage in college and was a successful NFL QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, DCOrange said: Yep. I think Cleveland, Jets, and Buffalo all have those two in their top 2 honestly. Doesn't seem far-fetched to me as Beane says he and the scouts have prototypes for each position including QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBean Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 hour ago, zevo said: It is amazing to me how everybody is so sure Allen is going to suck...granted I don’t want to trade up for him....but I have no clue regarding who will bust or be a stud He sucked in college and he’ll suck in the NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventeen Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Doc said: Completion percentages have gone up markedly since the days of Marino and even Favre. It means a lot, actually. Can you name a QB within the past decade who had a sub-60% completion percentage in college and was a successful NFL QB? Why have completion % gone up ? Shorter pass routes ? Sure Matt Ryan was 59.3 his senior year and just below 60 in total. Russell Wilson was way below 60 at NC State and above 70 @ Wisconsin. Did Wilson all of a sudden learn how to be more accurate or did he have better receivers and an offense more suited to his style ? How about Matthew Stafford ? E.J. was about 66% at FSU - how did that work out ? You have to look at a lot more that just the % number. If teams used your 60% number, no one would be looking at Lamar Jackson either. Edited March 18, 2018 by Looper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEBills Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 26 minutes ago, Doc said: Completion percentages have gone up markedly since the days of Marino and even Favre. It means a lot, actually. Can you name a QB within the past decade who had a sub-60% completion percentage in college and was a successful NFL QB? Can you name me a good QB who is shorter than 6’1’’ and doesn’t run a 4.5? Can you name me a good QB from USC in the last 15 years? see, those types of arguments can be made many, many ways. And I love all the top 5 QBs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Just now, Looper said: Why have completion % gone up ? Shorter pass routes ? Sure Matt Ryan was 59.3 his senior year and just below 60 in total. Russell Wilson was way below 60 at NC State and above 70 @ Wisconsin. Did Wilson all of a sudden learn how to be more accurate or did he have better receivers and an offense more suited to his style ? How about Matthew Stafford ? E.J. was about 66% at FSU - how did that work out ? You have to look at a lot more that just the % number. Not sure why the completion percentages have gone up, except for relaxing the passing rules. But they have gone up. And sure you'll have outliers here and there. But taking Allen that high and hoping (praying) he'll buck the trend is a recipe for disaster. Just now, LEBills said: Can you name me a good QB who is shorter than 6’1’’ and doesn’t run a 4.5? Can you name me a good QB from USC in the last 15 years? see, those types of arguments can be made many, many ways. And I love all the top 5 QBs. I can name one of each. One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Looper said: Why have completion % gone up ? Shorter pass routes ? Sure Matt Ryan was 59.3 his senior year and just below 60 in total. Russell Wilson was way below 60 at NC State and above 70 @ Wisconsin. Did Wilson all of a sudden learn how to be more accurate or did he have better receivers and an offense more suited to his style ? How about Matthew Stafford ? E.J. was about 66% at FSU - how did that work out ? You have to look at a lot more that just the % number. Only thing I will add to that is WGR brought on a guy who covered Allen and his defense was similar to yours. In that Completion % on it's own is dangerous. You do not know (unless you watch the tape) just what type of passes QBs are attempting. He seemed to make the argument that Allen was attempting less than favorable "pad your Completion %" types of throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 40 minutes ago, Looper said: So did Dan Marino - means nothing. Favre was worse. Those were very different times... Apples to Oranges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEBills Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Doc said: I can name one of each. One. If you can, you are either thinking of terrible players or players drafted a good time ago (Brees) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventeen Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Doc said: Not sure why the completion percentages have gone up, except for relaxing the passing rules. But they have gone up. And sure you'll have outliers here and there. But taking Allen that high and hoping (praying) he'll buck the trend is a recipe for disaster. I can name one of each. One. I don't know about that ... give him a couple years, put him in a pro offense with NFL athletes and we'll see. Someone will take him near the top. For every guy that had a completion % below 60, there is someone who was above 60 in college and failed in the pros. Lots of other factors involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said: Only thing I will add to that is WGR brought on a guy who covered Allen and his defense was similar to yours. In that Completion % on it's own is dangerous. You do not know (unless you watch the tape) just what type of passes QBs are attempting. He seemed to make the argument that Allen was attempting less than favorable "pad your Completion %" types of throws. 2 minutes ago, LEBills said: If you can, you are either thinking of terrible players or players drafted a good time ago (Brees) 2 minutes ago, Looper said: I don't know about that ... give him a couple years, put him in a pro offense with NFL athletes and we'll see. Someone will take him near the top. For every guy that had a completion % below 60, there is someone who was above 60 in college and failed in the pros. Lots of other factors involved. I'm not saying that a QB with a good completion percentage will be successful in the pros. I'm saying that one with a poor one in college has a low chance of success in the NFL. And for the Bills to trade a ton to move up to get Allen, they can't rely on hope that they'll be able to improve his accuracy and they don't have years to wait for it to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEBills Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said: Only thing I will add to that is WGR brought on a guy who covered Allen and his defense was similar to yours. In that Completion % on it's own is dangerous. You do not know (unless you watch the tape) just what type of passes QBs are attempting. He seemed to make the argument that Allen was attempting less than favorable "pad your Completion %" types of throws. Thats because he was trying difficult throws. Not every time, but way more often than Oklahoma or Oklahoma State. every so often he would spray an EJ type of throw, but not all the time. Coach Bohl has been great at finding late bloomer QBs and giving them a chance but pretty bad at developing them. both Wentz and Allen spent their time in college with raw footwork, and Wentz finally saw good improvement at his footwork and accuracy this year with a year of good NFL coaching. Allen will need to continue showing improved footwork, and he did at the combine. If he can become consistent, you are going to see an amazing jump in his accuracy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventeen Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, LEBills said: Thats because he was trying difficult throws. Not every time, but way more often than Oklahoma or Oklahoma State. every so often he would spray an EJ type of throw, but not all the time. Coach Bohl has been great at finding late bloomer QBs and giving them a chance but pretty bad at developing them. both Wentz and Allen spent their time in college with raw footwork, and Wentz finally saw good improvement at his footwork and accuracy this year with a year of good NFL coaching. Allen will need to continue showing improved footwork, and he did at the combine. If he can become consistent, you are going to see an amazing jump in his accuracy. Truth ... and the main thing for me is I want a guy that wants to play here, embraces the city and it's blue collar attitude, and is a gamer. If Rosen doesn't want to play here, why the h*ll would we bother ? I personally think Allen will be gone by the 5th and the Giants will pick Rosen. JMO ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Looper said: So did Dan Marino - means nothing. Favre was worse. That was 30 years ago man. Come on. 24 minutes ago, Looper said: I don't know about that ... give him a couple years, put him in a pro offense with NFL athletes and we'll see. Someone will take him near the top. For every guy that had a completion % below 60, there is someone who was above 60 in college and failed in the pros. Lots of other factors involved. No there isn't. This logic is so convoluted. You have a lot more busts who had 60% completion because guys in the 50's aren't really even looked at as top prospects most of the time. For every guy who is 60 and above who didn't make it, their are way more in the 50s. Most of them probably didn't even get a chance to play consistently. I mean can I include all the QBs that were never even given a chance in the NFL who threw in 50% range? It disqualifies guys now days. Unless you're an athletic freak, in terms of being 6'5 and able to throw the ball with velocity a mile. Your discounting success because that success earns a chance to fail at the next level. Then arguing on behalf of lesser performance. It's insane. Edited March 18, 2018 by Ol Dirty B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 So many knocking Allen, yet no one questioning Darnold being annoited the #1 pick. Go watch a full games highlights of each. Darnold is the one who should be scrutinized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytate Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 7 hours ago, Looper said: I want a Jim Kelly/John Elway/Roethlisberger mold franchise QB - tough, doesn't mind playing in sh*t weather, and a gamer. I don't discount Allen as I think he's the closest to Kelly/Elway/Roethlisberger with a few more years of development. Blue collar town - I want a blue collar QB. Please name me 1 non blue collar qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 9 hours ago, JerseyBills said: I hate draft time. 99% of ppl will be wrong and after the draft, never spoken of again. So many armchair GM's banging the table for the QB they like when in reality 1-2 of the total qbs taken (Rds 1-7) might be very good, and the rest will be anywhere from backups to Fringe starters, to out of the league.. Thank God we have a competent GM that isn't going to throw away precious draft capital to move up ,when he could stay put and have the same chances at finding a very good QB . Why, I thinks it's pretty exciting trying to guess and anticipate what the Bills will do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 ....solid support from the Jesters fans........LMAO............. Yoshihisa Kuwabara Jets fan since 1991. I'm no longer a fan as of today. I'm glad it's this stupid of a trade, for it's easier for me to move on. 3 second rounders to move up 3 spots...lol Like · Reply · 84 · 19h Matt Washburn · Senior Actuarial Analyst at Jackson National Life Insurance Truly one of the worst organizations in sports. 2 division titles in the last 49 years. Wow! Like · Reply · 52 · 19h Yoshihisa Kuwabara Wow so there are actual Jets fans who thinks this trade is good? Trading 4 premium draft picks to move up 3 spots to not even guarantee getting the guy they want? Like · Reply · 28 · 19h Ehsan Vessal · Network Engineer at Qualcomm It's not like it hasn't been done before. Look at Chargers, they traded an extra No.1 and No.2 so they could move up one spot and select Ryan Leaf. Ram Shoham And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why the Jets are always terrible. Horrendous decision-making. Like · Reply · 213 · 20h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsSbSoon Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 7 hours ago, peterpan said: So many knocking Allen, yet no one questioning Darnold being annoited the #1 pick. Go watch a full games highlights of each. Darnold is the one who should be scrutinized. I know i have been questioning it for months. I dont see it with him and cant believe hes still regarded as the top qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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