pimp on da' net Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Klaista2k said: And how does that solve our problem of finding a franchise QB that we haven't had in forever? I will indulge you just for shacks & gaggles. If the only way to obtain a "franchise" QB were by drafting in the top 3 picks I would agree with you. Trade everything for that guy but this crop of prospects are more hype than substance, IMO. They can very easily be this draft: RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL TEAM 1 1 Tim Couch QB Kentucky Cleveland Browns 1 2 Donovan McNabb QB Syracuse Philadelphia Eagles 1 3 Akili Smith QB Oregon Cincinnati Bengals 1 11 Daunte Culpepper QB Central Florida Minnesota Vikings 1 12 Cade McNown QB UCLA Chicago Bears 2 50 Shaun King QB Tulane Tampa Bay Buccaneers 3 77 Brock Huard QB Washington Seattle Seahawks 4 101 Joe Germaine QB Ohio State St. Louis Rams 4 131 Aaron Brooks QB Virginia Green Bay Packers 5 151 Kevin Daft QB California-Davis Tennessee Titans 7 227 Michael Bishop QB Kansas State New England Patriots 7 239 Chris Greisen QB Northwest Missouri State Arizona Cardinals 7 245 Scott Covington QB Miami (Fla.) Cincinnati Bengals What do you consider a "franchise" QB? One who gets a team to the ultimate prize (Lombardi Trophy)? Or a QB who has great regular season numbers but the team is meh? Here some info for you...in the last decade of the QB drafted in the 1st rd, only 1 has won a SB (Flacco, drafted 18th overall '08). List of consensus "franchise" QB currently in the NFL ; T. Brady- 6th rd (multi SB winner) A. Rodgers - 1st rd, 24th overall ( SB winner & perennial passing leader) D. Brees- 2nd rd (see A. Rodgers) R. Wilson - 3rd rd Eli Manning- 1st overall ( 2 SB) B. Roethlisberger - 1st rd, 11th overall P. Rivers- 1st- 4th overall (no even sure if he has even had a playoff appearance) So to answer your qwery, the way to find a "franchise" QB, is to first build a solid team and develop one slowly ala Big Ben, Flacco, Brady, Aikman. This notion of the "franchise" QB is a misnomer, imo...it's more or less find a QB and tailor your system to his strengths. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hooks Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 If they take a good qb, yes. If they take Allen, no. They actually did us a favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, pimp on da' net said: I will indulge you just for shacks & gaggles. If the only way to obtain a "franchise" QB were by drafting in the top 3 picks I would agree with you. Trade everything for that guy but this crop of prospects are more hype than substance, IMO. They can very easily be this draft: RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL TEAM 1 1 Tim Couch QB Kentucky Cleveland Browns 1 2 Donovan McNabb QB Syracuse Philadelphia Eagles 1 3 Akili Smith QB Oregon Cincinnati Bengals 1 11 Daunte Culpepper QB Central Florida Minnesota Vikings 1 12 Cade McNown QB UCLA Chicago Bears 2 50 Shaun King QB Tulane Tampa Bay Buccaneers 3 77 Brock Huard QB Washington Seattle Seahawks 4 101 Joe Germaine QB Ohio State St. Louis Rams 4 131 Aaron Brooks QB Virginia Green Bay Packers 5 151 Kevin Daft QB California-Davis Tennessee Titans 7 227 Michael Bishop QB Kansas State New England Patriots 7 239 Chris Greisen QB Northwest Missouri State Arizona Cardinals 7 245 Scott Covington QB Miami (Fla.) Cincinnati Bengals What do you consider a "franchise" QB? One who gets a team to the ultimate prize (Lombardi Trophy)? Or a QB who has great regular season numbers but the team is meh? Here some info for you...in the last decade of the QB drafted in the 1st rd, only 1 has won a SB (Flacco, drafted 18th overall '08). List of consensus "franchise" QB currently in the NFL ; T. Brady- 6th rd (multi SB winner) A. Rodgers - 1st rd, 24th overall ( SB winner & perennial passing leader) D. Brees- 2nd rd (see A. Rodgers) R. Wilson - 3rd rd Eli Manning- 1st overall ( 2 SB) B. Roethlisberger - 1st rd, 11th overall P. Rivers- 1st- 4th overall (no even sure if he has even had a playoff appearance) So to answer your qwery, the way to find a "franchise" QB, is to first build a solid team and develop one slowly ala Big Ben, Flacco, Brady, Aikman. This notion of the "franchise" QB is a misnomer, imo...it's more or less find a QB and tailor your system to his strengths. Finally some ppl coming out of the woodwork to state these QB facts and stop this nonsense about trading away premium draft capital for one player who even if he has great numbers, probably fails because the team around him is not that good. We are in perfect position to build a great TEAM. Why ppl want to throw that away is beyond me. Add Stafford to your list. Has he ever won a playoff game? Without looking,he might have 1 playoff victory. More recently- Winston,Mariota, Carr , 1 combined playoff appearance, 0 wins. Great teams win nowadays. Foles Bortles Keenum had their teams a win away from a SB title , the NFL is changing folks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, pimp on da' net said: I will indulge you just for shacks & gaggles. If the only way to obtain a "franchise" QB were by drafting in the top 3 picks I would agree with you. Trade everything for that guy but this crop of prospects are more hype than substance, IMO. They can very easily be this draft: RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL TEAM 1 1 Tim Couch QB Kentucky Cleveland Browns 1 2 Donovan McNabb QB Syracuse Philadelphia Eagles 1 3 Akili Smith QB Oregon Cincinnati Bengals 1 11 Daunte Culpepper QB Central Florida Minnesota Vikings 1 12 Cade McNown QB UCLA Chicago Bears 2 50 Shaun King QB Tulane Tampa Bay Buccaneers 3 77 Brock Huard QB Washington Seattle Seahawks 4 101 Joe Germaine QB Ohio State St. Louis Rams 4 131 Aaron Brooks QB Virginia Green Bay Packers 5 151 Kevin Daft QB California-Davis Tennessee Titans 7 227 Michael Bishop QB Kansas State New England Patriots 7 239 Chris Greisen QB Northwest Missouri State Arizona Cardinals 7 245 Scott Covington QB Miami (Fla.) Cincinnati Bengals What do you consider a "franchise" QB? One who gets a team to the ultimate prize (Lombardi Trophy)? Or a QB who has great regular season numbers but the team is meh? Here some info for you...in the last decade of the QB drafted in the 1st rd, only 1 has won a SB (Flacco, drafted 18th overall '08). List of consensus "franchise" QB currently in the NFL ; T. Brady- 6th rd (multi SB winner) A. Rodgers - 1st rd, 24th overall ( SB winner & perennial passing leader) D. Brees- 2nd rd (see A. Rodgers) R. Wilson - 3rd rd Eli Manning- 1st overall ( 2 SB) B. Roethlisberger - 1st rd, 11th overall P. Rivers- 1st- 4th overall (no even sure if he has even had a playoff appearance) So to answer your qwery, the way to find a "franchise" QB, is to first build a solid team and develop one slowly ala Big Ben, Flacco, Brady, Aikman. This notion of the "franchise" QB is a misnomer, imo...it's more or less find a QB and tailor your system to his strengths. While the data show where the current franchise QBs were drafted, the rest is a massive oversimplification . There is no slowly developing a QB in most cases. Occasionally a late bloomer emerges a la Alex Smith. A Rodgers only sat because Green Bay waited patiently for Favre to retire/ unretire for years. Roethlisberger started his rookie year. In year 2 PIT won the Super Bowl. Flacco was an immediate starter, as was Aikman. The notion of a " franchise QB" is NOT a misnomer. We all know which guys in the NFL are franchise. They are simply on another level than the others. Those QBs are rare. Some QBs are so good, they really don't have major weaknesses. They just get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPbillsfan Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 On 3/17/2018 at 2:46 PM, joesixpack said: Lamar Jackson is not win win it’s all lose Lamar Jackson in my opinion has the greatest upside of all this years draft class. His skill set, experience under center and working in a pro-style offense in college makes him ready to challenge for a starting role this fall. Plus there is a very high probability he will be available with the 12th pick. This leaves the Bills with 5 more picks in the first two days of the draft. This is in my opinion the best way to build the team into a championship contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, RPbillsfan said: Lamar Jackson in my opinion has the greatest upside of all this years draft class. His skill set, experience under center and working in a pro-style offense in college makes him ready to challenge for a starting role this fall. Plus there is a very high probability he will be available with the 12th pick. This leaves the Bills with 5 more picks in the first two days of the draft. This is in my opinion the best way to build the team into a championship contender. And when, not if, jackson busts...how much closer are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 23 minutes ago, joesixpack said: And when, not if, jackson busts...how much closer are we? If he busts? The Bills are probably near the top of the draft at some point in the near future and can take a highly touted QB . With just a single draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp on da' net Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 31 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: While the data show where the current franchise QBs were drafted, the rest is a massive oversimplification . There is no slowly developing a QB in most cases. Occasionally a late bloomer emerges a la Alex Smith. A Rodgers only sat because Green Bay waited patiently for Favre to retire/ unretire for years. Roethlisberger started his rookie year. In year 2 PIT won the Super Bowl. Flacco was an immediate starter, as was Aikman. The notion of a " franchise QB" is NOT a misnomer. We all know which guys in the NFL are franchise. They are simply on another level than the others. Those QBs are rare. Some QBs are so good, they really don't have major weaknesses. They just get the job done. Thanks for making my case...I listed the franchise QB's and you so eloquently supported my assertion. The notion of the franchise QB doesn't depend upon where they were drafted but the result of their play on the field. Being a top overall pick in itself doesn't make you a franchise player. I will attest that any organization with the top pick will expect that player to be an impact type/ franchise player but that's only in theory. B. Roethelisberger indeed started in his rookie year but he was NOT the focal point of the offense. It was a strong running game w/ playaction strategically used situationally also supported by a top ranked defense. (Supported by an existing strong cast) T. Aikman was also supported by a strong running game & dominant defense...he even spoke of how simple his offensive system was design by the OC. (system designed to fit the QB skill set) A. Rodgers sat & learned and developed into a franchise QB- (Fact regardless of your reasons) Also, Alex Smith was a #1 overall pick. Do you consider him a franchise QB? When I think "franchise" QB, I think of a player that has separated himself from the pact and has taken his franchise to an elite level. We clearly have different criteria... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaista2k Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 hour ago, pimp on da' net said: I will indulge you just for shacks & gaggles. If the only way to obtain a "franchise" QB were by drafting in the top 3 picks I would agree with you. Trade everything for that guy but this crop of prospects are more hype than substance, IMO. They can very easily be this draft: RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL TEAM 1 1 Tim Couch QB Kentucky Cleveland Browns 1 2 Donovan McNabb QB Syracuse Philadelphia Eagles 1 3 Akili Smith QB Oregon Cincinnati Bengals 1 11 Daunte Culpepper QB Central Florida Minnesota Vikings 1 12 Cade McNown QB UCLA Chicago Bears 2 50 Shaun King QB Tulane Tampa Bay Buccaneers 3 77 Brock Huard QB Washington Seattle Seahawks 4 101 Joe Germaine QB Ohio State St. Louis Rams 4 131 Aaron Brooks QB Virginia Green Bay Packers 5 151 Kevin Daft QB California-Davis Tennessee Titans 7 227 Michael Bishop QB Kansas State New England Patriots 7 239 Chris Greisen QB Northwest Missouri State Arizona Cardinals 7 245 Scott Covington QB Miami (Fla.) Cincinnati Bengals What do you consider a "franchise" QB? One who gets a team to the ultimate prize (Lombardi Trophy)? Or a QB who has great regular season numbers but the team is meh? Here some info for you...in the last decade of the QB drafted in the 1st rd, only 1 has won a SB (Flacco, drafted 18th overall '08). List of consensus "franchise" QB currently in the NFL ; T. Brady- 6th rd (multi SB winner) A. Rodgers - 1st rd, 24th overall ( SB winner & perennial passing leader) D. Brees- 2nd rd (see A. Rodgers) R. Wilson - 3rd rd Eli Manning- 1st overall ( 2 SB) B. Roethlisberger - 1st rd, 11th overall P. Rivers- 1st- 4th overall (no even sure if he has even had a playoff appearance) So to answer your qwery, the way to find a "franchise" QB, is to first build a solid team and develop one slowly ala Big Ben, Flacco, Brady, Aikman. This notion of the "franchise" QB is a misnomer, imo...it's more or less find a QB and tailor your system to his strengths. You seem exactly like the type of GM that has been running the Bills for the the last 20 years.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 How could the jets not know all our plans, they are so clearly laid out here on TBD. Why would they take away our ideal draft partner? Not Fair! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp on da' net Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Klaista2k said: You seem exactly like the type of GM that has been running the Bills for the the last 20 years.... ...and you guys assume that Beane takes the responsibility for all those GM before his tenure. Its foolish to overpay for a prospect just because some in the fan base has taken the stance that the future QB has to be one of the top 3 picks this year. I'm glad Beane alluded to sticking to the value they have placed on the prospects in the draft. The "hype" machine is always in play at this time of the year. Trust the process! Edited March 19, 2018 by pimp on da' net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaista2k Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 5 hours ago, pimp on da' net said: ...and you guys assume that Beane takes the responsibility for all those GM before his tenure. Its foolish to overpay for a prospect just because some in the fan base has taken the stance that the future QB has to be one of the top 3 picks this year. I'm glad Beane alluded to sticking to the value they have placed on the prospects in the draft. The "hype" machine is always in play at this time of the year. Trust the process! Yes it's foolish to avoid trading up to get the most important position in all of pro sports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Klaista2k said: Yes it's foolish to avoid trading up to get the most important position in all of pro sports It is if you don't think the guy you get is good enough to be the guy for 10 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 In the last 20 years, there are as many hits as misses on taking a QB in the first round. If the Bills stand at 12, they might get a QB that does not have the hype but can be successful as a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Didn't screw us but that made the #2 pick more expensive. To look at this positively, it made draft day more exciting because now I believe the Bills won't make a move until that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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